I think it comes down to this:

1. More staff and more importantly more staff openness, I used to BRAG about Subeta staff being so helpful, straightforward about issues, and even being involved in the community. I'd love to have that feeling back once again, not saying it's completely gone but communication from staff is less frequent now than before. I'm not saying every second or hour post a status update but more frequently would be great. If users know and can SEE progress being made, it's easier on the mind.

2. Status page being easier to find, why not also take a bit of FRs thing and put a status box on the front of the page that gets updated regularly and fast, or better yet take advantage of the notification system and do a site-wide event saying a short blurb about the issues.

3. MORE MAINTENANCE, this cannot be stressed enough. The 502/504 errors wont be driving me away anytime soon (if ever) I have seen the online users jump from 700 to 900 lately, so that's impressive, however that's also due to events being around not just wanting to be on daily. This stuff definitely needs fixed and pronto (I know it is not going to always be easy and issues cannot easily be found), there was stuff about a new coder being hired at some point, any updates on that? People have suggested getting a kickstarter or something going to hire a new temp coder if it was needed, why not touch upon this if it's hard to find one? Maybe the extra money would open up options.

4. If money is becoming an issue, which I am not sure due to not knowing specifics, why not add more features to the gold accounts that make it even more worth while on owning one? Like make a special shop of stuff that cannot be resold that is only purchasable by being a GA and it's immediately locked to the account? Idk, I'm just spouting off whatever comes to mind atm.

Pretty much this all breaks down to more staff needed, more information coming out, and more maintenance. I don't care if this site goes down every night/week/month just for routine maintenance, at least I know it's being worked on. I don't think many users at all would mind it but rather see it as a PLUS.

I've seen subeta go through a lot, both as staff and as a user. It's true that the issues surrounding the site right now are small when you compare it to the DDos attacks and hacking back in the heyday and I still vividly remember that considering I was a UA back then. This does indeed seem pretty small in comparison.

In regards to how much an app would cost, I actually looked up initial costs out of curiosity and there's no possible way subeta would have that much to fuel the initial costs. That's assuming they hire a third party programmer, and third party company and not say, a freelancer which could initially drop the costs quite a bit I assume, but could also be pretty risky. The revenue costs I found to even create an app was costing in the 100-200 thousands at the low end for initial development costs. I'm not a programmer, so maybe this article is exaggerating, but if that's the average low end cost of how much it takes to create an app then I seriously doubt Subeta even has the revenue to even considering making a mobile app currently. There's also the simple fact that there's no guarantee subeta would even make back those costs if they released an app in the first place so if they don't recoup costs that means they lost 100-200k for just the initial development costs without breaking even.

For reference this was the article I used. app costs.

Honestly, the site is working fine for me right now. I haven't had 502/504 errors since the update so I'm fine right now though.

The thing is, when you compare subeta to a lot of other pet sites it actually is a pretty transparent site. I've gone on pet sites, and no, not just the dreaded neo where there's very little communication at all from the staff so the fact that the subeta staff is even willing to acknowledge there is a problem and finding a means to fix it is is pretty good, overall.

and

Sophie, you mean the site won't be around when I'm 70. That seems so far away. I can't even imagine what I'd be like when I'm that old. ;-;.

Nah, but seriously, realistically I know that it's pretty rare for ANY site to last that long. The fact that there's been a dwindling pet site market in general and that subeta is still around is testament to at least its current lasting power anyway.

• Downtime announced on 9/29
• No official reminders after that
• Not a single mention of the downtime on either Facebook or Twitter
• The status site has not been updated since 9/30
• Just over 500 players online last night at the time of the maintenance, who were not given any of the updates we were promised
• The only official update came 9 hours after the maintenance ended, and promised more information to follow
• 12 hours later, and we haven't had any kind of followup

Just in case anyone still doesn't understand why we're harping on staff about communication.

you're lucky then!

Yesterday (after the update) it was impossible to do anything. Questing - 504/502 - refereshing to go to the shops 504/502

The 504s and 502s keep getting up, WHENEVER I try to acsess my shop

• means - filling, pricing, removing things from them not to talk about the autopricer which takes like 10 times before it even starts loading....

It got better after a while - but as for me yesterday was a lost day due to restocking and questing, because every refresh meant 504/502 and that was AFTER the fix.

How many times do your customers have to say "we WANT the update even if it essentially says the problem isn't 100% over" before you believe it?

I assume it might of been timing. I didn't get on until afternoon so it's very possible I missed most of the initial issues. That said I haven't had 592/504 errors since I came on in the afternoon yesterday, knock on wood.

I'm not saying the site is better 100% because it isn't. I'm still getting some lag, but not the errors I've been constantly getting recently though.

Do you seriously not get it? The thing that most people have been complaining about is the lack of communication. I don't care so much that there will still be errors as long as you TELL US THAT and let us know that you're still working on it.

This latest update post was good, so thank you for that. But it could have come a bit earlier, and like said why don't you update the Status Site more often if that's where you keep telling us to look?

I'm more willing to put up with errors when I at least know what's going on.

I agree completely. It does not matter how small the updates are or whether or not there's really anything to update us on. But when the site is having such major ongoing issues there should be regular posts about what's being done and whether or not there's been any kind of progress. Silence from staff for weeks+ from staff while users are begging for scraps does nothing for morale.

Dear

You are an intelligent man. I shouldn't have to point out to you why it was worth posting, thankfully did, but you appear to have glossed over it.:

• Downtime announced on 9/29
• No official reminders after that
• Not a single mention of the downtime on either Facebook or Twitter
• The status site has not been updated since 9/30
• Just over 500 players online last night at the time of the maintenance, who were not given any of the updates we were promised
• The only official update came 9 hours after the maintenance ended, and promised more information to follow
• 12 hours later, and we haven't had any kind of followup

Just in case anyone still doesn't understand why we're harping on staff about communication.

Clear enough?

Why is it so important to read that there are still errors in a post with a red border, when you're experiencing those errors. The communication is there, it doesn't need to be a constant feed of yup still working on it, we're doing our best sorry. What would change for the better if more time was spent simply saying "we're still going to have errors"? The amount of responses and the information within them are more than users need to know really, considering any more would be technical information that's useless if you're not helping with the work yourself. What else do you want to hear?... Other than it's fixed? Again, if it's that you don't truly believe it's being worked on then I guess there's nothing to say to that... but it clearly is being worked on...

Why is it important for staff to do what they say they are going to do? Because customers will be more supportive of a business that they feel that they can trust.

Example of a good PR team with good communication? look at Blizzard, look at their tweets, patch notes, etc. DDoS, maintenance, updates, problems. It gets posted. Doesnt have to be extensive. But it HAS to be there.

Im sure Keith is familiar with agile development; among many other things, it covers continuous improvement and efficient communication. The idea is that you provide feedback which regulates your movement forward (in essence, focus on what the customers what). It also ensures that what the customers want, are still what they want (e.g. ideas, concepts change over time which is main argument against the "waterfall").

I'm not against being positive and supportive. (eg one thing i like being done is showing us graphs and data that makes sense and isnt just there to obfuscate, or seeding the 3.5 Wardrobe to some people out there.)

But ultimately, there's a difference between constructive vs blind criticism or support.

Also, Agoge/Subeta is not Blizzard/Wow. If Subeta's Status page looked more like this you'd be able to get away with communicating like Blizzard does.

It's not so much that we need to be told there will still be errors since we're still getting them (in this case). But it is nice to know what the maintenance actually did accomplish, especially when there are still errors after doing the maintenance. Yes we got an update, but it took a while of waiting before we did. The status site wasn't even updated until today, well after the maintenance was complete.

Which is mainly my point. I don't necessarily need staff to comment in this particular thread with the admin flair, but the least they could do is put something on the status site since that's where keeps telling us to check.

It just doesn't feel like that site is particularly useful when it takes a week to actually put anything on there and every day just says "No incidents reported." It feels like it's not being utilized as effectively as it could be.

I've still been enjoying all of the new items and content, and the plot and everything. But communication is a two way street. I know we (the users) don't have a problem making our frustrations heard, but sometimes the staff response just feels like an afterthought instead of a genuine effort to keep us informed. That's all.

Honestly I wasn't aware it was said there'd be a reminder beforehand, but I spose that's been addressed now.

I agree up to the point where it's already been communicated as such, and nothing's changed but people still want to hear things repeated. Subeta doesn't have the staff or resources Blizzard does... Staff acknowledges problems, even often says what they plan to do to fix them, and afterwards what didn't work and what the plan is going forward. That's plenty enough...

The thing is though, is it isn't repetition. If I hadn't made this board, would we know that the maintenance didn't fix problem A but alerted to problem B, that the downtime actually DID help even though it's initial goal (fixing the errors) wasn't accomplished, or that Keith had a phone call into somewhere that helped him out and set up a graph for him to monitor better than just XXX has a problem? Chances are pretty high that we wouldn't.

Instead, we would still be sitting here, after this downtime that was SPECIFICALLY FOR FIXING THE ERRORS, still getting errors, mad as hell. This is why people leave the site. This is why people take extended hiatuses. That lack of communication DOES lead to a loss of income, which the site obviously needs to keep going.

You're right, we don't need every single move being done behind the scenes. But because of this thread, I now know and understand that MongoDB is only used by the wardrobe, and that's why (besides other reasons) it's the priority now. getting it up and running without Mongo WILL MOST LIKELY HELP THE SITE OVERALL. Without this information, I would sit here and think, 'wtf is the wardrobe being focused on when the site is falling apart!' because I had no idea this was part of the issue.

So, despite how badly you think we know enough, Mike, we don't. There is no such thing as too much information, and every update on this thread has been beyond helpful.