This pretty much nails my thoughts on it too. I'm well-acquainted with chubby cheeks on a round jawline, but I think the shading and the fact that part of her bangs are layered behind her cheek are making them look swollen. It also feels like there's a couple of alignment issues with the face and the muscles around her trachea.

That said though, the old Shinwa bothered me and I'm happy for the revamp when I do her quests. I also admire the fact that Subeta is branching out in terms of body types and ethnicity, even if there are certain traits that I liked better being edited out sometimes. The older NPCs are finally starting to become more discernible from one another aside from different hair and clothes.

I don't understand people calling her curvy? She's not. She's a size 8, maximum. She just has thicker arms, and a rounder face. Cover those up, and she has an incredibly average size torso.

Shinwa no longer looks like a goddess. She looks ordinary and un-beautiful.

Also

[edit]

Lol. Who is Boobs McGee?

Honestly the comments that she doesn't look godly or beautiful anymore make me think people would be very disappointed in many of the classical painting portrayals of greco-roman godesses.

Wow! I really love your edit of Shinwa's revamp! I wish your version was the actual revamp! The lack of definition in her face, specifically around her cheeks and nose is the main reason I can't completely love this revamp! I do agree that Shinwa would look more realistic with a darker skin tone! I'd actually love to see her hair color darkened to a dark auburn as well, similar to what you've done in your edit as it would fit the character nicely!

Still can't get past the immediate reaction to being confronted with the revamp of her character every time I do her quests, but maybe eventually her revamp will grow on me more. At least her clothes are perfectly fabulous!

Once again knocked it out of the park with the subtle changes. But, uh.. I still don't understand why all female characters need to be what is currently seen as "beautiful." Yep she's a goddess. Yep she's a big deal character. No she doesn't need to be eye candy for the website and I don't see why that's bad.

(edited because I left out "need" and it was bugging me)

I just want to be sure that in an effort to celebrate nontraditional beauty we remember that there are those who do have and identify with traditional beauty (I am not one of them, for the record; I actually look a bit like Shinwa or Esther) and don't eradicate or unintentionally shame them?

Maybe it's personal. My mother does this sometimes without thinking. She sees skinny girls in catalogs and automatically assumes it's photoshop or they're starving themselves, and I feel for the girls who look like that naturally because jealousy, insecurity, ignorance, and/or misguided self-pride shouldn't move us to REDEFINE the status quo except to say there isn't one because we are all unique-- including the ones that are regarded as "traditionally beautiful" right now.

I hate seeing majorities being pooped on JUST because they are the majority. By revamping a character likes this (or too many in a row if a trend grows), I feel like a message starts being sent that traditional beauty isn't beautiful, and IMO that shouldn't be the intention. It's a subtle but important difference.

Thank you! Exactly my opinion. I´m a big girl (means: REALLY big! X´D) and I like chubby characters. But I also like thin ones. And diversity means not different kinds of chubby/fat bodyshapes but ALL bodyshapes. I probably like Yumiko the most at the moment. She is old and (almost sickly) thin.
And I really hope Subeta will have some thin, traditionally beautiful characters left, when they are done.

Thank you ^^ just personally, I feel like her current colour palette makes her blend in too much with the white background, but that's a personal thing. Well Rah says they're taking a second look at her, so we'll see what they decide is worth changing.

As someone who doesn't find typical western beauty attractive... I'm so happy to see some diversity XD Shinwa is a powerful woman, that's good enough for me.

@ the general 'why change an established character' feelings.

I actually think it's both important and NEEDED that we take a look at the site's older characters and reconsider their role with the site. Blackmoon is obsolete, his story doesn't fit with current lore. Malaria makes NO SENSE in respect to her setting. Shinwa and Malaria are very much connected.

A lot of the older NPCs just don't fit in with the current lore and feel of Subeta, yes it's a shame to say goodbye to familiar faces, but I'd much rather have Shinwa leveled and rebuilt from the ground up to actually be a part of the site in design at least, than just keeping her stagnant for the sake of nostalgia.

IMO she now looks like the human-like Goddess she was always supposed to be, in a setting that isn't typically Western. Saherimos has a very Greek/Roman feel to it, with some Middle Eastern/Turkish in the mix, if this is a site on Subeta where humans who don't identify with the Western feel congregated, (presuming humans are still travelers who came here), then it makes sense that their lore and gods and ideas reflect their own ideals. Not a high fantasy elfin fae goddess, but the Athenas and Heras of the world.

If this means staff are rethinking how they're bringing the lore of the whole world in line, it's got my support.

That's encouraging to hear, hopefully they'll take your edit into consideration as well. Overall, I really do quite like her revamp, I just don't like her face/head portion. However, I do greatly appreciate how they revamped the character overall, making her look more like an actual human-like Goddess.

I think it is important not to shame those who are that traditionally beautiful ideal but I am cautiously hopeful that diversifying the image of beauty will be additive. Hopefully it will simply celebrate all different pictures of beauty while not becoming vindictive towards the one traditionally presented in society. I should disclose that I do fit the traditional body image considered "ideal" and while I dont want to be shamed for it, this site is a very small microcosm and society at large would still reinforce my body image even if this site lacked characters like that.

And I get where you're coming from on that. My mom is the opposite and has dieted all her life and makes rude comments about people who are not thin which I reprimand her for. I really do think a movement towards saying we're all unique and dont need a beauty standard is better than a redefining of a status quo but for now this is the first step. Currently those who are not the ideal are not on equal footing to start that. I think we need more diverse representation before people start believing that a beauty standard is archaic altogether.

I dont know if that trend will send that message to be honest. While others may take the chance to make comments like "yay for ditching gross starved characters" I believe the movement itself isn't saying traditional western beauty is no longer desireable. Being more inclusive isn't really an attack on the original ideal for me I guess.

Also I think it's important to add that while the body type is different and important, the thing I think is best about the Oracle and Shinwa revamps are the facial features that are less western which really better matches the lore.

Once again you're spot on imo. Many NPCs needed changes and these changes reflect a movement towards a culturally diverse Subeta (the actual planet rather than the players). Shinwa and the Oracle now do genuinely fit the feel of Saherimos better (which I agree seems like a middle eastern greco-roman mix) with clothing and features that match that fusion.

I'm also really in favor of them rethinking NPCs larger lore and role in subeta to match the cooler diverse world picture they painted by defining distinct regional peoples and cultures.

-general note- Additionally, doing this has made the NPCs recognizable and distinct from one another in a way they often werent before. I think the artists should be encouraged to continue that trend in revamps so it really feels like we have a multitude of important characters and not stock ones that a wig and change of clothes could reproduce.

Okay, first off everyone saying that she's bloated in the face and has an allergic reaction thing is on point. But those saying that she's fat are a symptom of the larger arms and the swelled looking face. is spot on with saying that she's actually quite thin, or at least average. Alakazam:

That being said, it is interesting that as Shalashaska said that this may be trying to streamline characters so that they fit into the story line. Further as people were saying in the comment section on the news post was that Shinwa is typically vain etc.

Now here is where I have a problem. I do think a more traditionally beautiful look would be proper for this character more than the others. She for me fits the valley girl stereotype quite nicely. She is quite vain, she constantly loses her shit and you constantly have to find it for her, she has nice fuzzy pink sofas, and with Merana she was all talk and no game.

And here is where I think has a strong point, we should be opting for inclusion and variety of beauty norms rather than exclusion and changing the status quo completely. It is similar to anarchists overthrowing power and then realizing they have become the new power themselves.

That being said it would be awesome to have a chubbier character that fits the ditsy stereotype, or another feature that beacons originality, but this personality is not coming across well enough in this design. Before she looked like a bit of a ditz yes, and I think that suited her imho.

When I first saw it.. I thought it was Pete wearing a Shinwa wig. She looks so much like a man now.. I can't stand to look at her picture anymore. No she's not fat.. I like the curvy looks that have been being drawn.. but something just isn't right. :/

Ehhh I dont buy the valley girl personification or the idea of her being this amazing traditionally beautiful character. The lore says she is "considered by many Subetans to be the personification of all that is pure and good" and while it is harmful to assume that a stunning model faced makeup-done character isn't pure, most depictions of "pure" have soft simple features not usually consistent with media beauty. Also she claims herself as the most beautiful of the gods but honestly I think she is more conceited in thinking she is some amazing protector when she isnt. She seems more like a character who thinks she is more important than she is which you find in people regardless of appearance.

Also anarchists overthrow the existing order and replace it with none (or theirs) whereas adding more character variety is not ousting traditional western beauty. Ousting it like the anarchists would either be saying "there is no objective beauty whatsoever" or replacing the established one with one consistent depiction rather than varied conglomeration.

And her old art had a vacant expression that wasn't really ditzy so much as it was empty. This new one looks like she's really pleased with either a witty comment she made or at a thought the had (either condescending or not). And in general she just has this look of flippant self assurance (undeserved imo) to her new design that is pretty consistent with:

Yes--she recalled themselves as school children. Bright. Hard-working. Gifted in magic. Oh, magic, that delicious, deadly fruit. Shinwa had always followed the righteous path, the light magic. The lure of dark magic was for the weak-hearted, and only the weak-hearted answered its call. That, of course, was Maleria. She had always been the weak one.[/quote]

[quote=]Civilians had been evacuated long ago, and now all that was left was Shinwa and her fighters--and the mind-slaves Maleria had harnessed with her obscene powers. Rumors darted around that they weren't slaves at all, but willing servants--yet Shinwa could not bring herself to believe that.

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/moon_huntress/Gifs/Facepalm.gif[/IMG]

I'm getting Malaria revamp flashbacks now...

EDIT: I can't get to stop going double, what the fiddlesticks.

It looks great, but I'm confused on the difference of the new revamp shinwa. Can someone post the other revamped shinwa and the new one?