Making Pinging Easier!
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mysterious email subscriptions are exactly what has me so testy about this new proposed method. i somehow got onto a mailing list for a new mexico political campaign a while back (to this day i do not understand how or why), and it took way, way to much for me to get off the mailing list. the thought of reliving the struggle with someone's art thread has me breaking out in cold sweats.
Ah no, when I mean having denial/dates information on an individual page, I mean something like we currently have for displaying items we submitted. Like it'd be an entirely different page on the system that we could access regardless of owning a shop or not -- but it definitely makes more sense if the shop's "admin only" section held the information about batches sold within the shop. XD
I think it would be nicer to sort by tags and then, within the tag, either be able to pick between "alphabetical", "timeline" or "custom order", similar to what we do with our pets on the pets page maybe! This is getting more complicated, but xD if I had to pick only one way I'd pick timeline, most recolors are submitted somewhat "together" so I think that'd be more helpful.
Maybe there could be an "items archive" page, so it doesn't clutter the front one? x:
We could still have a CS link that, once clicked, opened a page with the direct CS links for the owners xD Or, what might be even better, opened a page with all the owners' CS items listed, and a "buy" link for direct purchasing. ^^;
Sorry for any incomplete thoughts/grammar issues....it's been a busy few week full of quizzes/exams/memorizing chaucer passages, etc...my brain is pretty much dead ahahaha
Also just as a general idea to everyone I think it'd be a great idea to have the artist's name listed next to the items being released in the shop C:
I have to disagree, I think people signing themselves up is the best option…I mean if that wasn’t used we’d get what? around 30+ mails/comments/notes/etc, on an average item, so that we can then manually add everyone in like we do now, except not in a forum setting where everything is laid out clearly. Plus I’ve filled 10 batches on one item before, I really don’t want 100 messages sitting in an inbox all asking for a slot….I’d claw my eyes out lolol
I realize this might cause a problem for people who don’t want to offer items to certain people, BUT there’d still be the CW submission page that’s already there. So people could continue releasing private items. They wouldn’t have to add all their items in the shop system for people to buy. Yes they would have to mail/comment/ping people individually though, but that’s how it’ll work anyway. Keith is telling us he NEEDS to get rid of ping groups so the site can work better/not lag as much. So if I understand correctly we’ll have to do all the manual pings/mails/comments anyway. It was suggested that people use the subscription feature on the ping group thread…if that was implemented we’d still have the same problem as we do with this.
-stares at your post-
my eyes just went cross xP
But yeah I agree with what you said….you put it better than I did ahahaha
oooooh I really like your mockups, I LOOOVE your news thread idea! I think that'll make the shop, so much better!!
I’d suggest not having items that are closed though…once they’ve reached their batch limit they should go to a retired cw section…like a master list, that just has the item image and not image + overlay. We don’t want it getting really messy and heavy like the CW’s You’ve Submitted Section of the site. Many users have far too many items for that to work DX Although if they’re subject to re-release maybe have a separate section for that? Idk
I also think shop rules become…obsolete since almost all shop rules involve be polite etc etc etc, and there’s no contact with the owner/buyer anymore.
ahhhh Idk if it’d be a good idea to have different types of item sections like that…I mean we’d still have the current submission area for private cws….but for blacklisting people…it’s a bit extreme. I personally don’t have people blacklisted, as I’m fine with anyone buying so long as they pay me. Granted maybe my view is a bit different than most…Idk DX
I can foresee it causing a lot of issues with a blacklist feature, plus users can just ask their friends to buy for them…it’d be very easy to get around this, especially since it’s not really face to face like the forums.
I like the idea a users signing themselves up for slots.
Maybe have it so if a user was willing to pay right then for their slot then they would be immediately accepted into the batch, if you didn't want to pay it would have to be approved by the shop owner(s)? EDIT: This would stop people from claiming slots when they have no csc, which holds up the queue for those of us that pay on time.
You could also do this with interest/preview/upcoming items (if a buyer shows interest in buying an item that the shop owner is previewing they would be able to pre-claim a slot at that time (and maybe pay for it), if the owner opens an "interest batch".
I LOVE. YOUR. MOCKUPS. as a CW creator/seller i would love to have both a space to present items and a space for news posts, too - that way it can function just like a thread!
another thing i'd like is a fully-customizable shop front page, where i can put my own graphics and such, to make it unique c: maybe have a front page that can show latest news and latest items as well as a customizable text box for an intro and such?
no but seriously - 's and 's mockups are exactly what we need, and definitely with a "follow" function similar to dA or other art sites.
people can pick and choose to follow/subscribe to updates for:
- new items
- items closing availability
- new news posts
another idea is to have the user be able to "promote" people to another group kind of like preclaims - i know subeta doesnt have a rule about private CWs but sometimes i like my friends to be able to claim slots on things first, so something that would allow me to do that would be nice C:
anyway - I LOVE THIS SO MUCH. i really do. but one request i would have is to make sure it goes through heavy testing before we demolish ping groups, yes?
that combined with the other thread-subscription-esque idea would allow me to use this storefront to sell CWs, a separate thread for CW commissions, and a second thread for non-CW art that i sell. it would indeed eliminate a need for three of my ping groups (my general art/cw group, my privates/preclaims group, and my CW commission slot group).
in closing (wow this post is so disjointed im so sorry hahah), i firmly believe (as i said in the other thread in feedback) that the only way to fix pinging and forum groups is to transform how we do commerce in subeta, particularly regarding CWs.
- I agree with you on some points, and shops with a follow option would definitely make things easier, but I worry that any notices can be just as abused as ping groups are. I love the suggestion from about a news page though that you can ping anyone following when there is legit new stuff. But again, some people already heavily abuse the ping groups so I would be wary of getting a notice daily (or multiple times a day) for the same thing.
Another thought is to clear out ping groups that are inactive for 13 months and also clearing ping groups of frozen users. Accounts are cleared if they're frozen for 1 year or inactive for the same period - at that point, if there isn't another admin in the group that ownership can be transferred to, I think the group should be automatically cleared. It would reduce the number of ping groups on the site by quite a bit.
I had another thought but my brain ate it, so I'll be back when I can remember what I was going to talk about haha.
I DO LOVE BOTH SETS OF MOCK-UPS THOUGH!
[edit] I REMEMBERED: How do I allow people into a ping group now? I have received 2 admin messages about people wanting to join a group I am an admin of that has controlled membership and when I click the link to go to approve/deny, there is no way to view who is waiting to join!
I also cannot invite people into my private friends group any longer. There are some very important features missing from groups at this time. I understand they are going to change, but those two features need to be put back in please.
Another thought is to clear out ping groups that are inactive for 13 months and also clearing ping groups of frozen users. Accounts are cleared if they&;re frozen for 1 year or inactive for the same period - at that point, if there isn&;t another admin in the group that ownership can be transferred to, I think the group should be automatically cleared. It would reduce the number of ping groups on the site by quite a bit.
I mentioned something like this in the other thread. It seems like a reasonable thing to do. I can't vouch for do-ability though. Can anyone versed in the coding world touch on this?
Do-ability....Is that even a proper word?
yeah X_X I had thought of people abusing the follow feature, but I figured since it would be similar to how ping groups operate people can always unfollow if it annoys them enough. I know I've left plenty of groups due to that reason. Maybe there could be a limit to how many times you can alert someone to your shop having items? Idk. I can say for sure...I wouldn't follow certain people's shops because it's just far too annoying to get that many events for the same stuff lol
I happen to agree with that point, and wondered why it wasn't implemented! I personally think, deleting old ping groups that are no longer used, would help with the lag a lot, but if we're still required to only be in a limited amount of groups I fear we'll still have the same issues DX
Oh gosh, it's been ages since I last approved someone, it USED to be, at least in the old ping groups, that there'd be a small check next to their name...and you'd just click that. But if there isn't one there....maybe it's a new glitch?? ....lol so we can't invite people anymore? well this doesn't bode well
I thought I'd seen something similar but couldn't remember and wanted to make sure it ended up here too.
Yeah - that's the biggest issue I see too. I honestly thing ping groups could benefit from some of them having more options (like the rules pertaining to buysellcw - if that was officially enforced by the group ping system itself where you couldn't ping any sooner than 3 days after your last ping). But how to implement it with coding is the major question on that.
Yeah - there's nothing showing pending people or an invite box - if groups are going to be limited they're going to be limited, but the functionality needs to still work. I didn't even notice when the new groups were still in beta - and this is definitely not going to work well without being able to invite or approve people =/
It's a very good thing you posted it. I would have never thought to bring it over here too.
Technically doability is not a word, but doable is. lol. Maybe they'll make it work one day. xD;;
They did have a little green check 'circle' on the person waiting to be approved to join a group, yes. I would double check the last page of whatever group it is and see if those people are even on the list and if the little checks are there. I remember having to approve people when I ran a cult, so I remember that.
apparently I'm long winded and hit char limit... edited and added spoiler to save space
Love the mock-ups guys! Very cool. I do agree a 'follow' and 'news feed' portion would be swell indeed. =3 I agree also that being able to customize our shops, like we do our pet pages, would also be pretty cool. At least with the shop front. Linking to the CS would be cool, but at the same time, if they implement this sort of thing... will the CS section still need to be available? Couldn't they- in theory- move that sort of option to the users individual shops instead?
Like, right now, they have the option of throwing something into the CS for 90 days (or indefinitely in unlimited). Could you just not simply remain the same and click an option for letting it show up as a purchasable item instead of a batch item once the first batch is through?
I would think that if the shop is set up this way- that the first batch is necessary to get the item approved on site, but after that, you can just check the box and say 'leave open for sale' and put how many copies are there. Like you see in subeta shops. Said item has 10 copies. That way it's not just indefinite number. But if you set it as unlimited and select to open it for sale after first batch, then there is no set number of copies until the owner decides to take it down for sale.
I do think there ought to be a retired option. Like the pages that show all our items (for ourselves) there should be a box that says "retire" so you can just take it off the market and the selection is permanent. Once you retire it, it's done.
I do understand the idea of Closing vs. Retiring for those that like to release certain items during holidays. So you could close the sale of the item for like, Morostide for example, and then next year, open it again to sell. That could be an option- but just like anything else you might find people abusing it, though it will be a lot easier for staff to track incidences of scamming if it showed up in the coding directly (and not just because they said it on the forums).
I totally agree there ought to be a limit on how often you can 'ping' for interest. I do not like seeing people ping a group (esp when they're not suppose to and they know it) for the same item. There should be an option that like, say, you have your news feed, but it doesn't ping anyone if you're only editing it for like grammar or spelling errors, but you have to check a box sorta like how comments currently have the option to ping friends you get 'ping subscribers'. I would imagine it would work the same for posting in the forums where as the individual user can turn off notifications for a subscription (but still get pinged via group or individual pings)- this option is given to the admin of the shop, to turn off pinging while they're doing edits or something.
Just a thought.
Also- as some might realize, some of the ping groups are designed to alert people of when the shop is selling something made by a certain artist. For example, I see pings and titles a lot for Cathii's work, but it's not her shop, but others selling a commission they got from her. So perhaps there would be a way to allow people to put in who the cw was designed by. They can say themselves (or it says their username at least)- or they select it's a commission and put in the user that made it. So if there'd be a way to add in at least a way to show a sub-title under the shop name, or the news feed can show on the front page, at least a title of some kind the way people do so now, so to advertise in like "New item by for sale!", you know?
I know the idea of building/coding shops for cws like this would be difficult, but I think it would be beneficial and would definitely eliminate the need for probably 85% of the ping groups. lol.
"Error: This post is too long, the character limit is 6,000 characters." Heh... Oops! O.O Since I can't post twice in a row and I have more to say.... waits for someone to post so she can continue
I only suggested that thing about making ping groups a perk for GA's to see if that would help with lag at all, or if it wouldn't change a thing. I was thinking about it later and realized it would still create a lag because regardless of if you paid for it, it'd still be making the server work too hard with how the coding is set up. So yeah. C:
Unrelated to cws.... Pings are used obviously for more than just those. There are also cults and roleplaying and art sellers who utilize ping groups to alert people of certain information. When I ran a cult, we had several different kinds of pings for different things. At first we had a general cult ping, until we realized that our members didn't always check the ping because they assumed it was news they didn't care about. So we created a few others, including an irc ping, contest ping and the like. So we could ping everyone for more specific reasons. If we have subscription to thread be the only way to ping, then it could get irritating and people may find their subscribers check less often because a general ping isn't good enough. (And usually people don't change the titles all the time to give the info needed). I also don't like the idea to just tie it all in that anyone that posts to the thread ever gets a ping every time there's a new post. As was mentioned already, some people don't wish to get pings from a board they only went to once and don't intend to return to. And I would think it would create a huge lag on the system to make it an auto feature that if you post on a thread you will get pinged every new post. There are a lot of forums out there... o.o Perhaps for the forum thread owner, they could select from a dropdown menu different options, or something. Like they can create specific types of things subscribers could be pinged about... or something. I don't even know if that would be necessary or if people would like it. lol. I guess it's sorta like how Subeta has an alert for 'news' and 'announcement' to separate it for a little more clarification. So I'm just thinking something like that. I think someone suggested before that if you move the groups to the subscriptions only, as thread owner, you should have the option to see who is subscribed to the thread and maybe you can give the option to organize subscribers the way we can organize friends, like reg subscribers and friends only, or something? Giving access to a list would also be useful in giving the options for allowing another user to be able to ping that thread if they 'co-own' it... you know? This is esp useful for cult threads, because most large cults are run by more than one person because they can't do it all alone.
I also agree, I don't like the idea of a blacklist option (esp not a public one). I think it should simply be automatic in the system that if you put your name into a slot (I don't mind giving the user the ability to do that, but can perhaps only claim up to 2 slots at a time or something...?) and you don't pay after so much time, like let's say 72 hours or maybe only 48, that your name gets removed so people that don't have the csc don't up and hold it all up by not being able to pay. I do like the option of saying 'pay now' for the buyer tho too. That way they can pay the csc and it'll sit in the queue until the item is sold. They can of course, always 'cancel payment' just like they can now unless the item is in approval queue, just like now. If there ever was a blacklist option, it should only be visible to the shop owner and not to the whole of subeta, as I would think that'd be considered targeting.
k, now I'm done. lol.
We really need a more efficient way for selling cw's,I know of a popular cw seller who has so many things going on in her thread at one time that I can't tell if she is re-releasing old things,selling new things or if she is secretly selling camel hair to the hustler.
I have also noticed that the current system has led to a lot of hard feelings because sometimes people get overlooked and aren't slotted or their post won't show up or the cw releaser doesn't get a ping due to an error on their end.
An actual cw shop would make everything so much more organized,I do agree though that a limit would need to be set on how many times a person can be notified about new things in a person's shop...Say like we get max of 2 notifications every 48 hours or something...That would help a lot because right now I get the same person pinging me to the same thread for 5 different cw groups and they do it 2-3 times sometimes....That's 10-15 pings a day from ONE person.
I looked over some of 's ideas and they are fantastic,I know some people said they don't want a person to be able to just slot themselves in but what if we left the options open for what we want to do with slots...Maybe we could have the option to check a box when we go to put something in the shop so that way if we want it to be a personal cw we can select that option,if we want to open slots for users to sign up for on their own then we could select that or if we want to edit slots ourselves then we could have a button that a user clicks to send us a notification that they are requesting a slot for an item.
I know I would really love it if we could have the option for users to sign up for a cw but like others have said we would also need an option to reject their slot if we have had problems with the user not paying or whatever.
Or what if we did leave slots open entirely on cw's aside from possibly having a private option but you have to approve each slot before a person is actually signed up for it? It would simplify things because we would just be clicking a button and then the person's name would be added onto the batch list. That way no one goes on to an item batch list if we don't want them to.
Just kind of tossing things around here...I'm pretty tired so im sorry if I confuse anyone xD
they are discussing individual cw shops here,i thought maybe since you are always doing so much cw wise you might be able to offer input on what could be some good features for making a personal cw shop.
CW Release Shop [Url=https://subeta.net/user_shops.php/shop/24352/category/CW+For+Sale] Cw's for sale from my wardrobe[/url]
...I was just going to mention it but looks like you found it out xD Whenever you hit the character limit, just post part of your text / a "will edit" note and then edit with the whole content! Edits bypass the limitations c:
Or what if we did leave slots open entirely on cw&;s aside from possibly having a private option but you have to approve each slot before a person is actually signed up for it? It would simplify things because we would just be clicking a button and then the person&;s name would be added onto the batch list. That way no one goes on to an item batch list if we don&;t want them to.
i think this is something that will be absolutely necessary and also easy to implement in any CW-shop scenario. i am just very uncomfortable with not being able to control who buys certain items - i've never had to say no to anyone who wants to buy my CWs in my life, and i don't see myself having to, but the option is absolutely necessary to me - otherwise i'd just submit all my items to the cash shop. (not saying the cash shop is bad at all, i'm just saying that i personally like to have the option of having control over who gets my items - especially since i use my private group for preclaims. i like having my friends get first dibs on stuff i'm selling and a ping group makes it way easier than messaging them all individually, which brings me back to the point i made in my post on page 2 about having sub-groups that you can notify.)
edit:
this too!!!!!
I like the idea of having the ability to put the artist's name somewhere to get some more attention c:
About private items and preclaims, I think these could remain on the forums, without a problem. Especially if we could get the premade "on call" forum groups I mentioned before / easy subgroups within our own friend list / 's suggestion. In my mind, the shop is an easy interface to deal with the public, if the item isn't meant to be public at all... then it doesn't even need to be there x:
A "restricted" label would still be useful for items that your customers will still be able to claim, but will need to satisfy some requirements first (ex. items for frequent customers). c: But yeah I'm totally not thinking of "restricted" as private because private does not belong in any shop.
[edit]
Yeah, preclaims suppose the ability of being able to manually input usernames besides the ones of the people who "applied" for a slot. So we'd need that, too! Write the usernames and/or pull them from a queue ordered by time of claim. That'd be great.
[edit]
Edit again just to mention these "restricted" items for frequent customers wouldn't really need more code to make it happen; as a shop mod, I would check the people who applied for a slot and not pull those that didn't fit the requirements. n_n It'd just be a label for the sake of organization.
Hey guys, I think we're over complicating this. Private items and subgroup items shouldn't be staff's worries. Staff has already said they will not see private cws as private! Therefore it's not something staff will want to add, and might deter staff from wanting to make this option. If we DO get these shops, why can't we still ask friends about privates through mail/comment/skype/fb etc like we do now...there'll still be forums people can use as well. Plus, I don't think the use of these shops would be forced, therefore not all your items would have to go in it.
I don't really think restricted items, and choosing who can and cannot buy our items, is a good idea in these types of shops. It seems like something staff would frown down on as we'd be publicly banning people, which if I'm not mistaken is against subeta rules.
I am however all for choosing the limits on a batch count, maybe even having a timed release. Like the item can be in the shop for 24 hours or something...then it's retired.
Yeah - I dunno what happened there, but I posted on the bug board about groups being broken that way o_O
I hope ping groups don't go away completely. I really like the idea of the cw shops. I don't see too people many addressing how to replace ping groups for everything else though. I would have no idea how to to do that either. So I hope they can just stay! If the new shops idea is implemented hopefully that would be enough of a change that we could keep pings for everything else. :)
(Pinging you guys since you commented on this topic- ) The only thing I don't like about the proposed shops is the sign yourself up thing. And that is Only because if there are 20 other people trying to sign up at the same time it just sounds like it would be tricky to work out if you kept getting pushed out of your spot and having to resubmit over and over. (like trying to rs something in a shop and missing it but more frustrating since you can't see what's going on.) Maybe instead of showing all blank spaces it could just be one blank space or a box to click and submit to get your name added to the next available slot. There could also be another separate box to enter/check if you want to be on the next batch and not the first.
On that train of thought maybe you could use that for selling private stuff as well. You would have to submit your name and if your name isn't in the database then you get thrown out. But that would mean that either you would need some kind of functionality check box like 'favorites' that the submitter can check that will just load everything when that is used or they would have to enter stuff by hand. (i don't even know if that sounds like english I have no experience with the technical aspect.)