One of my main complainants about the site is the rampant inflation and the inability to drain SP out of the system. Quests are hugely profitable and drive billions into the system every day, however there are very few mechanisms other then maybe the Millionaire Center, the SP smelter the antique shop and users quitting out right to balance the flow of SP into the system. Limited stock shops such as the crystal shop, Token shop restocks balance both crystals and tokens, however there is no such tool to balance out SP. One of the main issues with the Millionaire Center and the antique shop is all the items are unlimited quantity, therefore there is no ability to ever turn a single SP profit on any of the items and therefore no incentive to buy. With a limited stock shop it would allow for profit to be made, but at the same time drain huge amounts of SP out of the system. Obviously this would have to be controlled similar to how it seems like the token shop restocks are, but this would begin to balance the insane SP bubble on the site.

Would it really work that well as an sP sink? Or would it just get people to hoard even more sP in order to catch something super nice from the Billionaire Center/buy the super nice items from users who got them from the BC restock.

[edit]Also lol @ quests pumping billions into the system. Sure, quests are the main way to make sP straight from the site so to speak, but I really doubt they're pumping billions into the system daily. Staff would've nerfed the payout if that was the case. You can make way more by being smart about restocking. I quest every day and I sell my items. Average earn per day is ~4-6m in sP and items for all questgivers done (including BB), with a GA. Not so sure that everyone who signs in to Subeta does all of their quests daily because quests are dull & free time is limited. I sincerely doubt that users like went from 10bil sP to 11bil sP in under 4 months just by questing daily.

This just feels a bit strange as a suggestion. An sP sink that's profitable so that some users can profit hugely from it instead of sinking their sP into it doesn't really sound like an sP sink.

This is a terrible idea.

Inflation is not the problem the OP thinks it is. None of us users is deeply aware of how the toy economy of Subeta works. The inner workings remains hidden and will always be unknown to us: this is on purpose. However much it may displease the OP staff does have the analytics that we users do not have, and they DO pay attention.

There is an 'About Subeta" link. The average amount of sP that a user has, this has been increasing, but not at the rate the OP is so dead certain that it is.

The purpose of an sP-sink should not be to make anyone a profit. Your approach is Mercantile, and this kind of economic system is not fun and it belongs on the trash heap of history. There's a reason capitalism won out. Forcing users to pay other users sP: this privileges older/wealthier players at the expense of the new players or those who are bad at economics. Neopets does this. Neopets FUCKING SUCKS.

Saggy alone gives around 1.5mm and that's without a gold account. Then add all the other quests and it's probably 3-4mm or up to 5-6mm for gold account users. That multiplied by the number of users that complete quests is where I am getting the value of billions of sp is generated today. The only sp leaving the system in that process is the items stocked in shops that you typically pay 2k and item for.

Edit: I might be overestimating the number of users that do quests. I see 600-800 users on at all times so I figured the number doing quests is likely north of 1000 but who knows really. They are incredibly profitable though, so not sure why an active user wouldn't do them.

Also there is 3.7 trillion sp I have no idea how much of that is locked in dormant accounts probably a lot but I highly suspect the average active user number have nearly a billion. I am only intermittently active and didn't play at all for probably 4/5ths of the age of this account and I have 8billion

2nd edit I agree you can make money from restocking, however that just redistribution the existing sp on the site, there is no new sp being generated. There is actually some sp sucked out from it for each 2k you spend buying the itema

Wow no. I don't want to compete to get items from the MC.

You can make profit from the MC, if you buy wisely. :D

The best way to lower inflation would be to make CSC buyable with SP, via the MC

Sopheroo, a CSC shop that you could buy stuff with SP would work, however from an economic perspective it would be a bad idea for the company/site as it would canabilize revenue that they earn. Therefore would not be a good idea as they need revenue to operate and pay their employees.

I think that if staff want to pop that supposed sP bubble, the better alternative might be to retire the "Richest User" achievement & ranking.

You're a sporadic player with 8b to your name, I'm an active player with 1b. And I'm saving that for gifting friends & buying petslots. We play differently - you don't appear to spend your sP that much, whereas I do when something I enjoy is made available. I try to work on my pets, I buy stuff for my wardrobe, buy stuff for achievements, and I occasionally buy plushies, beanbags and the likes.

600-800 users online at all times is a rarity outside of holiday seasons. I've been online around 6am Subeta time today and we've had ~200 online. At the time of posting this, there are ~380 users online. Quests are boring, so most people just stick to Wizard and Saggi and ditch the rest because they'd rather spend time doing something else. Just because something is good for a person doesn't mean the person is going to do it.

I stick to what I've said - if quests were pumping that much sP into the system on a daily basis, staff would have nerfed payouts to bring it under control. It's happened before and I don't see why it wouldn't happen again.

For comparison, my quest haul for today was ~ 2.840m in sP alone and an estimated 2.68m value in items. None of those items are guaranteed to sell and net me the estimated 2.68m profit. I also got two Morty Cards which is 5m profit if sold as items, or 50CSC, and I always use them for CSC. Saggi gave me a whooping 657k profit. With a GA and all 15 of his quests completed. I did not take items from my own shop for the quests, I only bought from user & main shops. So the claim that quests are pumping obscene amounts of sP into the system daily doesn't really hold water. It's true that questing gets sP circulating between users more than it removes sP from the system, but keep in mind that we don't know what someone else is going to do with the 50k we just spent on an item for a quest. Maybe they're saving up for a pet slot. Maybe they're going to buy a potion, or a TC item from the MC. Or maybe they're just hoarding sP for the sake of hoarding.

I do agree that a few more sP sinks would be nice, but I don't think a billionaire center with a random restock would do much beside making people more likely to hoard sP. I'd prefer more account-bound boons that can't be resold - petslots and pet TC slots are a good example of sP sinks that work well. Letting people buy more wardrobe layers, or a tiny bit more shop/gallery size would be nice. An sP sink doesn't need to be profitable to some lucky and rich user to be useful & viable.

Slightly raising resort prices, scratchcard prices & the prices of various other games that ask for payment (Decanter of Indestructability comes to mind) would also be a good sP sink. It's the kind of little things you don't really pay too much attention to. 500sP more per day for a day of resort? Still easier than feeding your pet daily if you do battle quests. People will pay for convenience, so if staff want to add an immediate sP sink, that's a better thing to consider than adding a shop that encourages sP circulation between already super rich users instead of actually taking sP out of the system.

This.

No support for limiting stock in the MC. I have zero interest in a high-sP version of Blackheart Hollow. One is bad enough.

Edit: Also, for what it's worth, the token shop is restocked by hand. This would be asking staff to hand-stock the MC items as well, essentially, and ain't nobody got time for that. Plus, I believe most if not all of our staff work in American time zones, and thus those who live outside the country would be adversely affected by such restocks (since staff would have to be awake to do the stocking).

wow, no, the typical active user DEFINITELY doesn't have that much. ACTIVE users are, generally speaking, constantly spending - buying expensive wearables or pet slots or TC items or potions & elixirs, spending on training or commissioning art and profiles, converting our sP to CSC, etc. even those of us who save up for ages are usually saving FOR something, so that hoard of sP will get spent. the average user is also not an avid restocker or doing anything that will be netting them regular huge profits.

the reason you have so much is likely BECAUSE of your relative inactivity. users who earn and save and don't spend on their pets or avatar or other site features are almost certainly a minority.

i've been on subeta for 10 years (and 6 months). i currently have about 200mil. i only quest when i feel like it, so not particularly often. i don't restock because i don't feel like putting the time/effort into figuring out how to be good at it (and then actually doing it). the most i ever had at one time was around... 800mil? because even if i go a while without spending, there are always ultimately things i want to spend my sP on – for instance, i never surpassed that 800mil because as soon as i got there, they released the millionaire center pet slots which of course i had to snap up. heck, just a couple weeks ago i pulled 100mil out of my vault and grabbed a handful of items that had been on my wishlist for a while.

so yeah, seconding 's comments.

I think you're making some pretty big assumptions there. None of us users know how the sP is currently distributed.

No, not everybody does quests. I can go several days without doing one, simply because I find them boring and I don't have the attention span for it. I'm also an active user with 130mill to my name because I don't hoard sP. I buy pet slots, I buy wearables, I work on achievements, and I work on my collections. Just because people are active doesn't mean they're hoarding sP, or have a billion on hand just like you think.

As far as the MC and the Antique shops go, there are incentives. There are achievements for spending money in the MC, a lot of the items are often cheaper than buying from users if you wait, and the antique shop has the direct to collections which I used, and will continue to use. I don't use those shops for profit (and I don't think they're meant for that), I use them to save money when I'm buying things for my collections or TCs. Just because it's unlimited stock doesn't mean people aren't using it, or that it's not beneficial.

Just as support for my assertions, There was 3.6964 trillion SP on the site last night when I made my post. There is now 3.6974 trillion, and increase of a billion SP in just over 12 hours. I simply wanted to have a discussion about the overall fiscal policy on the site. I am not talking about the free flow of funds between users, as that is all apart of a healthy economy. I am only talking about the net new inflow of SP in the system. Pumping 2 billion into the system daily is a surefire way to cause constant sustained inflation. I made my 8billion SP by accident, I was hoarding tomes to eventually use on my pet at a certain point not to long ago I was doing Sara quests and Saggi quests every day because I literally was hoarding 0SP. I was buying tomes and converting amulets back when the price was 2-2.5mm and spending every SP I made doing that every single day. The prices have sky rocketed over that period to 3.4mm a tome, a 50-60% increase over the course of a year. You might think wow that's a real first world problem to have, and you are right, however now I cant even spend the SP I have amassed even if I tried my hardest. If I tried to spend all that on Amulets now at 450k a pop I would need to by 17777 amulets, not only are there not even that many for sale, It would take me an enormous amount of time to spend. Similarly I would have to buy 2352 tomes, which once again are not even available.

It really was not my intention to bank all this SP, however now that I have it, I cant figure out how to spend it. Sure I want a couple billion to buy some good weapons when I get there

If you couldn't imagine being able to spend your 8 bil sP currently, what makes you think you would be willing to spend it in the hypothetical billionaire center?

I'm not trying to argue. I'm just curious. I have no doubt I could spend 8 bil within 24 hours if given the chance. No, most of that wouldn't flow completely out of the economy, but there's over 2 bil worth of stuff I need/want/would buy just between the MC and Antique Shop, plus whatever I might spend here and there from the other sP shops that I've put off buying from.

Like, you and I obviously have different play styles, and that's fine, but I just don't see why another, more expensive shop would suddenly cause people (in general) who hoard sP to want to spend it (not to mention the amount of people who might start hoarding sP in order to afford things from that shop).

For what it's worth, I've seen that same kind of argument given about other currencies. A handful of users end up with a ridiculously large amount (compared to the average) of [insert currency here] but they still don't spend it because there's just nothing they need or want, and an expensive item isn't going to make them spend it. It has to be something they actually want to buy, and you just can't please everyone enough to make this make a difference, I think.

Perma stock for long term goals of things that are otherwise unavailable. Otherwise this just sounds like a way for the rich to try to get richer and promote hoarding for a restock

One option would be to make them non salable items. A stat booster like the eggs you get when starting that can only be used by you. Or clothing or weapon, or whatever, then it would be solely a sp dump with no chance at profiting from the purchases. At the end of the day the whole idea is about a sp drain on the system. The items don't need to cost billions, I think maybe the title is causing half the issue in the discussion. My whole point is creating a mechanism that will balance out the so being pumped in every day.

Edit- total sp is now up to 3.699 trillion. Up 2.6 billion in one day.

I would argue that that average sP per user and the total sP per user is a HUGE window into the workings of subetas economy and even more importantly the Average sP/sP price of 500 CSC which you can losely track over time to show that it has gone from roughly ratio of 1 to a ratio of .5 over the years, which represents the average player being able to buy a 500 CSC item at any given time (a very common price point for custom wearables), this is exacerbated even further by the fact that that its probably an even narrorwer base than it was traditionally with several people over 5bil sp on hand. What it shows is that people really don't care much about sP and that subeta is only really monetizing the 1/3 of their item database that is custom wearables vs the other 2/3rds of their database.

I would be willing to bet that if they were able to maintain a ratio of 1 their revenue would go up considerably as it would represent people being willing to buy CSC to sell again, which would represent people showing interest in the rest of subetas catalog of items.

Subeta is losing player base because the core gameplay is poor by modern game standards.

Making everything perma availible in the MC or antique shop is poor gameplay because it creates no urgency for people to actually invest - look how many people actually buy SoSS and Wrath vs if you put them in something like this with 20 avaialible, they would sell out in a week. Allowing everything to inflate to unobtainable prices is equally shitty gameplay like the god weapons.

Something like this properly managed might actually save subetas economy and its core gameplay (and subetas revenue), and might give it a few more years of life.

You put it in a better manner then I did sovereign. That's my exact issue with the MC and antique shop is the quantity available is infinite therefore there is no urgency to buy therefore people don't buy and as a result so doesn't flow out of the economy. Take the token shop for example, because quantities are limited people sell that puppy out in hours and that's thousands of items stocked day after day. The reason the crystal shop doesn't sell out is because it's so hard to mass crystals buying one at a time. If they threw 1000 universal remotes in a shop at 50mill each, with a 12 hour purchase timer, it would almost instantly drain 50 billion out of the economy. I would recommend being cautious with draining so as to not throw off the overall balance of the economy.

It doesn't matter how eloquently you make the argument this is basically subetas version of democrats vs republicans. You will never convince people to change their mind on this topic. Both sides are completely entrenched in thinking their way is the right way. And management currently thinks that the make everything availible to everyone at all times is the right way.

(I would argue the fact that they apparently haven't turned a profit in 2 years according to recent staff posts probably means they are wrong, but see above.)

I seem to remember, way back, there was API access and people were making graphs of this kind of stuff.

, I can't help but notice that you have only one pet that is not impressively strong, no plushie, sticker, beanbag, etc. collection, and no galleries.

If you really can't figure out how to spend your sp, may I suggest looking into those things? Terribly sorry that you accidentally made 8 billion, but the great majority of users spend their sp on one or all of those things. Claiming that it's Subeta's fault you have too much money is just bizarre. You were hoarding and left Subeta for a while, and it paid off. Why not celebrate your good fortune instead of complaining that Subeta gives out too much sp?

And speaking of rampant inflation, look to the people who hoard sp, like yourself. I have bit over 100 million, but will spend half that for a GA and the rest on gallery wants. Come October I plan to save up 500 million to gift friends for Christmas, which will be the most sp I save all year. I simply don't understand someone who sits on 100 billion with no goal of buying a Blessed Trident of the Banished One or whatever.

i don't see the reason that things should be limited, it gives people goals to save up. the richest user has 52bil, thats a shit load of sp, and it hasn't budged in a while. people are already irritable about scarcity of some items, having an entire shop dedicated to that, but with a price tag of the lowest being a bil is ... nah.

this just is a no from me.