So, this recent holiday really proved just how much Subeta needs a bigger, better server to handle the extra users and strain. Obviously, this isn't inexpensive, but I have an idea!

Set up a donation collection that goes exclusively towards a new server. Donating money towards the server would not return CSC or GA time or anything like that. Instead, there would be tiered forum titles. E.g:

Donate a total amount of $5: forum title 1 Donate a total amount of $10: forum title 2 Donate a total amount of $20: forum title 3 Donate a total amount of $30: forum title 4 Donate a total amount of $50: forum title 5

Donations would be tracked so that a user should be able to donate in increments and get the appropriate titles when they reach the next tier, or, if they donate the maximum, be immediately awarded all titles.

I'm open to any and all suggestions, but (in my opinion) incentives for server donations should be something unique that won't impact collections, so no Beanbags, Plushies, or TCG.

Edits for replies:

1. Just because this recent holiday has been "smoother" than earlier years, doesn't mean that it's good enough. There were still far too many 504's and ridiculously long load times for the holiday to be enjoyable.

2. I was not aware that it was a possible coding issue versus a server issue.

3. The reason that I'm suggesting a separate donation towards a new server instead of asking the subeta team to use the money already coming in is because: a. I'm sure they're already using that money already towards server costs, employee pay, etc... b. The people donating would be doing so because they want the site to be better, not because they'd get something back for their money, and they'd know exactly where their money was going.

4. I suggested titles as the "rewards" specifically so that users who couldn't donate wouldn't feel left out. There are already a few titles to be gained through purchasing CSC, so why not for donating towards a new server?

5. There's no need for your replies to be nasty and sarcastic. A simple "no support" would be sufficient.

i was under the impression that subeta already has access to multiple servers (the term i'm remembering being used is whichever programmer's on has to "spin up servers"?) but it's a manual thing, so it takes a bit to get back up to speed...? i could be misremember/misunderstanding this though.

either way, i would think that buying csc already funds the servers. not exclusively, of course, but it's certainly more valuable/more appealing than buying forum titles (and buying a lot of csc can net you two forum titles already).

No support. I was online every day of Survival and 99% of the time the site was working just fine. There were a few hiccups here and there, but overall I think it was their most successful event yet in terms of site stability and they definitely do not need donations.

I feel that people are already hesitant to spend their real money on CSC/virtual currencies as is.

Having a donation drive along the lines of "give us your money, IT'S GOING TO FIX THE SITE WE PROMISE! oh and have a few words on a screen as your prize! :D" isn't exactly going to get the kind of userbase response OP is hoping for. :X

Besides, it's been said dozens of times before: it's not the servers that are the issue, it's Subeta's coding. Which is gradually being updated and worked on.

Like... yeah, the 504s and slow loads are annoying as shit, but believe me, it used to be way worse. This holiday was a charm compared to previous years.

I get where you're coming from, but users have already poked Keith with similar funding ideas (Kickstarter, etc.) for a proper recode and he made it very clear that it's not possible.

I don't like this for a couple of reasons...

1. As said, overall Survival (and Luminaire for that matter) was pretty smooth compared to prior years. That shows me the changes that have been being made are taking the site in the right direction already.
2. Having to donate money as the only way to gain an in-game item, including a title, doesn't appeal to me and will exclude quite a few users.
3. I don't want to tell staff what to spend money on. If I want to support the site, I'll buy CSC. Staff knows what their priorities are and where that money needs to go.

A discussion about servers, again? I was under the impression that Subeta keeps moving servers left and right all the time. I've been here for a long time and let me tell you how things are much more 'smooth' and 'stable' than it used to be. I don't get why we should give money as a donation. There is already an option to help Subeta by purchasing CSC directly. We cannot force Subeta to invest in anything, as we are using a free website and don't owe anything to them nor do we owe them anything in return (I am not taking in account respect and such). It's simply not that easy.

I have a couple of thoughts on this:

1. I don't think servers are the issue - we can probably blame redundant code and features that strain the servers unnecessarily. The site's been a lot more stable lately and I don't think they've gotten new severs recently, Staff are just upgrading to newer, better processes, streamlining the site, and removing or changing features that strain the servers (RIP account worth page).

2. It's better to be general about money - charities get into awkward situation when people want their donations to go to certain things like housing when really, they need something else and can't use the housing money to do it or people will get mad. Staff knows more about where money needs to go than we do.

I think Subeta is much better now than before, Survival was very smooth even when there were 1k+ users online.. I was pretty impressed.. I think the lags where because of works in the background but it was for a very short moments during the holiday..

Yeah because CWs dont bring in enough money by themselves

It's cute that people think the few bumps during Survival are anywhere near as bad as what we used to go through just a few years ago.

But nah, I'm going to have to pass on this. For one, EVERY SITE goes down once in a while, it can't be helped, and subeta has massively improved over what it used to be like. Once upon a time, it couldn't even handle over 1k users on at once. (In fact, it was so rare to have 1k users on at any given point that they'd make events out of it, handing out prizes if you could convince enough people to log on at once.)

Two, there's already a massive stream of $$ coming in thanks to CWs, steady flow of Boutique lines, and the battle challengers.

We already have a way to help the site, it's via the cash shop.

^^^ See the opening post for replies about your concerns.

This. I think I remember Keith saying that what the users want vs. what Subeta needs are different things. Exceptions are high when you're donating anything, especially money. It's like what's happening at Locks of Love - they have so much donated hair they are throwing it away. Not to be mean, but because they need the cash to make the wigs and ship them out, and storing the hair also costs money. Or Food Banks needs money to keep the lights on, but everyone gives them old cans instead.

echoing what everyone else said, want to help the site? buy csc. theres literally a daily support goal counter on the front page to encourage people to help

Yeah, I don't like this idea, and iirc it's already been addressed in the past as not being practical

I had very few problems during Survival, actually. And while it wasn't perfect, it was an improvement over some past years. I know people don't like to hear that answer, but I think baby steps are the way to go here. A sudden upgrade might be nice for a holiday or two, but what happens if donations to this specific fund suddenly drop off, and the usual amount of CSC purchases can't keep up with it? We're right back where we started (if not worse off. I don't know how easy it actually is to buy/drop servers)

idk I kind of get where these threads are coming from, especially if you can only be online during peak times when the lag is at its worst or if your internet isn't great either so you seem to be having twice as many problems. I just don't think it's the way to go

That's why I suggested that the only rewards would be titles, so that the donation for a server wouldn't be competing with CSC purchases.

I do buy CSC, I've actually bought quite a bit. This is about providing for one specific goal, not just general funding.

I'm not sure what times of day you play at, but I'm generally online between 3am to 8am and 12pm to 8pm Subeta time. The morning times there are maybe 500 people online and yet even during that time I was having trouble with Survival. I have the fastest internet available in my area, so obviously it's something wrong on Subeta's end.

If it's as says, and Subeta already has multiple servers that are manually spun up, then maybe they need to keep one more on than they usually do.

As for being worried about the funds dropping off, I meant that the fund would go to purchasing an actual dedicated server machine, not just renting another server from a provider.

They can spin a dozen more servers up, or buy several servers for the site alone, none of them are going to help much if something in the coding is choking things down. ._. You can add all the servers you want, but if the stuff under the hood can't take maximum advantage of it, you're wasting your resources. To make it more frustrating for everyone involved - pinpointing and repairing what's wrong under the hood isn't a quick and simple process. And fwiw, server machines still require maintenance. Which requires money, time and manpower.

Think of it like replacing things on a car. You can buy new doors, new seats, a whole new interior and dashboard, new wheels and rims, get an amazing new hood ornament... But if your engine is sputtering and choking and your electronics are dying, none of that new stuff is going to make the car work any better. And the programming team has been busy fixing up this car's electronics as well as slowly updating the cosmetics.

We've had big, hefty coding updates fairly recently: PHP7, new sCode processing stuff, server updates. And even more updates meant to optimize server load, like the wardrobe updates, new user shops and galleries, vault updates and heavy-traffic areas got cache added to them to help with lag.

I get the frustration, believe me. I do. I've been here 13 years, going on 14 now. I've seen days where Subeta couldn't even load a single page, days where we've had DDoS attacks so bad that navigating Subeta felt like walking through molasses, days where MySQL was throwing more fits than a toddler in the candy aisle. And yes, we've had those things happen during holidays. Subeta is not perfect. It was made by a teenager who wanted to make something cool and work on his coding skills. 14 years later, it's still owned by the same person who made it, and it's maintained, updated and operated by a small team.

Topics like this, understandably, come up every so often. ">Here's a link to a similar one from 2016, where Keith posted more information if you're interested in reading through it.

But even with all that said, if you'd rather basically hear everything I just said straight from a programmer who's more than aware that Subeta has been having occasional issues for the past week or so...

Thanks for the ping. :P

It's nice to hear from someone who's actually certain about what the issue is. I understand what Subeta is and was, I used to have an account a long, long, long time ago (so long ago that it got cleared due to inactivity, back when they did that) I just haven't been around to hear that the main issue with lag was coding, all I knew was that we're in the middle of a recode, essentially one portion of the site at a time.

I was legitimately just hoping to help. I was hoping that it was just a server issue, which is why I suggested a fund specifically for one. I knew that buying a dedicated server was an expensive upfront cost (which can make someone wary if they don't really have the funds for it) but it has a lower maintenance cost than paying for servers from a provider. I guess I just didn't expect most of the replies to boil down to "users selfish; donations bad" for something that would be entirely voluntary.

Thank you for at least being respectful and informational in your replies; not that everyone else wasn't, but damn, we have some snarky people on site.