I'm running some math here, and with my moderate number of pets being 25, if I rank them all up to be max level criminals, I should be able to get up to about 400K+ per day, by clicking a single button.

If we compare this to bank interest that was deemed to be too OP, this is the equivilent of holding 4.8bil at 3% yearly interest.

(and even just where I am at, making 140k per day its the equivilent of holding 1.8b at 3% yearly)

There are people that could crush these numbers. And if doesn't even have the effect of being a psuedo sP sink by encouraging saving.

If Bank interest was bad for the economy, this is going to be 10x worse.

I see what you're getting at. However, with pets and jobs there's the factor of you needing to invest into each of them with training and reading to them. It is absolutely an investment, a case of "insert money, wait, click button to make more money", but it's less instantaneous than vault interest was, and takes more effort from your end to get to a point where you're making 400k+ a day from pet jobs. If we're talking just profit, I still make way more sP profit from just questing than I do from all of my employed pets. And it took me way less time to do my daily quests than it did to get some of my pets to the highest tier of their respective jobs.

Another thing is... nothing really prevented people from earning 400k+ a day from pet jobs before the "collect all" option was added. You could bookmark all of the "collect income" pages for your pets, put the bookmarks into their own folder and open all the bookmarks from that folder in a new window. Close window, Bob's your uncle. The only limiting factor was how much effort someone was willing to put into saving those bookmarks and opening them daily.

Would I personally mind there being a "convenience tax" on using the "collect all" option? Not really. I still had to train/read to all of those pets to get them to that point and I would still be rewarded for that effort/investment with some sP and the chance to get bonus stats. If I wanted to minmax sP gain, I would still be able to open all of those tabs manually and get max income instead of being taxed for doing it the easy way. Doing something as drastic as removing pet income entirely simply because it's "just like vault interest" raises the question of: what even is the point of the job agency? So if anything, I'd say an incremental "convenience tax" for the "collect all" button that increases based on how many pets of yours are employed might be the best solution to this, assuming staff consider pet income enough of a problem that needs fixing.

[edit]Adjusted wording for clarity.

Oh, good grief.

Let me expand on that a bit:

I've been here the better part of fifteen years, I've seen the arguments for and against things like this and all I have to say is: good grief. The "rise and grind" mentality on here is absolutely... something. I'm barely a casual player on here, I'm neither one for battles because I don't have a battle pet worth bothering (by standards) and I'm not one for CWs because I can't draw worth a crap. I am, in terms to some, a non-player player, if you want something simple.

I've been on here long enough for the whole "Oh, no! So and so is undercutting me by X amount!" has become tedious. I'm tired of inflated prices and broken richest users, I'm sick of the richest user achievement as a whole (you've hoarded many things! Congrats, you won the game!)

So, Idk, no one's forcing you to do anything with the job agency on here. The system as it was was flawed, it remains flawed, yeah. It's going to be an economic bubble that will burst but when I have to pay over 10mil for 250CSC that used to be about 2.5mil when I started playing, let it pop.

This is still supposed to (relatively, to my understanding) be a kids' site. I know, I blither on like an idiot on here sometimes/most times because the kind of player I am isn't exactly incentivized to do anything onsite, there's not much to do on here and there still isn't.

This constant complaint of "too much sP in circulation" while simultaneously having a richest user achievement makes me go, "Wtf."

Collecting pet wages in one go doesn't bring in more sP than collecting wages individually. I am grateful for the change because I am old and arthritic, so it saves me a lot of physical discomfort.

In order for a pet to have a well paying job such as Director of SAI there's a big outlay involved training for Strength, Level and Intelligence. This makes it very different from the bank interest we used to get simply for having sP in the bank.

Reminder that you can disagree with something without being a total prick about it! ^-^

Just thought of something else. I have 62 pets. Most of them required buying pet slots from the Millionaire Center or with CSC ( I bought a lot of CSC gift cards from other players with sP). What with stat training and books it will be a long time before I break even let alone make a profit from Pet Jobs. Other players have more pets than I have.

Battle pets automatically gain levels, strength and intelligence, so well paid jobs for them are a bonus which helps to pay for training. Other pets which have well paid jobs just for the job titles act as an sP sink for a very long time.

That's an excellent point, I haven't even considered the cost of pet slots!

To crunch numbers a little: Everyone gets 10 pet slots by default. You need to be on Subeta for 2 years to start getting 1 free loyalty pet slot per year. We haven't had a quest-a-thon for a free pet slot in... I don't even remember when, so I won't be taking that into account. And that's it for potential free pet slots. Anything past that will cost you a nice amount. MC slots start at 20m a pop, and go up 20m for every following slot. It goes up to 200m for one pet slot, then it resets back to 20m and starts all over until you hit the MC slot cap (currently 25 slots). CSC slots cost 1500csc per slot and are never on sale. One CSC slot would currently cost about 120m sP. If I mathed right, (200m for 4 MC pet slots, 25 max slots), buying all the MC pet slots in one go would cost you just over 2 billion sP.

So let's start off a more common cost/profit example with a new player: You have 10 pet slots. You save up and buy 5 pet slots from the MC (total cost 220m). You work on training all of those pets and getting their intelligence up (total cost varies). You end up having to wait for days to be able to get a promotion. Let's say you get approx 10k profit from each of your pets because you didn't have time or the motivation to grind stats for very high-paying jobs. That's 10k x 15 = 150k a day. 20,000,000 ÷ 150k = ~ 133. 4 months = 122 days. It would take you 133 days of only collecting pet income daily to pay off your first MC pet slot. That's over 4 months. And that's not including training/autotraining costs and book costs. Paying off for your second pet slot in full just from pet income would take you ~8 months. Paying off the third would take you just over a year. So that's... 2-something years of only collecting pet income, and you haven't even paid off for the 5 pet slots you bought, let alone the cost of books and training.

So idk. If I mathed wrong somewhere, please correct me if I did. But the more I look at it, the less I see a direct, clean comparison between pet income and vault interest. 🤷‍♀️

I have 130 pets, and it requires solid investment into raising up their strength and level to have a decent job for all 130 of them

Like, the salary you make is nowhere near what you invested to get there.

Historically I think you would be correct that the cost of getting an army of SAI pets would have had a very slow rate of return.

But training an army of criminals has dropped significantly in price, and the break even point on a Mastermind Inc Criminal is probably about 270 days with probably about 5m initial investment in books and probably 1.5-2hours of farming EXP.

Historically your right, Jobs had like a 2-3 year payoff window, but its considerably shorter now, and its not necessarily only a problem because of the collect all button, but it does make it much easier to highlight its problems compared to a previous sp faucet.

I think you're assuming everyone wants all their pets to have the best jobs to make the most of amount of money... which is not the case.

For some of us, our pets are characters, so we make decisions not based in what is the best value but because it matches their character. Some of my pets have shit jobs and make like 3k a day but I keep them there because it suits their character or I think it's interesting or funny.

My sweetheart pet makes like 2.5k at the candy shop because he is candy coloured. Another works at half baked for 6k a day because he's a zombie (as reflected in his battle stats because he has no defense and speed). Another works at the craft store because his colours happen to match the icon for it. My nostalgic zentu works at seedlings because he has the succulent TC and also he looks like a watering can. I don't remember what he makes because it doesn't matter to me.

Not everybody plays the game to min max it. Some of are here to do funny little things with our funny little dudes.

Another aspect to having pets is pet colours. Unless you are very lucky with the zapper it costs a lot of sP or CSC to have something other than the cheap, basic colours. It also costs CSC to adopt a Neela (I have never had one via the zapper). Pet treasures also cost sP if you want a pet to have a lot of treasure slots and treasures.

The main concern in the opening post seems to be what if players have all their pets as top level criminals. Clicking a single button for the wages doesn't bring in any more sP than collecting the wages manually so maybe the question should be how much pets earn for what jobs.

The job agency started out with getting a pet a job and promotions used to be random - asking for a promotion could get a promotion or result in a pet being fired. The current system must be around 15 years old now and the highest paying job (Director of SAI) is nearly as old. There was nothing stopping players from having all their pets Directors of SAI and collecting 30K sP for each pet every day.

Using my pet Kronik as a simple example: Training Time: 510 minutes (8.5 hours) Cost: 50310 sP

Each time I hit this button for this one pet it costs me 50k+, and that will continue to increase. I can theoretically hit this button just under 3x per day. I can earn 30k for this pet from the job agency once per day.

It's a nice little bonus but considering the investment (e.g. training, books read, boosters, aesthetic fees, pet slots, and of course the massive time sink) it does not equal a profit.

I fail to see why the 'collect all' button is causing concern - people could already cash out each day if they had the time/inclination. (I did). The new button is a wonderful little package to save our hands/wrists/minds, that's all. Quality of life! I really appreciate that. For transparency, I earn 500k+ per day. I also try to train all my pets, so that sP gets spent.

I guess someone could train all their pets up to the minimum required for the best job payment and then stop and collect their income daily, labelling the rest as profit. Sounds like a boring way to play the game, but it still doesn't seem like a huge problem to me. /shrugs

Edit: Honestly, if the issue is with there being a single button, campaign for a single button to train all available pets. That will get used and the sP will just fall out of the economy!

1. this is an absurd premise; very few people are interested in investing the time & sP to train and read to all their pets just for the sake of minmaxing their jobs and making the equivalent of a couple games of item hunt.
2. man we JUST got the "collect all income" button and you already want to take it away? after keith even said he couldn't believe we didn't already have one? do you understand that many of us are getting older and our bodies just don't bounce back the way they used to? i had to tap out of the gelatin war early because i was developing a genuine wrist injury from all the clicking & button mashing. it's just straight up inaccessible game design, and it sucks. little ease-of-use upgrades like this are more important than your hypothetical situation that isn't even accurate to how the vast vast majority of people play the game.

also. not sure what's with all the passive-aggressive "uwu you can disagree and still be nice uwu" comments here. not a single person disagreeing in this thread has been unkind. what IS unkind is when people have spent years requesting a quality-of-life feature to the point that the creator of the site himself says "oh no, we didn't already have this? i'm adding it right now!" and then someone IMMEDIATELY turns around and says "that's a stupid feature! take it away!" now if staff said "we've tried/considered this but ultimately decided it would have a detrimental effect on the economy" like they did for bank interest, that would be one thing. but it has now been explicitly stated that this decision is in-line with subeta's current intended game design. so why can't that decision be accepted until/unless evidence arises to the contrary?

I totally understand where you're coming from! At initial glance, it's easy to mistake pet income for being just like bank interest. But, as many other folks have pointed out - there's actually a massive sP sink to get pets to the level that they are making significant money. It significantly outweighs the impact of collecting income!

If we were looking at people suddenly being able to collect income when they had not before, and having a community of everyone having 25+ pets all at the highest job level already then I think we would be more thoroughly discussing concerns since that static starting point would be pulling sP with (in this example) no further sP put in. But that's not the case! We've always been able to collect income for all our pets. Certainly, it's easier now so more folks will remember or do it. But many of us who are working at job levels collect daily as is and it has not been an issue. Additionally, between training and reading it takes a good chunk of time and a lot of money to get your pet to the point that they're making a decent income.

Taking my pets for example, I have 61 pets atm. A few of them are already at the highest job level. The rest are currently at level 2 - 3 (this is with me intentionally working towards getting them all to the highest level, which I started probably a few months ago). To get a pet from lv2 to lv3 I have to read them 40 books each. That's around 100k per pet just on books. They also have to gain 15 levels and 25 defense "levels". That's another 35k per pet (averaging). Their income is then 3750sP per day. When we shake that out, I'm putting in around 8 and a quarter mil sP. I would need to collect daily for over a month to make that back from income alone.

While I can collect daily, getting pets that far is not a quick task. Realistically, the grind of reading and training is enough that some folks don't bother at all. And even folks that do aren't on for long periods every day, or don't want to sit there and just grind through for hours. Sure, maybe some folks (few and very far between I'd guess) can sit there and power through. But I'll say I was pretty diligent about it and worked at it daily and I still haven't gotten everyone to even level 3 after a few months lol. I don't think a collect all button is going to have enough benefit to make everyone suddenly leap to working all their pets up to certain job levels. I mean, sure it's a nice perk once you're there but it takes time and investment before you see any payoff and you make as much after all that as you could make playing all 10 games of Memory and half the games of Caliphs' Tomb.

As some other folks also pointed out, pets are a sP sink in more ways than the job levels! Species and color changes, TCs, achievements (if that's your thing), potentially paying for profiles or art or stories, minions ... and if you're here long enough you may even rotate through all of that more than once for just one pet lol. Not to mention, getting that many pets costs a good chunk itself! Between 1500CSC and the MC slots, we're talking a lot of money doesn't want to do the math on what I've spent over the years lol.

Where as bank interest was truly just put your money you already make in the bank and then get more money for free pet jobs are a totally different game.

Sure, maybe one day in the far future there's a chance we could run into a hiccup. But I don't think it's going to happen and certainly not anytime soon.

Gentle reminder to everyone that we can and should communicate kindly. Sharing different perspectives or thoughts doesn't require arguing. Keep Subeta Kind 2025 ❤

Thank you for reminding me to collect my income!!
Seriously though, I am one of the many who chose my pet's jobs, and the position they hold in them, by how the job title fits their profile. My hyper-intelligent sociopath serial-killer is my only "Director of SAI" pet. My Hydrus demi pirate ship gunner is happy to only make 600sp as a powder monkey, 'cause that's what she is. I make a little under 150k total income after 13 years of training and promoting my pets. That's less than 3 Saggi quests! I personally don't see the collect all button becoming a problem.

Isn't the only change a 'collect all income' button ? Just like , I'm a non-player player that has been here for a very very long time. There are several insensitive onsite that makes it still valuable to be rich (ie: richest user broken achievement thing). I think there are far worse situation at this moment when it comes to sP and hoarding currency.

I'm still waiting for interesting sP sinks tbh.

but youre assuming everyone wants the highest level for their pet and that simply isnt true and the amount of training, books, etc put into pets to get to that level i think far exceeds what youre gaining in sP (unless youve been collecting for years)

im looking at your pets and youve gained a whole 38k at logistics analyst in 390 days.... but im sure youve spent more than that boosting your pet to that level.

the button was just released... people who've had that job have been collecting their pet income separately which the button just makes it easier to do as a daily instead of separately

Money printer go brrrr

(There's a lot of ways the site has money pop up, but there are relatively few good gold sinks that aren't like... billions of sp)

The title of the board was LONG TERM impact.

My point is this: over the LONG TERM (I would say approximately 1 year+), it is not worthwhile to train an army of criminal mastermind incs, for approximately 5mil each (although if everyone tries, maybe this will go up) that will pay themselves off in ~270 days.

Additionally, the fact that multuple users can collect 500K+. day with a single button click will 100% lead to inflation. When keith was worried about bank interest, there were like 10 users that could do that

The button is what I think made it very clear that this has the potential to be a problem, but that problem might also just be the structure of the job agency in general. Especially the Criminal job line which I think has the most potential for outright abuse.

You buy 415 Intel for ~5mil Buy a Morosbane Scroll and 2 Bottled Fire Fight challengers from easy up to hard, only buying STR and OHKO with Morosbane scroll + 2 bottled fire up to 250, then level to 96 (probably 2h max)

Then repeat for the next pet.

It doesn't really matter how people got to this point so far, or how person X plays the game, or if person Y spends their np on the training school. What matters is that there are groups of people who can easily collect massive amounts of sp for minimal future effort even if the effort used to be huge to get to where they are now, and that there are a set of game actions to set up that same infrastructure and become profitable in a relatively short period of time.

Maybe my statement will age poorly in a year or two... but just because something is possible doesn't mean that enough people will jump through all the hoops to make it as big of a problem as you're suggesting. It might be because you and I play the game differently but I have a time imagining that we would have a lot of takers with how much the userbase has dwindled over the years.

And even if you do end up being right and I have to eat my words, we should then advocate for more effective sinks to better balance it. I really don't think we should take something that a lot of people really wanted for a long time away. Keith just made a lot of people really excited for the game again with a simple change and it would be a shame if it was taken away because of a handful of opportunists ruining it for everybody else.