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Oct 18, 2021 4 years ago
astolfo
is fangtastic
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Couple of disclaimers before I start: if you read this thread and your first thought is to respond saying that I’m too sensitive or need to get over it, then don’t bother responding. Also, I am posting from mobile, so apologies if the formatting is off.

I also want to explain that I tried reaching out to the staff about this first because I didn’t want to make this public at first, but I was directed here to address my concerns. Therefore, I hope it’s very clear that I’m not in the mindset of ‘canceling’ anyone for this. I’m aware that this book is a much older item, but I feel this should be addressed following recent developments.

To give an overview for those confused: I am referring to this item, . It has just been rereleased as a free gift sometime yesterday. It’s meant to be a memorial item dedicated to Alan Rickman, which I have no problem with; I think the concept of a memorial item itself is sweet.

Unfortunately, the item itself references Harry Potter (specifically, the description discussing page 394, which references a line Alan said as Severus Snape: “Turn to page 394”). I know the movies are Alan Rickman’s best known role and are how most people tend to recognize him, but we need to let Harry Potter go. J.K. Rowling does active and ongoing harm to transgender people, most specifically trans women, and still continues to profit off of her work and all of the other media it produced. By continuing to reference or make positive allusions to HP, it still contributes to giving her a platform.

Rowling has openly voiced support for a TERF (trans-exclusionary radical feminist) and, following that, has published an essay that is heavily bigoted against trans women. She has also published novels under the pen name Robert Galbraith (which is also the name of a conversion therapist) with incredibly transphobic rhetoric. While some may argue that it’s important to separate the art from the artist, I feel that only applies to deceased authors who obviously no longer benefit from the popularity of their works.

I’m not blaming anyone who still has a lingering nostalgia for HP or if it brought you comfort during a hard time. However, I feel it’s important to let it go. Please change this item so that it no longer references Harry Potter. Maybe include a quote from Alan Rickman in the description instead.

❤️ alain | 22 | he/him ❤️ 🦋 my wishlists 🦋
[img align=center]https://i.imgur.com/ltOHOuf.png[/img]

Oct 18, 2021 4 years ago Official
Keith
is sweet
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Eradication

Because of the impact on the culture (and me personally) we have a number of HP tributes that came out over the years and removing or changing all of them is something we just don't have the time or resources to do. This item is a particularly deep cut that doesn't actually mention the book in particular and unless someone points it out like in this thread I'm not sure that most people (even diehard HP fans) would know what it is or refers to. We cannot remove every item on the site that is potentially triggering, and Jo doesn't make a dollar from anything related to HP on Subeta.

I and the entire team here stand against Jo and the hard right turn that shes taken, especially around her treatment of trans women.

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Oct 18, 2021 4 years ago
METROID
has been EXTERMINATED
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Havoc

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. You don't have to like Harry Potter anymore. It's okay. Plenty of us do still though. You can like something without liking the creator themselves. It does mean you are not an ally if you like HP still. You're not suddenly a traitor or a terrible person. That's not how life works, people.

This item reminds me of Alan Rickman, and one of my favorite HP books/movies, and I do not want to see that removed just because JK Rowling is an ass. This item is for Alan, not her.

[flower=Metroid]

Wanna know more about battling? ❤️ The Official Battle Guide v3.3 ❤️ Need to find books? 🌈 The Book Grind Guide v1.0 🌈

Oct 18, 2021 4 years ago
astolfo
is fangtastic
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The issue I have is not that JKR is potentially making money off of this. I understand that, which is why I chose my wording carefully. The issue is also not anyone being potentially triggered. It’s about deplatforming known bigots. The impact she has had on culture is specifically why it’s important to shut her out. I know staff has few times or resources, but I have seen items been changed in the past when concerns have been raised about them before. Is it truly not possible?

If the HP reference is too obscure for most people to get, even diehard HP fans who love Alan Rickman, then why choose that description? It seems that quite a few people recognized the reference from when I was scrolling.

❤️ alain | 22 | he/him ❤️ 🦋 my wishlists 🦋
[img align=center]https://i.imgur.com/ltOHOuf.png[/img]

Oct 18, 2021 4 years ago
Marcus
is one for the books
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Pollinator

So, disclaimer: I'm trans and cannot stand JK. She's genuinely awful, and everything you've said about her is right--she actively supports hate groups, and I don't think Harry Potter can nor should be "reclaimed." (Especially with all the antisemitic goblin depictions, racism, weirdly pro-slavery shit with the house elves?? and more--it's got a lot of Issues as a series.)

That said, I'm a little torn on the reference in this item. On the one hand, it's a very brief and buried reference to something Snape says in the series. Like, it's clearly Snape, but if you're unfamiliar with HP, it's gonna go right over your head.

But then again, there are a lot of things that are deliberately vague that are used as hate symbols--the number 1488, the OK hand sign, etc. Obviously, "page 394" isn't a coded hate symbol used by TERFs, but it does clearly reference a series published by one of the most vocal TERFs out there. JK doesn't need a bigger platform.

Beyond that, the item is a memorial to Alan Rickman--not Snape, though that's probably his most well-known role. I love the idea of using a quote from Alan Rickman in lieu of a reference specifically to Snape, since it could recall more of his life and influence, and not just a single role he played.

...now that I've typed all that out, yeah, I can only see benefits to changing the description.

I'm curious what other users will say about this. Subeta is, in general, a pretty queer-friendly space, but I'm not optimistic about how this thread will go tbh. People debate over trans lives and realities all the time, as if it's an acceptable mental exercise to question whether we should exist or not. Now there's a sad feeling. :/

he/him ||digital rot||

Oct 18, 2021 4 years ago
Avel
has ALL of the plushies!
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NVLB

I forgot this was a tribute or had anything to do with HP at all to be honest. I haven't read the books in a good decade and not even all that deeply when I did, so forgive me if some of the tributes go over my head or anyone else's.

When I saw this book again, I just saw it was a book and read it to my pet because I'm trying to train my pets for jobs. That was all. It was just part of the game for me.

I guess I don't care what happens either way since I'm not attached to HP anymore, but not everyone will think of HP and JK by extension because of it.

[tot=Avel]

Oct 18, 2021 4 years ago
kudzu
is lost in space
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Clauneck

JK Rowling sucks as a human being and I will never defend her, but unfortunately the Harry Potter series is extremely prolific and we just can't expect everyone or everything to change and even some may not realize the hurt the author has caused. This item is a tribute to an actor, not to JK Rowling, not to the Harry Potter series. I don't agree that this item needs to be changed as it's original release was years ago when Alan Rickman passed and if I remember my timelines right, was before JKR outed herself as a transphobe.

I was never a giant HP fan, but I went through something similar when an actor in my fave TV series was discovered to be a sexual creep to women at conventions (sometimes underage). This was incredibly difficult for me to watch the new season of the show knowing this, and for a while I didn't watch. However, the studio terminated his contract and effectively wrote the character out of the show going forward. For myself, I had to separate the actor from the character (as he played one of the main characters) and focused on the good writing and the good acting and the fictional world and character itself, not the person portraying them.

It's a long winded way of saying, "yeah, this person sucks and I won't support them anymore but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy things from the past". Of course, everyone is different in how they approach it and their own feelings are valid. You could use an ad-blocker (on desktop, unsure if mobile can do it) to block the item image. As well, there's already a thread of item requests to be updated you could post in to put it on the staff's radar.

Keep in mind we have countless Harry Potter related items on Subeta, many are tribute CWs that are older and some still that are new. To change them or everyone's mindset would be an impossible task! I'm not here to invalidate your thoughts on this (I hope I'm not coming off that way), as I'm 1000% percent in agreeance that JKR need not be referenced anymore, but there are still many individuals who enjoy the Harry Potter franchise and may have come to terms of their own enjoyment of it themselves. I just don't associate with those items myself. I, personally, see this item as a sweet tribute to a prolific actor and not an homage to the writer of the series.

Oct 18, 2021 4 years ago
Shirley
loves dinosaurs
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I used to love HP and have since let it go. And I honestly had no idea that this was a tribute item let alone one to Alan Rickman. Thought it was just a random, old book that needed a re-release. 😂

Since it's a tribute item to the actor himself and not HP or JKR I think it's fine even though it's from one of his most iconic roles associated with the HP franchise. A compromise would be to simply change the description to another quote by him.

For any new items released onto the site (I personally would also include CWs in this but I know that's not exactly possible to do), I do think that there needs to be no more HP referenced/inspired items.

Oct 18, 2021 4 years ago
Avel
has ALL of the plushies!
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NVLB

I thought I was just an idiot. If it's obscure and it's a tribute to Alan, then yeah, change the description to something from Alan himself. I don't know what you could change the title to or if it needs to changed at all. I don't think artists have time to change the item art (but they do have time have time for an overlay most people can't use onsite so what do I know?).

At any rate though, I do think it will be difficult to scrub the site of HP since this book is not the only reference to HP. I can think of a rag doll and some CWs. Staff can change the official items all they want (and again, I wouldn't care if they do) but people submitted CWs with their own money and I don't think Staff have much control over them.

[tot=Avel]

Oct 18, 2021 4 years ago Official
Keith
is sweet
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Eradication

Gonna lock this up before it turns into a debate. The feedback has been delivered, and we aren't going to be changing this item at this time. Thank you for the feedback, we really do appreciate it.

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