Pinging as many of ya's as I can remember who is on staff. I want a simple answer:

Is this the end of Subeta or not?

No one has stepped forward to say anything about what's going on with the site, with this supposed server move (I thought it was just maintenance, why did you lie to us?), etc.

Forget the holiday, I want to know what's going to be happening with the site, cause at this rate, it doesn't bode well. Either reassure everything is going to be fine, tell us what's really going on, or tell us if this is truly the end.

Y'all, it's a mess. It's annoying for all of us. And as someone who's worked in team settings like this for years, the amount of frustration and anxiety the staff must feel with how this is going down has to be crazy high.

I'm not delighted with the errors every two seconds, but I GET IT. Sometimes things are not that easy to fix and I feel for y'all and hope that soon you'll have some breakthroughs. I know there are big things that have to change in the future, but pretty sure the staff is doing their best and I'm grateful for the efforts.

And end of the I still love the escape from subeta and I'll still play when/if things work enough for me to do so.

you guys be well

This title/OP reminds me of the doomsayers claiming the world was going to end in 2012. Not today, pal.

The end? Subeta's been through worse. Remember "Longcat" and accidentally ending up on 4chan's radar? We even got DDOSed a couple times! xD Or having to move from Subeta.org to .ws before ending with the current .net. There even used to be a dedicated Subeta IRC chat channel because every single event there was downtime. Everyone would go over there to just wait it out together. :)

I've been on Subeta for 15 years. It's still just as worth it as on my very first day. I think you've been around for almost just as long, no? Some of my longest online friendships have been through this place. Even when Subeta itself is a little shaky its still been my rock, an online home, somewhere safe that brings me stability and comfort even as my own health crumbled away.

Subeta's staff are invested in this place, many of which were players here too before becoming staff, as you know. They're passionate about the site and its users. Some things may always be a little "crumbly" here and there, particularly during events for sure. But I just see that as the price of them not selling-out to big companies like Neopets did that only cared about the commercial aspect, at the expense of the user base. Maybe someday Subeta will have to sell to someone bigger, but I know we can trust them. In everything. Because they care even more about this place than we do! They would choose wisely.

I'm not saying I don't feel a bit nervous too, but I know - for me at least - the biggest contributor is the threat of death at everyone's doorstep in the real world right now. If it's the end they'll let us know it's the end. It's not the end. :)

Thank you so much for your reply here. I'm so glad to see other people feel the same way I do. I've been with this site for a long, long time and even when I'm going through a period of inactivity, it's a major source of comfort to me to just know that the site's still kickin', even if it's not running as smoothly as staff would like. I'm here until the end.

I'm very glad to see that posted an update here! I know it's been said but I have to reiterate that even when there isn't much to say other than "we're working on it!" the majority of us really do appreciate just seeing that kind of message. I understand how frustrating it must be to not have anything beyond "we're trying!" to say, when you'd rather be able to report that something is being fixed or work on getting all these things fixed, but just letting us know that things are being worked on really does at least help to assuage users' worries that things are being ignored or forgotten.

I can't even begin to imagine how stressed out everyone on staff, especially the programmers, must be, with everything going on right now. Hang in there, and thanks for your hard work. I wish I could buy you all coffees or something haha

has a public changelog. You can find the link to it post 274 on page 14 of this thread

It's more information than I would know how to even understand, but if you're feeling you need to know and can get forums to work you can go look.

This is relevant as heck. I understand the frustrations of some users and the exasperation over the lag and errors but at the end of the day, some staff have non-internet based jobs too and have been swept up in this real-life pandemic.

All the same, the staff are being straight-forward about what is happening imo; they can't possibly reply to every single person individually.

Also, see 's post above about Keith's updates.

Oh and I love your post and you're right. I've not been around long enough for the Longcat stuff, but I have been here for like 11 years.

We know this isn't the end and we still love you guys but maybe just work on the site as a whole and not worry about the events to come yet. Just get us up and rolling with a wardrobe where everything works every time, quests that don't lag, and things that reset when they should. Keep items from disappearing, with forums that load, and the site working properly-then work on vesnali and another event.

You are still the ones and we got your back 😊

[edit] and artists that are working so hard. Are we good now? I know Rah said artists but I KNOW programmers are working just as hard. And because I didn't say it before, I hope and pray you all stay safe and social distance. If you are ill, hang in there and get better. ❤

"Is this the end?" Seriously? Remember what I told you offline. The devil has enough advocates.

I'm so sorry to hear that some staff are infected. Wishing them all o the best. <3

I agree that this thread title and OP content is on the extreme side, but I just want to address one thing...

"they can't possibly reply to every single person individually"

This is not what people have been asking for. We're simply asking for a little more transparency about what is going on, and for staff to address some of the most major concerns that users have been bringing up.

For example, the over 250 comments in the Masquerade Extension news post with people asking if it could possibly be extended even more since the site has still been barely functional until late this afternoon. And also bringing up the fact that it doesn't appear as if wait times have been decreased and payout increased like the news post said would happen for today and tomorrow.

Not a single staff member has posted anywhere in those comments. We're not asking for them to answer every individual question. But it's been over two days since that news post was made with no acknowledgement of the overall concern that nearly everyone in the comments there has expressed.

Especially regarding the concern about the wait times and trinket payout not happening. If that's a bug, is it going to be fixed or not? Is Masquerade going to get an extra day or two to make up for that or not? If staff is planning on doing something about that, it would be nice if they would tell us.

Even if it doesn't completely address all of the issues, at least SOME sort of statement would be nice. Instead, the lack of response has made many users feel like we're being completely ignored. We have no way of knowing if something is being planned to address our concerns if no one tells us anything.

I think my previous comment didn't address what I think is actually going on, but several people have touched on it in the thread. Putting it all together, and taking into account my own feelings, I'd like to make a suggestion... that maybe, this sort of site-wide malaise going around, this background anxiety, isn't about just the site's functionality, or even Staff's communication about it, but something a bit more "existential". Ok so just hear me out a second. I'm 33. Subeta has been around roughly half of my life. Many players are younger, and may have been playing since an even earlier age, making this website for us a constant, consistent, dependable, presence.

This year the world, the entire globe, changed. Everything has changed. And I don't know anyone (besides a few idiots perhaps) who aren't scared of what's going on in the world. And most people also realise that life may need considerable time to recover - for those that survive that is.

And then there was that post by Keith who was explaining that Subeta was facing some tough decisions in the near future, because the current business model isn't really working and financially it's a real struggle to keep Subeta afloat, even having to contribute quite a bit from his personal finances, if I understood correctly. Then this kinda big mess with the wardrobe, and uncertainty for a while there, if it could even be fixed. At the same time there's a whole new wardrobe, which kinda just feels like - to me - I might have liked some time for an excitement build-up. And it was indeed mentioned that it wasn't originally planned to be released quite so early but other problems brought the timetable up. So when the semi-usual lagging during this current event comes and joins aaaaaall of that... It feels like the one safe thing, the one thing that we can trust to still be here tomorrow, might be about to go poof too, it brings anxiety to a boiling point.

I couldn't understand at first why there was just quite so much fuss over each individual issue. Even the item deletions problem - I mean, you guys would have found a way to fix it in the end no matter how long it would take after all. But now I get it. And I feel it too. Our whole lives have changed. I'm anxious all the time. I even feel anxious about the amount of pressure I imagine you guys, the Staff, are probably under, on top of the same fears every other human is facing.

The Subetan "population" has grown over the years, but at the end of the day, between Staff and users, there should still be that openness about stuff, like there always used to be and perhaps has been a little harder to come by as Staff gets stretched thin, etc. It's not exactly a burden you should be responsible for, , but like it or not you're kind of the head of the community, because community it is, and should remain. Would it be helpful perhaps to have a news post that's a direct conversation from you to us, about what the current situation is actually looking like as to the future for Subeta, and about Staff facing the same problems as everyone in their home lives, and maybe a rallying message of hope that no matter what, whatever may lie ahead for us all, what will survive regardless are the relationships? Because that's what makes Subeta the "bestest of the bests". And the minions. Love the minions.

Could I be reading too much into it and over-dramatising? ^_^ Yeah! But maybe it's still a theory worth entertaining for a second?

I've read both of your comments, they're encouraging but to be fair...

Staff may be losing a lot of trust with how things have gone down in recent months.

First it was the Survival debacle. That angered members of a group that Subeta claimed to be a safe space for as well as people who took the 13+ age recommendation for the site seriously.

Then the wardrobe mess went down, which was just poor decision making all around.

Now this downtime. Frankly we WERE warned about and given the reason for doing so (to make backups for new wardrobe), but the massive errors that have resulted from it have made it look like it was better to just leave things be until Masq was over, especially since the userbase was JUST getting over the shock of the missing wardrobe items.

I won;t be surprised if staff adds extra compensation alongside the promised extra GA time.

- Thank you for your comment. I probably do sound a bit like I walk around with rose-coloured glasses, huh! ^^ So I apologise if I come off as devaluing people's concerns. ❤️

Are we also aware that Subeta is not a money making machine? Do you see how many users are online? They aren't pulling in big bucks where they can hire multiple programmers to fix things. We're lucky Subeta is even surviving at this point, look at how petsites are doing right now.

Don't get me wrong, they are a business and owe their customers something, but they've said they're working on it. I'd rather they get the site working than update me with every little thing. Why would this be the end? Because the sites going down? If this was the end would they have released new art a couple of weeks ago? Like come on.

I can recall several of those cycles. A thread with a complaint of lack of communication was made, hundreds of replies, staff apologising and promising better. Actually doing it right for a couple of weeks/months, and then gruadually postponing the updates, until they completely disappear again. Latest example: the weekly updates of Amber and Bug. Appeared after a complaint, up to date for a while, then quietly disappeared.

That being said. I'm still here. I'm confident we'll get apologies again. I'm confident we will get compensation / extra masquerade time. I'm confident we'll get promises of doing better. Just the value of those isn't as good as it was before. Because, we've been there before. Cycle repeats.

That's why I made this thread. Because it's been one thing after another. It's been getting bad around here for a couple years now. This was what finally made me flat-out anxious. I've put so much time into this site, and I had to know if I was going to have to start the grieving process essentially because of silence from staff.

I don't expect the programmers to respond, but I do expect the damn owner of the site, Keith, to say something. But thank you At least somebody finally spoke up after all this silence. I'm sick and tired of the lack of transparency, when y'all used to be so good with it years ago. What has happened to you guys?

I'm going to echo a little bit bit; I've been on subeta for a bit over 14 years now, and I joined subeta when I was just about 11 years old - back when subeta was actually PG and not PG-13, lol. I have a lot of found memories of subeta, and it was a constant throughout most of my life, especially when I was going through a lot as a teen. However, I do think it's important to remember that nothing is forever: entropy is an inevitability, and - if subeta is on this path - sometimes it is better to remember the fun times you've had rather than dwell on the future. To put it quite bluntly, pet sites and forums are not doing great. Neopets is long past it's prime, and gaiaonline is just chugging along at a slower pace than ever. Subeta is both things.

If memory serves, Keith has stopped taking a pay check from subeta for a few years now due to other focuses in real life (different main job I think?) and I do think it is important to remember that Keith started subeta when he was 16 and he's kept the site up for long since then. Pet sites are not doing well and I am sure subeta is not bringing in a lot of funds. Honestly, I am not sure how to fix this. I'm sure tension within staff has been quite high from that alone, and I can't imagine how things are going globally are compounding on that. I'm a student in university and an essential worker with a lot of vulnerable family,, and I've been stressed beyond belief: it's not an excuse, but I do think it's an important factor to consider.

It does feel like there is a lot of big factors going on in the background that it might be beneficial for us to know (good or bad... I've stuck through the longcat fiasco, which almost looked like the end...), but I can understand the difficulty in doing weekly updates. It feels like the site has been more in a "constant" mode trying to keep the site up than updating (beyond new pets and items), so honestly... sometimes there might be no real "progress" reports, other than fiddling with code, and trying to get the site to work the way intended.

I remember on another big pet site it started the same way, constant problems with the site, servers etc. etc. there were announcements from tnt what everything was going to be done, then promises and then the game was sold. since then the site has been vegetating and you only go back because you have invested years of time and money. Now it looks the same here and I can fully understand the question. she wanted to ask, but hope dies last.