The front page (unlogged-in) had a tiny makeover a couple of months ago to include all the current newsposts, along with a few cosmetic changes. While a good idea in theory, every news post, good and bad, is visible to someone new coming to the site, including the comments - which are often rife with arguing and complaints. Not a good look! I think news posts should be removed from the front page entirely, or else those that remain visible on the front page should be cherry-picked by staff.

Perhaps if every major site update wasn't advertised to the world, staff would be more willing to post big news/problems/downtime/etc as an actual newspost vs a forum post? While forum posts are fine, every time there's a major kerfuffle there are users who get left behind on important information because they don't check the forums. I think it would be amazing if everyone could be on the same page during major site events to avoid necessary anger, confusion, rumors, etc. Everyone sees news posts, while not everyone checks forums or sees forum pings.

I kind of disagree with the idea of staff censoring what news people see before they sign up. Yeah, it makes Subeta look great if the only things that show up are good things, but when the user ends up signing up, it then makes the site look really bad. "Why did they hide this?" "Why didn't they let me see this?" Staff shouldn't be publishing content they're embarrassed to post to the news ANYWAYS.

If anything, maybe comments should not be public, but the news posts themselves should. If you want to see what the community is up to, you need to be a part of it. But otherwise, all news, good or bad, should be visible I think.

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I'm also not sure if I've missed something somewhere, but did staff actually say this is why they're refusing to use the news, or is it an assumption / guess?

Perhaps it's time for staff to split the news into two pieces. "News" which would contain new items, events, new features, etc. And "Site Updates" which would contain information on bug fixes, beta testing, etc. And then both should have the "New News" / "New Site Update!" event and both would also appear on the news page (maybe with different colored titles or boxes, or even with toggleable columns or something like the event bar has?). I don't even think there should be an option to opt out either since it's 1 click, and if you are too lazy to read, just navigate away, but at least you know where it is.

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Of course, all this rides on the idea that staff wants to communicate (as we've been begging for, for literal years now, if not a decade or more) and that they'd be willing to actually do something about it finally.

I think it's real disappointing that this situation has left need to brainstorm ways to make staff look better so we can still bring in new users to this dumpster fire we're dealing with. If staff would listen and communicate, there would be nothing we'd need to hide in the first place. Every site has downfalls and bad times, but it's how it's dealt with that actually matters, and people should be able to see what actions staff is taking during hardship (in this case, we're seeing very little on our sides, and feeling the effects of very little. If we were given updates, it would mean the world and really change a LOT of people's outlooks, mine included.)

I can totally see what you're saying, and I don't really support censoring newsposts, but optics is a part of advertising. Subeta needs new users, and I would prefer that new users be enticed by the front page with info about its functionality (pets, wardrobe, events, lore etc) - then ease into any problems the site may be currently experiencing after they've signed up. I just don't want potential new users to be scared off by a news post about a temporary (edit) glitch or problem. Even if it's being resolved, why would anyone sign up with the knowledge that they're barreling right into an dysfunctional site? Even regular news posts often have a lot of toxic comments in them which are completely visible on the unlogged-in front page, which I don't feel represent the community as a whole and might scare new users off.

[edit] More important than the site not putting it's "best foot forward" to potential new users, I don't want "bad optics" to hold staff back from making news about important site updates in the actual news posts.

I don't think staff have made any mention about refusing to use the news. I've just noticed a lot of user complaints about not utilizing news posts for better communication/transparency, so I put 2+2 together. I could be completely off in my assumption.

I feel like staff has done a lot to increase transparency in the last 6 months or so, while still making some missteps. Improvements are being made, but I think that posting big site updates, like the wardrobe glitch, server moves, etc, in the news for better visibility would be a good step forward from where we are now.

As I said in the previous post, the way staff HANDLES the issue shows a LOT of information to users who are considering signing up. Censoring what shows up in the news (removing any sign of hardship, especially things like the wardrobe issue we had recently) would be a huge red flag for new users.

If I signed up to a site that had nothing but perfect news posts on the outside, but was rotten on the inside I would leave immediately.

There are two parts that users are asking from staff, and have been asking from staff; Communication and TRANSPARENCY

Hiding the news so new users have to get got before they can see what the site actually is, is NOT being transparent with them.

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Subeta is a game. So think of it in terms of being a game. If you went to Steam and saw a game you were interested in, and you did your basic research to check out what the game was like on the store page you'd see: All the games news, good and bad. User reviews of the game, uncensored, good or bad.

Yeah it would probably be amazing for those games if they didn't have to show their bad news, and if all their reviews from the community were positive, but then they'd be falsely advertising the game they were providing you.

Again, I'd be down for not allowing the comments on news to be public (since that's the 'community' and not the site itself) but I'd also be down for more strict rules / moderation of those comments too, because sometimes people do get really out of hand and it gets left for 48+ hours before staff realizes what's happening. Maybe a mini mod specifically for news should be hired.

(Of those things you mentioned users being enticed by; pets are barely being worked on, new ones barely get added and we've been left on silent mode about non-unique pet names so people are still in eternal battle over them. don't get me started on the wardrobe, the current event is lag and non-functional for the majority of users, and the lore barely gets touched as well, but what does exist probably also exists offsite so why bother signing up if that's all you're after. So it feels a little bit of a lie to entice people in on any of those things currently. And personally, I think it's really telling if site functionality isn't making the list of enticing features, but instead is in the category of 'hiding it from the front page'?)

Also I don't mean to come across as a shit, even though I know I do. I over explain all the time and I'm really not good with people and I haven't left this apartment in 2 weeks and I only have been able to talk to 1 person irl the whole time so I'm struggling a bit to people if I'm honest. More than usual anyways. I do genuinely see your hopefulness and applaud it, I just don't think right now is the best time for it, when we're waiting another 24+ hours for an actual update and maybe at least just for me, the site is worse today than it was yesterday.

(Side note I will throw out that has gotten 10/10 better with communication in the last six months, as have some of the moderators such as who I see around a lot. So the issue isn't everyone obviously, but it's often times the people who matter who are MIA.)

Very true, the way staff handles issues does show a lot of information, but I posit that someone who isn't yet part of the site may not be able to process all the context or make a truly informed decision based on news posts alone. Especially going off of comments/complaints, but I could see how being able to see the posts themselves and how staff is communicating with the user base could be really helpful to a potential new user! Perhaps your suggestion of news posts visible minus user comments would be a better compromise.

Your comparison to reading reviews before buying a product is a good one, but since users aren't required to pay anything to sign up or use (almost) any function of the site, I think it's a little harsh to put subeta in the same league as a paid service. For what it's worth ($0, technically) subeta actually provides a lot of usability and function. Honestly, even when things aren't being worked on, there's still a lot of usable, valuable functions like pet profiles, wardrobe, etc - lol obviously during THIS particular moment in time when everything's broken isn't a good example, but in general the basic functions subeta offers are actually pretty cool for a free site. Even if newsposts remain on the front page, a good solid revamp of what is seen by potential new users would be a good thing, but another topic entirely.

(Also, your input is not shit and I respect everything you have to say! Believe me when I say I understand about the struggle...I really shouldn't have posted this thread at all but I keep wavering between complete distraction/apathy about everything and intense focus/trying to make a difference, usually on things that don't really matter because I honestly CAN'T make a difference on anything that does matter right now. My timing was hella bad.)

Subeta is free to sign up to, but it contains 'micro transactions'. I play another game; Guild Wars 2, which is now free to play, but it has a cash shop. You can buy those 'gems' with in game gold if you're willing to grind for it, just like Subeta has with CSC! None of their items are 'required' to play the game, just like with Subeta. I can't think of a single cash shop item here that you HAVE to have to play, just things that make the game play more fun or convenient. GW2 still has reviews on it though, and doesn't censor public opinions. (Other examples of this off the top of my head are Destiny 2, and Creativerse!)

It's important I think to note that while you don't 'pay' anything to sign up to a free to play website like Subeta, you do lose something, and that's your personal information. (Name / birthday / email, for example) If you decide you want to leave, that information is here permanently. That's why I think users should be able to make a fully formed opinion!

Maybe I'm the odd one out, but I never make a purchase / sign up for something unless I've done at least a few minutes of research. When I was younger I signed up to a lot of pet sites because they were my jam (Subeta is now the only petsite to hold my heart lmao) but I'd always skip the ones where I couldn't see the news. I wanted to see how active the site was, and if it was being worked on before I signed up. I suppose that's why I'm so adamant about it now. x'D I know if Subeta was missing that information when I came across it... I'd have skipped it.

Bad suggestion imo. I could see comments being unviewable if you aren't signed up on the site, but taking them away altogether takes away another source for talk and discussion. Not everyone wants to use the forums...or can't, if they get the forum privilege revoked (which is why the news page still needs to have some kind of link to admin posts on it because of this!). Sometimes it's easier to give feedback directly in a news post than make a forum thread.

Comments are the least likely reason why someone won't sign up or stick around. The site constantly lagging, crashing etc. and staff being MIA and barely acknowledging anything is wrong is more of a reason I wouldn't join this dumpster fire.

To clarify, I only proposed removing the news posts front the front page if you're not logged in, to focus on why potential new users should join. Definitely don't want to remove them altogether for users that are already signed up and logged in! I pointedly mentioned that I want them to be utilized more vs forums.

It doesn't matter if potential new users see negative posts before joining or not. Either they see the negativity straight away, or they sign up and then see it and somehow that would be better? Even if the front page was all unicorns and rainbows, new users aren't going to stick around if the site is a laggy buggy mess. Subeta doesn't benefit from people who sign up then never play.

(I mean, imagine a new user joining right now, but they can't see anything about the current problems. They'd join, wonder why they couldn't get anything to load, wonder why half the links on site were broken, and probably give up and leave long before they stumbled into the Site Feedback forum or the admin posts that would tell them what was going on.)

I've played and loved plenty of games that were buggy trainwrecks and/or poorly reviewed, but I purchased and played those games knowing what to expect. In fact, for nearly every game on every platform you can easily find dev posts, patch notes, etc. outlining stuff like bugfixes. It's not a negative thing for players to see devs addressing problems, it's a selling feature. Gamers like development! If I bought a game thinking it would be one thing, only to find out the devs were intentionally hiding bug reports and censoring negative reviews? I'd be pretty pissed off and if possible I would refund my purchase.

The reason there aren't a lot of new players is because it's an old game. Most pet/avatar site players have already tried it. Plenty of those people played Subeta for years and have now moved on to other things. (Plus many have avoided Subeta because it has such a poor reputation.)

tl;dr Trying to trick newbies into joining won't help anything.

Honestly? I don't like it when sites block access to comments and forums before you sign on, so you have no idea if they're active, a toxic mess, or an empty graveyard. (I like it even less when they block you from seeing even what pets are on offer, but that's another subject.) If you don't let potential users see new updates then they might miss something that entices them to join, like a new pet or set of clothes.