I have been on hiatus for a while and have been reading the forums. There seems to be a lot of tier 10/11/12 weapons released. Has there been a release of original Godlies? I feel like some of the Pseudo Godlies have essentially replaced Godlies (i.e. ME replacing SSB/Ornamental Hooks replacing OSoE).

Which ones are the rarest/worth?

@ Sincere Subetalodge has a list of weapons sorted from new to old: url=https://www.subetalodge.org/list_weapon/sort/subeta_id-desc/rhigh/999/excludeub/true[/url]

There's been some weapons released in the past few years, but only a few are T10 and above.

There hasn't been a release of the original godlies since Fall 2009, when a wave of 10 M-staffs and 10 O-staffs went in the crystal shop.

The original godlies are only in the hands of very few battlers; and many are veterans from the pet-focused days and aren't active now. Same with Sandreaver, which is a plot boss godly but only 10+1 complete gentech components were released I believe. A P-wand for 250k csc around a couple years ago, so yeah they are godly priced too.

The other plot boss godlies were released to the top damage dealers. (Edit: I don't remember the exact figures, Subetalodge said top 75.) These are the Skelly Staff, Ancestral Unrest, and Malhuili. They are already very difficult to find nowadays. They started around 300-500m, but are well over 1b now.

There are achievement godlies such as the Maniacal Essence, Cronus Blade, and Manifesting Weapons. Also, the Millionaire Center and Antique Shop has some as well. I wouldn't say they replaced the others above, but since they are accessible to all battlers you see them being recommended in virtually every armory.

Golly, thanks for the awesome summary! Feel like I am all caught up! Can't believe unrest and skelly are 1 bn.

A bit surprised about the 250k CSC.

You're welcome Yeah, it changed hands again for several times more than it previously was. The buyer also went on an indefinite hiatus this year.

There been some talk about plot weapons returning, but it's still in the possibility realm: https://subeta.net/forums.php/read/900759/General-Updates-April-20

I think you meant a different staff, or p-wand? Not prodigys staff

The battle admins won’t want to bring back the OG god weapons, even though there is no good reason for why not. I would be happy with more alternatives that are similar to OG godlies but they won’t do that either.

Thank you, I meant to say P-wand.

Yeah, it's been ten years since the last batch was released, and I think it's way past time to have a complete set of alternatives that are comparable to those weapons.

I've voiced my opposition to the BAs' decision in this forum before, because it makes very little sense. The BAs are more or less telling us that they value veteran players more than current ones, even though many of those veterans aren't even playing anymore. If newer players don't have realistic access to weapons like these, then those players are effectively always operating at a suboptimal level below that of veteran battlers, with no way to catch up. Besides, it's not like most veterans ever intend to sell their god weapons. And if the weapons were rereleased, those veterans aren't losing their prized weapons. The weapons themselves will just lose a bit of their exclusivity value, which is a small sacrifice to make for the long-term positive impact it will have on the high-level battling scene. They could also choose to release alternate weapons with comparable power levels, but for some reason they don't want to do that either? I don't really see the logic, unless they're trying to keep the top-level battling community as some kind of exclusive hipster club.

To offer an anecdote, I play a card game called Magic: The Gathering. I've written a lengthy backstory for context which can be skipped, but I'll put it in a spoiler tag just in case.

"Who the heck cares about nerdy card games, just get to the point!!" you may be saying now.

Anyway, for the expensive Magic cards that haven't been reprinted in two decades, the prices have inflated drastically, especially in the past few years. Most players who don't already own the cards aren't willing to spend $5,000 to $20,000 on a game unless they earn a six-figure income, which means that the influx of new players into the more expensive tournament formats is more of an extremely slow trickle. Those formats have almost completely died off for the most part, with the most dedicated player base primarily consisting of old-school players who were fortunate enough to buy the cards before they were astronomically expensive.

I see Subeta's battling system operating in a similar manner. With the best weapons being locked behind absurd prices or abysmally low quantities in circulation, the vast majority of battlers will be left behind with suboptimal sets and fewer players will feel motivated to reach the highest tiers of battling. In other words, these few veterans with their god weapons are all playing Vintage, while the rest of us are stuck playing Modern.

There isn’t a single opponent that requires og god weapons to beat. They’re vintage artefacts and there are much better weapons now. You obviously have no idea what you’re talking about. Your pet is your best weapon, invest your money there

No single weapon is a game changer. You need a coherent set and all the godlies that have been released after the so called "OGs" will take you to the highest level of battling there is, if you have the pet to go with. Plenty of room there even with the cap in place to become a top battler and destroy HSTs and bosses if that is your ambition.

There was a test rerelease with SoSS and Wrath in the Antique Shop and in the years they have been in there, maybe 4 or 5 have sold. People just like to complain

Why should I be forced to settle for second best? If you're going to do something, do it well.

Those rereleases are fine; at least they're obtainable. I'd be fine if the god weapons were available, but extremely expensive.

"Invest in your pet" is a braindead statement, because everybody already does that

But answer me this. What's the downside to rereleasing god weapons in a way that keeps them rare and expensive, but still attainable?

[Item=sandreaver][Item=Oracles staff of enlightenment]

These 4 actually arguably do not have adequate replacements. I've borrowed 3/4 for HSTs. What I was surprised about was that when I borrowed Kwand that I was actually pretty underwhelmed by it.

• Sandreaver/WoTP with no other ice blockers. (I think sandreaver also has an insane blessing attached to it, but I think its the only weapon I have never tried out myself.)
• MStaff is a game changer compared to DGR (Although this is the most replacable of the 4). If they narrowed the icon spread on DGR down to 3 icons, it wouldn't feel so janky.
• Ostaff has insane blessing uptime with built-in parched when you get to high enough speeds.

What I think is particularly annoying is that Sandreaver somehow got elevated to the status of OG god, even though it seemed like it was going to be in the rerelease cycle like ME when it first came out... The components of the Sandreaver are even decent Tier 9 and 10 weapons that have either gone extinct or are paired together in accounts. Heck SoSS and Wrath were rarer and more exclusive, and practically OG gods at the time...

Otherwise I would agree that at least SBow and BStaff are relics, and if they would have rereleased Sandreaver, WoTP would have been a relic too. Leaving Ostaff as the only true god weapon that has a huge power gap between its demi god replacement.

Like has said, you don't need unobtainable god weapons to beat any opponent at least 10 times for max exp gain. The only real battling functions they serve is the ability to beat opponents when your pet is below the stats needed to beat them or to farm opponents to a ridiculously high number of battle wins. The latter is even disputable as to being achieved with the right battle scrolls.

You cannot directly compare Magic with subeta weapons. Although there are some really good cards worth an absurd amount of money because they are OP, there are also thousands of other cards that are really good. Subeta only has a handful of equivalent weapons but most are just garbage, even the lower tier stuff they have been releasing. Those cards are also banned in a lot of tournaments so they are just collector's items really. If Subeta were like Magic, then they should release more alternatives that maybe aren't as OP but that are actually good to use.

I agree there is no real ice blocker replacement. Malhuili may be the only one (you have the syringe but seeing as cronus also blocks magma and is a god weapon, the magma block on the syringe becomes redundant). However, malhuili is also a retired event prize. I would argue that DGR and OHS are good enough that you don't need ostaff or mstaff. But you do need to beef up scrolls and I do hate the heal on DGR. It would have been better to give it a flat rate of 8%.

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I will give the battle admins some credit that they have tried to do unique things with weapons - rotating defense icons, hard hitting but damages your pet, changes stats when you are below a certain % health. The problem is all the challengers are built the same way. In order to make them hard, they do a lot of damage across multiple icons so you are never in a situation where you don’t want a consistent block and heal.

There’s two for sale right now, go buy them !

By all means don’t settle for second best, come and get me ;)

You don’t even have a T11 pet, you couldn’t equip a single of these weapons you’ve apparently been spending years « voicing your opinion » to staff to rerelease. Investing in your pet comes in other ways than using the training center and doing battle quests and will be the biggest game changer you’ll ever get

Pretty much everyone at the top of every HST right now doesn’t have the weapons you mention, so there are definitly replacements. Not weapons that do the exact same thing, but weapons you could use instead effectively

Where is a 100 icon ice blocker a deal breaker ? For realsies people.

Don’t you deny me my right to collect all icon blockers, just because the only person it’s useful against is hoarfrost and maybe para rb, GoSh! Although the blessing on the dreamreaver makes it super useful for more than just an ice block.

Ah yes, there's the childishness that I've come to expect from this community And that means I can't give a factual analysis about the overexclusivity of certain items? Your responses are bafflingly illogical and irrelevant "You can't even equip a T11 weapon!!" Damn you're right, I guess that means I'll never conceivably have a T11 pet in the foreseeable future, and therefore have no business talking about T11 weapons "Wrath and SoSS are in the AS, that's good enough!!" What kind of garbage rationale even is this

Okay, god weapons don't necessarily need to be rereleased. My issue is more that a few of the god weapons don't have comparable replacements. For example, if I want a mass light blocker and can't find someone who will sell me their Mstaff, my next best option is DGR, which I guess is passable but not great. If the BAs released a T11 weapon that was somewhere between DGR and Mstaff in power level, that would be great.

Sure I can, they're fairly comparable

In Magic, there is no such thing as a "good enough replacement." I will admit that this is less true for Subeta than it is for Magic, but my primary point is that lack of supply drives prices through the roof, which in turn locks a lot of players out of playing that format, which damages its health and longevity.

But yes I agree, it would be fantastic to get more alternatives.

I 100% disagree with that. I will admit that I myself am not an avid Magic player, but I have a lot of friends that are that compete in tournaments and are actually really good. They by no means have the cards that are worth a small fortune, but they have invested hundreds of dollars, if not a thousand dollars, on building multiple dual color decks to fit their needs. You can say that subeta is like magic in that you don't need the best of the best to win, but that's it. If you want to have a strong Magic deck, you need to have a good mix of attack cards, support cards and resource cards. You are also allowed to have multiple copies of the same card, to some degree. The gauge for "good enough replacement" should not be whether or not it's a super rare card, but whether or not your deck is competitive enough to win tournaments.

Anyway, going back to subeta talk - At least we can all agree that we need better alternatives so not everyone is building the same set.

I also wanted to chime in a bit on this.

The issue I have is that people are grouping "rerelease" and "release replacements" together which is counterproductive to solving the issue. Since the majority of higher tier battling is done by longer term players, you end up with people only reading the "rerelease" part and knee jerking into disagreement. The best way to solve this issue is to provide replacements (in a similar vein as Cronus, ME, MW, Natasha, etc). They do meet the standard of "expensive but attainable", and they do transact (as someone who has bought and sold them often enough, there's a market there if you look). But when they get OGs price checked repeatedly in the $20B range and then the community threatens to make it like SoSS and WoK (which got rereleased at like $3B in the antique shop and still don't trade), I understand the push back.

Anyone else pushing for rerelease instead of replacement is just being selfish. There's an obvious better solution to the problem. It is unreasonable for people to want to wipe (supposed) tens of billions in value from some of subeta's most loyal players because they can't quest enough to buy the rarest items in two years.

I agree with and , well put.

Re-releasing is not "wiping" value, it's one option to create a market. Those godlies are not sell-able because 1) a lot of the people that have some are people that no longer play anymore. It feels like subeta is letting new players be punished by not re-releasing or releasing new alternatives just because they missed an event or didn't know about the site or didn't have a strong enough pet at the time. 2) people ask for 20+ billion sP. That is less than 1% of subeta users, of which only a handful care about weapons. You can ask for as much as you want, still doesn't mean you will find a buyer. There are custom wears with less copies on site or equivalent that sell for at most 10k CSC. There are outliers to that, but what is the difference between buying an old weapon and buying original art? The only people that suffer are the battlers.

If you want to help both the owners of old godlies and new battlers, then you need to make those weapons more marketable.

The OHS, Ether, Swashbuckle and Natasha are all readily available and block 90-100 icons of one type. Then there's DGR and Cronus which you'll get if you're serious about battling and train your pet. The Manifesting Weapon is a bit more limited, but can safely be assumed to be available once per year and requires you to be serious about battling. Then the Hydragellos Core / Maniacal Essence is a bit more tricky. You can't anticipate so you might miss the event due to real life stuff. Plus it can be tricky for a new battler to score enough points to win the Core. But it's still sort of available.

My problem lies with the ice blocker. The only weapon which is comparable to the category of the above mentioned weapons is the Sandreaver / Wand of the Phoenix.

I have a tier 13 pet and with my current weapons I can beat all the opponents I want. So the Sandreaver / Wand of the Phoenix is obviously not essential to beating anything. But still, it bugs me that for most of the other icons there are readily available blockers which a high block in that one icon type. For ice blocking, we have to make do with the syringe (which is a very good weapon in my opinion. I use it every day) or the Glacial Ring (which doesn't reliably attack or heal). I don't want a rerelease of the old weapons (though it would certainly be nice, and I'd try to buy them just for the sake of collecting as many high end weapons as possible), but I want something that blocks somewhere between 40 and 100 icons of ice, has a decent attack and heals. You could even make the heal less than the syringe, so that it should be a choice which of the two you bring into battle.

I like the a lot. It was released when the Deluxe Death Shard had a monopoly (correct me if I'm wrong). Now we've gotten more alternatives, like the Gorgun and the Scientist Specs which fulfill the same role but are slightly different and are available at different tiers. The Wheeley is still very much viable as a t5 freezer, but alternatives exist so it doesn't matter that it's very hard to find a Wheeley for sale. Oh, it's available in the shop search, nevermind. Point though, is that nobody complains about the Wheeley toy, while the old godlies are complained about. And for me it matters that there are alternatives for some, while others don't have alternatives.

It's cool to have powerfull weapons which are unavailable due to being old plot prizes or only very few being released. But at some point some equivalent needs to be released (maybe also as a plot prize or very rare item) so that the newer battlers have the opportunity to own something equivalent.

To offer a bit of background, I've been competing in national tournaments for a decade now, and have invested thousands into optimizing my decks. My three most competitive decks are currently worth over $10,000 each. Competitive Magic has been my number one passion throughout my entire adult life.

A "good enough replacement" is often a deciding factor in determining whether or not a deck is competitive enough to win tournaments. If you enter a Vintage tournament without spending $20,000 on a set of Power Nine, then you will lose 99 percent of your matches to opponents who did. This is a fact. If you bring Grixis Control to a Legacy tournament with $10 Steam Vents and Watery Graves instead of $400 Volcanic Islands and Underground Seas, then you will lose a huge number of percentage points because your mana base is now incidentally damaging you. This, too, is a fact.

But yes, I do believe that diversity will improve the overall health of the battling scene. I'd like to thank everyone in this thread, particularly , , , and , for contributing to the discussion. You've all been very civil, and I feel like this has been a very positive and constructive conversation!