I've recently started making custom wearables, and I think the inclusion of official avatar templates for dark-skinned bases would be immensely helpful – not just for myself, but for everyone making and buying CWs. Currently, there's a female template and a male template, but they're both very pale. Given that the CW submission process has a step where you can preview your item on both female/male bases and light-skinned/dark-skinned bases (on dark and light backgrounds), it would make sense for those dark-skinned bases to be officially provided.

While making my CWs but prior to submission, I've been previewing the items on dark-skinned bases through a workaround: I took a screenshot of my avatar, brought that into Photoshop, color-picked the skin tone, and used that color to color-fill a multiply layer clipped to the pale avatar templates. This is a little more trouble than I would have liked to go through in order to preview my items on a darker-skinned base – and I would guess that if it's not already a priority for someone making CWs, they're probably not going to go through that trouble.

Beyond the minor inconvenience of having to do all of that manually as a CW creator, my concern about the lack of dark-skinned avatar templates also comes from being a buyer of CWs. There are wonderful items that I would love to buy... but the creators have unfortunately not thought about people wearing these items on darker-skinned avatars. This happens very frequently with makeup, but I understand that some makeup can be skin-tone-specific. Most items have no reason to be skin-tone-specific, though – for example, sweaters that modify the arms/hands so that they're held in front of the chest in some way. When creators choose to show the hands (instead of having the hands inside sleeves), often they'll be pale hands – which is disappointing to see when I preview the item on my darker-skinned avatar.

I've seen some artists take a wonderful solution, though. They'll just make the hands transparent, which makes the item work with avatars of all skin tones. These are some I've seen:

I think that if official dark-skinned avatar templates were provided alongside the light-skinned templates, it would prompt more CW creators to plan for their items to work well on dark-skinned avatars. It would also hopefully get artists to think about how to make their items more inclusive. Is it possible to achieve the same makeup effect through different layer modes and to make it work on more skin tones? Is it possible to use transparency in items that would otherwise be defaulted and exclusive to pale skin tones? These are questions that might be asked more frequently if dark-skinned avatar templates were included in the official resources.

Definitely open to discussion about this thought! I really hope no CW creators out there feel like I'm attacking or criticizing them for not thinking about this stuff in the past – I just want CW items and the CW resources to be more inclusive when it comes to this, so I'm hoping there can be a productive conversation about it and about how to get there.

Absolutely support--I think having an officially-provided template with dark skin will encourage CW creators to think about how their items and designs look on those bases. It seems like a blind spot that can be easily accounted for.

Yes!! Super support this! <3 <3 Especially if it'll help encourage CW makers to consider darker skin tones when making their pieces. <3

Absolutely. While I use skintones from the entire spectrum, I'm mostly hanging out in my IRL range of about 6-9.

We're here, we're playing the game, and though every makeup item might not fit for us (& it doesn't have to), it couldn't hurt to make it easier for creators to see if something does

i agree... and disagree. not because i think it's a bad idea, but because 1. the workaround is just as good, and 2. the problem is a bigger one than simply a mindset. it's the whole culture of the CW approval party (this is an OPINIONATED answer, please do not take it as law, and feel free to disagree with me)

for BLUSHES/body/face items, the problem is that the approving party doesn't really mind if an item doesn't work with one or the other. as long as it looks okay on one, the approval goes through. ^ i believe that what COULD change their mind is the approving party requiring the item to sit nicely on all base colours. however, i know that not all colours will naturally work for darker bases. such is just... the law of colour???? idk man. anyhow if nothing is done about this, artists wouldn't see the need to take time to accommodate it.

for BODY MODS, the problem is that every submitted SKIN TONE OF BODY MOD requires an individual submission with an individual submission price. this will lead to artists/commissioners only choosing to sell what would reap the highest profit, and this unfortunately means that only the lighter bases will sell. i have seen attempts to sell darker colours, and they rarely work, so people don't try it any more. ^ im of the staunch opinion that SKIN TONE body mods should be submitted with a discount. this opens the can of worms that we're underpaying the approving party for the same amount of work, so i'm not going to push for it. however, it is my faint hope that the approving party wouldn't mind taking a cut for the sake of inclusion, and that it would one day happen. if not, i think as much as people would love to submit darker bases, they just... financially can't.

so yeah, i'm in approval of what you're getting at, but i think such a small solution wouldn't change anything. but who knows... maybe this is the baby step that's needed for a bigger change. i dunno.

I didn’t know it wasn’t even an option! Definitely something that should be fixed. Couldn’t all of the skintones be available instead of just one or two? If there’s one might as well have them all.

I love the CWs that have transparent hands, it’s creative and inclusive- I’m actually surprised to see wears with hands over the face or chest that have a specific skin tone instead of being transparent. I’m glad CW makers seem to be onboard for this trend.

I agree with your points except I think even if it didn’t fix the general mindset it’s worth it. If the only large resolution base is a pale base it’s just weird to not have the other options, there no good reason to not have them all be available just on principle. And in the end there shouldn’t have to be extra steps to use a darker base at all, and intentionally leaving it that way would be a roadblock against the diverse user base of the site, even if that’s not the intention of staff that would be a result.

I love your idea of skin tone body mods being submitted at a discount!! That would go pretty far making body mods for a wider range of bases! It would be an incentive to make body mods for the colorful bases too.

I don't see any reason why a base with a darker skin tone couldn't be provided, but I don't think it would necessarily fix any of these problems. nailed it with the body mod CWs. People only submit things that will actually fill batches, and unfortunately, that's often bases 2 and 3 OR sometimes just whichever base the releaser happens to use because they want the item whether or not it will fill. Transparent hands are a great workaround when possible, but when they're not, I just don't think there are enough people willing to slot on items with dark-skinned hands, especially when a specific color will only work with that specific base. I just don't see that changing unless the submission system were changed :/

I agree 100%

I don't think all items need to look perfect on every base tone, many subeta items don't. The option to preview something on a dark base and work from that should absolutely be there, and the thought that "people don't want items for dark skin tones" is a really lame argument lol

... I'm pretty sure you can save the darker HA bases anyways? Idk. Still, including the option would be awesome.

Only the small on-site versions, not the 250x500 versions people usually draw their CWs on.

you can but that only helps after you've resized whatever item you're working on.

anyways definitely support! there should be fullsize bases provided of every skintone imo. i'm kind of...shocked that there isn't? i mostly do accessories/animal mods so skintone is often irrelevant for me but it would be so much more convenient to have fullsize versions to preview stuff on.

somewhat related, i saw a suggestion board for pose mods that aren't layered across the base or chest that there should be a transformable option for exposed skin, and i still think that would be great as well. the idea that people have to slot on whole new items and pay an extra $5-$7 just to have more than one skintone for the exact same item is absurd (and that's only from the buyer's perspective, not even considering how much csc stuff costs to submit)

Ah, that I didn't know. I'm too out of the CW loop.

Again, I'm all for large, working size bases in multiple shades being readily available, so this is just for perspective on why it may not change whether CWs come out in certain skin tones. If there were enough people slotting to justify the costs, the items would likely already exist in a darker skin tone, but it gets expensive having recolors made if not enough people are willing to buy them to offset the cost

I totally agree that it's a larger problem than simply the resources not being available. There's more at play, both in the broader CW marketplace and in the approval process. I think you raise a ton of really good points, though I disagree that the workaround is just as good – in effect it does look the same, but as said, there shouldn't have to be extra steps to get there. Adding templates with darker skin wouldn't magically solve the larger problems by any means (and my bad if that's what my post implied!), but I think visibility is often the first step to changing those larger problems.

The idea of transformable pose mods that can change the skin color is brilliant. I don't know what that would take logistically, but I think it'd absolutely be worth it.

Transformable CWs is a great idea too!

i definitely want big versions of more skin tones, and have thought about asking for them in the past... i havent made any cws that needed them yet but when i do some makeups i have planned theyre going to be a must! i was intending to make my own by enlarging normal sized ones and just dealing with the blurriness but itd be much better to have crisp large versions, for every skin tone if possible, but even just in one dark skin tone in addition to the one pale one would be better than nothing.

I support having access to high res versions of all skintones, it'd be a great help, especially to new artists! And I agree, visibility is important even if it's not strictly "necessary."

For anyone that's disappointed about pale skinned hands on body mods, those have all but been phased out by CW makers/releasers, and instead we stick to covered hands or try to incorporate transparent hands. Obviously, most of us really want our items to appeal to as many people as possible! When body mods were first allowed, it was a bit of a learning curve to figure out that selling more than one or maybe two skintones for an item was nigh impossible, so the switch was made.

I would absolutely love transformable options for CWs, maybe for a small additional fee when submitting? Honestly, both body mods and makeups (like the recent dark/light Delish items!) would benefit from this, and it would give artists a lot more freedom with facial features and poses/types of body mod clothing. It's so frustrating to have to draw hands covered all the time!!

Maybe CWs can be submitted to a specific body mod category that allows this- even if it was a little more expensive, I feel like people would jump at the opportunity to release body mods and skintone items that can be used by any HA base. It would allow for so much more creativity.

PLEASE.

Here is a true story.

I didn't preslot on a dress I ended up really liking because the preslot preview was on a base that must have been either 1 or 2. Fortunately, I ended up being online when it was opened for slotting and didn't miss out on it, because the releaser made an additional preview with dark skin and I realised I would wear the hell out of that dress--it just looked awful to me on the pale template, but it looked amazeballs on my avatar.

I have also bought items that I ended up selling at a loss because they were fugocious on my main avatar and the pale characters I sometimes do avatars for would not have worn them.

I still see people releasing items that require you to be wearing bases 1-4 in the New CW approvals posts on a fairly regular basis. The transparency is so much better than covering the hands, but I've asked for a Delish/CI/Curios option to "transform" CWs before and everyone said the artists would hate it.

(My biggest pet peeve here is winter coats with pale hands when it's clearly obvious that if you're wearing a coat like that, you should also be wearing gloves if you don't want your fingers to freeze right off. Which would fix the entire problem for everyone.)

This option would also be great for makeups. I hate buying makeup when there isn't a dark-skinned preview image available and I can't try it on in the wardrobe or right click on it to get the item image itself, and therefore have no way of knowing whether the item will cover my face in random white pixels that are supposed to make pale avatars look *sparkly* I've kept some of those items for Mabel, Paz and my Malfoy girls, but I can't use them otherwise. I like the Sakura Compacts, but the white spots on those look deliberate and I use them for effect on my dark avatars.

said:

"It's not about whether or not people want items for darker skin tones as a general, sweeping statement. It's whether or not the people who would want to use the items are willing to buy CWs in the first place, and then also if they're willing to buy a given item in particular.

Again, I'm all for large, working size bases in multiple shades being readily available, so this is just for perspective on why it may not change whether CWs come out in certain skin tones. If there were enough people slotting to justify the costs, the items would likely already exist in a darker skin tone, but it gets expensive having recolors made if not enough people are willing to buy them to offset the cost"

The problem of CWs in darker skintones not selling as well as CWs in paler skintones is more complex than you think it is. There's no magic gene associated with melanin production that makes people less interested in buying CWs.

It's a matter of repeated disappointment leading to disinterest.

Lately, there has been more interest in darker skintones and natural hair because some new people have come into the CW scene who either are people of colour or are actively anti-racist and they are making cool things that people are buying.

The interest will grow when people see that more items are available to them to use.

People who like to make darker avatars, whether or not they are POC themselves, do not all have the same tastes, so you can't really gauge the interest in these items by how well specific recolours do. I don't buy a lot of contemporary fashion other than pinup and lolita, which I also wear IRL. Some people aren't into the fantasy/historical stuff that I love. So your dark-skinned recolours will be of interest to the subset of people who like to make darker avatars who also like to use the type of stuff you release, and that might indeed be a small group.

But encouraging people who like to make darker avatars to use CWs by showing your items on dark bases and not making items that require your avatar to be a white person can only increase the interest in items that are friendly to dark-skinned avatars--and bringing more of the people who want those items into the CW market.

The purpose of this thread isn't to put people down for releasing what they think will sell or what they personally like (although if you never make dark-skinned avatars, why not? It might be good for you to try it out--for contests and cosplays I have used almost all the existing bases, because it's fun to try different things!)

The purpose of this thread is to facilitate making items that are friendly to darker skintones for artists, and to facilitate making previews of items on darker skintones for those of use who'd like to know whether an item will work with the bases we use the most.

Also, people who like to use fantasy skintones (blue, grey, black as in rather than African ancestry, green, etc) have a lot of the same problems with items designed for bases 1-4 (and fantasy ) that people who like the darker natural skin tones have.

Well, I definitely won't claim to be hip to every single new CW that comes out, and I DID just see one (after my previous posting) that has light-skinned hands. So, I suppose I spoke prematurely about CW makers moving away from light-based body mods. :( That's disappointing, definitely.

I really like your comments about wanting to see previews on darker bases to see how the colors interact before buying, I'm definitely going to take that into consideration when previewing items from now on. I try to use a variety of bases for previews (for my own shop and for commissioners' shops), but I only do one base color per item as a preview, instead of showing the whole range (unless it's makeup). I think I'll start implementing a gif-style preview with multiple skin colors from now on!

EDIT: lol I forgot to respond to the part about transformables - no idea why artists would say they'd hate it, except for the very small extra amount of work for doing recolors for each skin tone?? I personally very much support transformable options for body mods especially, and it would be useful for make up too. I have heard something about possible work arounds for body mod items in the new version of the wardrobe that's coming out (whenever that will be), but I don't know if it has anything to do with skin tones or not. I don't think it would be beyond the realm of possibility for the CW submission form to be reworked a bit to include an option for uploading additional versions of the overlay. Even if there's a small fee associated with that, it would be worth it.