There is a rule in the CW Denial Guide that clearly states that makeup that gives the illusion of closed eyes will get denied. And yet... there are lots and lots of CWs that do exactly that, giving the illusion of closed eyes. So.... why does this rule exist? Let's get rid of it, please. It's not fair to allow some CWs and deny others. v.v

From my understanding, it was a rule instituted after many of those items were already on-site. I questioned it a couple months ago when I was commissioned to create a makeup and it was denied several times because it had no upper lashes and therefore could be used as a closed-eye makeup.

I brought up like 5 examples of items that had been approved in the prior 4 months that were no different than what I was trying to do and was told that those were mistakes and that, basically, unless I wanted to completely change the makeup, it wouldn’t be accepted.

So it’s still a rule, and as of a couple of months ago, they had started enforcing it again. Why it’s a rule, I have no idea. I wasn’t around way back when for whatever drama obviously unfolded in the closed-eye makeup scene XD

Are those recent examples? Because it wasn't a rule from the get go so it wouldn't be fair to list the ones that were approved prior.

Yes some are very recent (within the last few months)

I own a lot of the items listed and I love them but it does suck when some are approved and the rest are denied.

the and are less than 6 months old. Those were two examples I brought up when I questioned the rule previously!

Honestly I'm still waiting to know what the actual reason facial features aren't allowed is. I've seen a lot of "Just because" and really.... weird excuses like "They're too hard to regulate" (what does that even mean exactly?) and I'd just like to know from a staff stand point why they'll never be allowed legitimately so we can all just get over it and stop hoping it'll happen shrug

TBH I think cw artists being allowed to draw facial features would take a lot of pressure off of staff. It's hard to constantly come up with new eye types and that's why 90% of the Delish eyes look like copy pastes. I know the artist isn't doing that, but when you get comfortable... there is only so much you're venturing out of your comfort zone with. Plus the type of eyes I'd LIKE to wear on my HA will never in a million years be made by a staff member lmao.

and Thanks for confirming. I agree it sucks for the ones then that made it through after the rule. But I too don't remember the whole story behind why the rule had to be put in place. I can't speak for make-up CWs as I have always stuck to Backgrounds or foreground items. Can't retroactively remove or deny items without revolt.

I agree it’d be great to have a concrete reason but think of how much csc purchases would go up if we could do base features

I do agree there would be a huge boost in purchases if they did change this rule but also without knowing WHY it's not allowed, I'm mostly on the fence. If there is a legitimate reason we're not allowed to submit cw facial features that maybe I just haven't thought of, I'd respect staff if they'd just tell us =/

Man it would be so cool if there could be CW eyes, lips, and noses.

I agree if were given a concrete reason I’d respect it too, so hopefully if anything at all we’re given a final reason this time

I, too, am super curious about this rule. I've never really understood the reasoning behind this.

I know that there are already standards in place regarding the quality of the work and things being done in a specific style, as well as rules and decisions to prevent things that might be deemed inappropriate or offensive - I guess I don't really understand why those can't be applied to allowing facial features.

Back in the day, you had to have cutouts for the avatars and couldn't make items that could replace them, but that rule has gone by the wayside. As have the rules restricting us from making items that modify the base limbs. There's a profit to be made for Subeta in allowing facial features, the same as there was in making those other changes. It leads to more commission opportunities and more items being put on the site (and more slots being sold).

If there's a reason we're all not seeing as to why they're disallowed, I'd love to know what it is, because I can't think of one from any standpoint honestly.

Items like that were given a green light because they were intended as eyelashes to be worn with eyes/makeup. They were later banned (with some being allowed because they are recolors of items approved before the ban). Why some have been approved recently could be because of an "oh shit" moment, it happens. Shockingly, staff are human. Or it could be because they're testing the waters. I would personally also like to know.

However, they were banned because people went from "they are meant to be layered" to "these are meant to replace the eyes." It was honestly inevitable (give an inch, run a mile). We shot ourselves in the foot and then wondered how it happened. I had two items be given a damn-near permanent NOPE because of this reason. They didn't break the rules, and if someone else had submitted them they would have been approved. But given how the bottom lashes turned out it was too big of a risk and if others did something similar but not correctly, the backlash would have been Not Fun.

As someone that has fought with staff, sometimes to the point of being told to not push it anymore, for us to be allowed to do various things (limbs ! I got Jessi to approve limbs !); I'm still with them on not allowing these or other face items. "These are limited to staff only" is a clear, concise, rule whether or not one agrees. And it's not limited to just face items.

Isn't part of the reason why no facial features are allowed that with items this small it then gets pretty hard to control plagiarism accusations/drama?

I might be misremembering though.

My best guess is that this rule is out of date and involved something to do with layers--before people could move the layers around the way that they do now, perhaps?

It really annoys me, tbh, that this rule exists and is also applied so arbitrarily. This is also why people were so freaking mad about the cat nose custom designs (the humanoid cat nose "CW", not the muzzles that ARE in there) not being put in the Steamworks.

Someone I know had their CW denied because it could be used to give "the illusion of closed eyes" but it's an eyebrow item.

If I wanted to post an avatar without any eyes at all, I could do that.

I want to make a spot CW that's just shading for the appropriate skin tones (all of them) to cover up the lineart on the base that shows the ear, but I've not done it because I'm afraid it will be denied, even though it's a legitimate need.

Nobody who's gone to the trouble of putting a booty on should have to choose the wig they wear on the basis of whether or not it exposes the base ears and will make them look like a Mixed-Up Lunchables commercial.

At any rate, I don't understand why it's bad for us to close our eyes but we're allowed to turn ourselves into animals and that's just fine. We don't have to be human; why do we have to keep our eyes open?

- I'm curious as to why you support this rule. I think clear rules are just fine, but this is so arbitrary. Can you please explain what logic there is behind allowing people to give themselves wings, but not closed eyes? I have problems with rules, no matter how clear and concise they are, when they don't make sense. Anything potentially offensive could be denied for THAT reason.

One reason I want CW eyes is that I know they will never, ever, be revamped.

I agree the closed eye rule should be scrapped, so it's fair to everyone. And honestly it'd just be nice to be able to have input over what facial features are made, like an ideas box or something so the community can get involved and still have eyes accessible to everyone. I can kinda see the problem with CW eyes/ noses/mouths being a thing. It's a very small and limited space to work with meaning many more problems with overlap, I'd be interested to see it trialed but maybe with a restriction attached?

Sorry CW approval staff, but if you accepted some, even by mistake, you gotta reconsider about accepting others, for the sake of fairness, because right now, you're just reinforcing the opinion that you're playing favorites, and this isn't cool.

I don't see how mistakes being accepted means the rule needs to be reconsidered. We've had a lot of items accepted that simply don't meet standards now, that doesn't mean every sub-standard item needs to be considered anyway.

The rule could be looked at and reconsidered but not for the sake of items getting let in accidentally. That's not typically how rules for anything work.

I don't submit cws so I don't have a huge stake in this but I do find it bizarre that eyes, nose and mouth are 100% not allowed in cws, considering what else is allowed. Both limb-changing body mods and standalone eyebrows were once not allowed but are now fully allowed. Just weird that you can change literally anything else on the avatar, including most parts of the face, but not the parts of the face people want to customize the most.

To be honest, I don't buy the "it was a mistake" theory, but it's what was said by staff.

I would rather have heard something like "It was something we wanted to try, but after discussion, we decided to not go further on that route." rather than "lol we messed up"

It's several items, not just one, which makes me suspicious