Look I could sit on this thread reading every excuse about why the rule is in place but you know what, the rule is stupid. Get rid of it. I don't care if some items were grandfathered in before the rule. I don't care that a mistake was made during approval. I just think that rule is stupid. Next its going to be implied that certain eye types are considered offensive and thats why we can't have them.

The was the first instance of an item like this being uploaded and approved. It was made several years ago, but since closed eyes werent a thing, it was perceived by staff as just makeup. It wasn't until users were using it as closed eyes that staff realized that was its intended use. IIRC, staff said they wouldn't have approved it had they known that. I believe the rule for closed eyes was made after that, and makeup that resembled closed eyes had to clearly be makeup. The vast majority of these items have a ring of eyeshadow to make them look more like under eye liner with makeup as opposed to closed eyes.

My guess is that is why those were approved - they more clearly look and intend to be makeup.

My opinion is that all facial features should be allowed as CWs, including closed eyes. shrug emoji

I don't know why subeta hasn't allowed facial features. Is it because they will make the avatar look drastically different than non-cw ones? Are we worried about that?

because I think that ship has sailed with body mods I know subeta has tried to catch up a bit by releasing its own body mods (like jackets and sweaters, not just animal legs) but cw art, while accepted to subeta standards, isn't the same as subeta items

I can still look at an item and go well yeah that shading looks like a certain cw artist's because it's so distinct

so really I can't think of any reason to ban facial features anymore

CW rules are weird. I kinda agree with though. Staff has to be nice to all y'all even though you may or may not deserve it, so there has to be a point beyond which policies and procedures must be enforced and rules have to be rules. It's kinda too bad that it has to be this way, because CWs were originally meant to be for self-expression.

Maybe Subeta should just not have site standards and let people wear weird/oddly drawn stuff? Not everyone has to be ordinary.

If you want eyes that staff would never ever draw on their own, make a Suggestion? You can even cite some examples even if they're just you drawing them and posting them to Imgur or something. These things do happen.

I would love to be able to make CW eyes and mouths, mostly because plain lips and eyes without makeup are not nearly as likely to be made into official items. Like, I get it! The userbase is mostly femme! Making items that appeal to the majority of the userbase is how you ensure profits in order to make ends meet. But it also sucks for those of us that don't and won't use those items.

I just want to make a smiling HA that doesn't wear lipstick, but still has lips! I just want to make an HA without eye makeup that doesn't also have angry eyebrows! I just want to make HAs like that without using the same 2-3 items!

Please :/

I'm the one that mentioned this and I think I may have confused you, I'm sorry! The reason staff will not draw the eyes I want is because they're my specific art style. I'm not interested in or even comfortable with suggesting to a staff member that they copy my art style and mass produce it onsite. Hope that explains what I meant!

I am geniunely confused on why some makeups are denied for this reason alone, when the submitters specificly stated and provided examples that prove the said makeup CANNOT be used as closed eyes? I also own some of the makeups listed in the first post. Those makeups clearly can be used as closed eyes. If you are going to deny a cw for this silly imo reason, then please be consistent.

I also don't understand why facial features such as eyes/nose/lips are banned? There's a claim that there are hundreds of eyes/lips/noses we can choose from, yet lots of them look old and unproportional. I rarely buy the new one bc I cannot use them as much as I like (they also look very similar to each other).

I think I'm in the minority in saying that I hope this rule doesn't change. The ban on facial features in general, not just the closed eyes thing. The fact of the matter with facial features is that, noses and mouths especially, there's only so many ways you can draw them until they start blurring together and you get into copycat and art theft accusation territory. And with the option of items being highly exclusive, you'd end up with certain items being completely unobtainable but also being the only item on site to even remotely resemble a certain type of nose or mouth.

Say you have a uniquely shaped nose IRL. You see an item on-site that looks like your nose and you're so excited because you never see noses like yours represented, and you go to buy the item right away only to learn it was a private CW with only 5 copies going out to friends, no trade, no resale. Then that nose is the only of its kind, because anything that too closely resembles it is barred due to it being a copy of an existing item. With things like skirts, hair, animal legs etc. there's a lot more wiggle room, as well as more room for art style to clearly shine through, so this isn't as much of an issue, but I could see it very quickly becoming one with facial features.

Another thing that people were mentioning in the news comments for the Masq CW contest not too long ago was just that the general exclusivity of the CW market would make getting facial features extremely difficult, and that anyone not quick enough or who can't pour money into CSC purchases would likely feel sort of ostracized. With clothes, it's less of a burn because there's such an over saturation of clothes, and everyone has their own styles and preferences, but someone's face is something much more personal. Again, the examples I stated above, and others, I could just see it going sour all too quickly.

Like I said, I know I'm probably the minority vote, but I hope my ramblings kind of help put into perspective why some people are against the rule changing. To each their own, and this isn't meant to be an attack on anyone, so please don't take it as such! Just wanted to give my two cents~

This discussion has kind of drifted off my original topic of "remove the arbitrarily-enforced 'illusion of closed eyes' rule" and into a general "I want facial features as CWs" discussion.

I'm perfectly fine with eyes, noses, mouths not being allowed as CWs. What I'm not fine with is knowing full well that all of the makeup designs I want to make would be denied for "having the illusion of closed eyes" when I'm not even trying to make a CW that looks like closed eyes. If I want to make a makeup CW with only upper lashes, it would get denied for looking like closed eyes. If I want to make a makeup CW with only lower lashes, it would get denied for looking like closed eyes, even if it was intended to be used as makeup to begin with.

I don't want the rule to be scrapped because I want to make closed eyes. I want the rule to be scrapped because it's preventing me from releasing makeup.

If the rule isn't going to be modified for CWs now or allow for others to be grandfathered in now that "mistakes" have been made, it should apply to everything or nothing.

Better get on the other base modifications like earrings, the various lower body modifying CWs and makeup kits.