So I know this is totally early to be thinking about, but I don't see the plans I have for this particular pet changing ever

[link=https://subeta.net/petinfo.php?petid=5858646]This[/link] is Caerbannog, he's mean, fast, and deadly... and quite tiny, I really can't imagine this creature having much defense. My one and only goal with him is to be able to defeat Paramnesia Buttwing Bomber in the distant future.

How little Defense can I get away with having? Is it like Speed where you can have 0 and be fine, or is there some minimum number that I should train to?

wrote a great post over here about final builds.

The main problem you'll see is that their weapons are strong and have a wide icon spread, which means you're likely going to take more damage than you can block, even with a high defense. That's where your health comes in. There's a heal cap of 9,999 HP to keep in mind and your weapons won't heal you more than a percentage of that amount. For example, if your health is 11k, your max heal (at 10%) will still be 999 HP. They also have high speed so you have to watch out for critical hits.

But the easiest way I have dealt with them is by chain freezing to avoid being hit altogether :P

It should also be pointed out that 's pet, Captain Beatd0wn has 19 wins on Paramnesia Buttwing Bomber with ~5k defense.

For buttwing bomber with enough intel and a couple 100% blockers for when the freeze chain breaks you could go 0 defense, 0 speed, and even 1 health

I’d like to see that in action. At 30k strength that’s 41.2 dpi, so 3300 damage per turn with 80 icons, with four six icon mods per weapon that’s another 1977.6 damage per turn (5277) total.

Does the 3% on shriek round to the nearest whole damage though? If it does you might need like 33 hp or something...that would be about 1 damage per turn but mimimizing the damage by percentage you’re taking.

720 int for three shrieks is pretty low and would probably be all sub 300k per book. 61.1% chance of all three freezing in a row isn’t shabby either.

Guess I found my new project to play against no curse, freeze enabled opponents...

30k strength is a lot of stats, you can do it with less. Sadly I don't remember the strength formula (I'm old), but we can play with a few numbers.

Let's take the 9K strength metionned above (dpi 22.6). With two godlies : average iconage - 38 each, and with 4x6 icon mods each, that's 124 icons or ~2800 damage. With the occasional crit and curse active, that's probably 7 turns if we're counting the first one where you freeze using freezer/STS + lucky scroll for some damage. As low as 1680 int.

With each scroll being 240 intel, you can probably trade a few dpi for some intel to get the perfect lowest amount of stats

Doesn't really answer our friend's question here. Defense isn't useless but a lot of high end opponents will cut through it anyway. It's way cheaper than intel though, so having a few thousand doesn't hurt on a regular build

@ Jess I actually couldn't find his stats anywhere, so mega thanks for those!

One thing that I can't find a clear answer on; is the heal cap of 9,999 per weapon or per turn? Like if I had the 10k health and 2 god weapons would I heal 2k or 1k each turn? I also read somewhere that scrolls weren't capped, would that still be right?

Freezing is the best haha, they can't win if they can't move :P

[edit]I should refresh the page before posting xD

That sounds ... haha [sup]I'm sorry I had to :P[/sup] I certainly see him being some sort of glass cannon, though not quite that extreme. High intel I can certainly do so he'll have the freezers for sure.

An interesting project for sure xD

With the way the battle system is set up, 0 of any stat has its disadvantages. That just means you need to use different strategies, weapons and scrolls. The one thing that will always help, regardless of stats, is AP. The more scrolls you equip, the better.

Alex is not completely wrong, although his example was a little extreme. Jovi and I were able to get wins on para butt with T11 pets even though he is classified as T13. As long as the challenger can be frozen, a much lower tier pet can theoretically get wins on the hardest challengers through chain freezing and using 100% blockers.

Healing for weapons is capped at 1k for each weapon so if you had 10k health and two weapons that did 10% heal, you would heal for 2k

basically if your health is over 10K, the healing weapons will cap as if you were at 10K

so like if you have a 13K hp pet, a 10% healing weapon will heal 1000, a 7% will heal 700, so on and so forth. Two 10% weapons, well 999 each.

heal from scrolls isn't capped, so a 10% scroll would heal you 1300

Not only am I not completely, wrong, I'm actually completely right!

I was initially going to say not completely insane but that was too cliché, even for me. The 1 HP comment though, I can’t get behind.

Had a meh two days and forgot to reply, oops xD (also I just noticed I typed 9,999 instead of 999 haha)

Ah cool, so that's 3k healing... ish, if you use a healing scroll, but then you'd be picking a freezing one for a good few turns first

I plugged some random values into a fiddle I made and turned them into stats? Health - 15,778 - (1,420 heal from 9% scroll) Strength - 11,925 - (26dpi) Defense - 400 - (5dpi) Speed - 6,897 Would knock off 500 points of damage for the 100 icon blocks, idk though, maybe it's too low :P Not sure about the Atk vs HP either, might it be better to have more attack rather than HP to kill stuff faster, or to put more damage on plot bosses? I've no idea what I'm doing xD

The 9% healing scrolls are super hard to come by. You will more likely see a 7-8% heal from scrolls unless you use something like TF that has 0 def and poor attack.

Here's an example: let's say you're battling meatslab the furious. Meatslab has many different weapons, one type is the mighty flex. He has two of these and he will use at least one of them a majority of the time. Each mighty flex has the potential to deal 35-100 physical icons so if he uses two, then the max damage is 200 physical icons. Let's say your pet is using the ether to block 100 physical icons. That still leaves you open to attack.

Base stat damage done by 200 icons of physical from meatslab is 3368+. These weapons will also boost his strength with each use so he will at least be at 7000 strength during the first battle.

You use the ether to block 100 physical icons. At 500 defense, your defended stats are 559 icons, so you will take 2,809. If you had 5,000 defense, your defended becomes 1,767 so you only take 1,601 damage without healing. I don't know if scrolls have a cap like weapons though so there may be a hard cap on how much to heal per turn. You could dump a lot into health, but you gain more from investing in both health and some defense instead of only investing in health.

Scrolls don’t cap at 999. (Pet @ 13k hp)

Besides healing, more health means you can tank more damage. Defense dpi doesn’t give that much an advantage after a while

and iirc, the MW bypasses the 1k cap rule for healing.

You're right! That is awesome, but I wonder why MW isn't capped?

yep some weapons aren't heal capped, MW is one of them:

When the system was implemented, some weapons were given a free pass as an added perk basically. In the past there was no heal cap. To give MW (and others) an extra feature, they let it heal like it used to. It's not healing 10% (which was the standard for weapons of its caliber) but it isn't stopped by the so called heal cap

That makes sense. Thanks :)

Oh wow I didn't know that about MW, that's so cool! [sup]others?[/sup]

Yea, I keep an eye out for anyone selling but nothing yet, my best infinite scroll is Aftershocks at the mo I'm not sure about what you say about investing more in Def though, since the higher your Def gets the worse the diminishing returns, while 1 more HP remains at 1 more HP Though I see where you're coming from; Caerbannog will be taking more damage than Tarrant and Vryce for sure (Tarrant is getting trained fairly evenly, while Vryce will be a slow tanky build)

Yes defense does diminish, but not right away. My example was just showing that you’re still better off having more than 500 def. You can still have a build like that, it just means having to wait until you have more stats until you can beat some challengers.

The best scrolls out there are mana surge, maelstrom and TA. They all have 9% heal. Mana surge and maelstrom are both old achievement prizes for beating impossible challengers during the omen island rs war event. I don’t think there are very many copies of those floating around so they’re probably going for 1 bil+. TA was an old achievement prize for beating lady of the waters. There are more copies of those floating around but the last one I saw years ago sold for 450 mil. Usually the only people looking to get rid of them are retired battlers.

Yikes that's high, guess I'll be making do with AS for a good while, unless some new thing gets made

Hmm, 500... Health - 14,612 - (1,315 heal from 9%) Strength - 12,860 - (27dpi) Defense - 576 - (6dpi) Speed - 6,952

That does seem better actually now that I look, I'll have to keep fiddling with it :) Gotta say that I love the way the cap and mechanics are set up; so much room for creativity, while still being viable

So if you were to go for something like:

20K HP 5999 STR 0 DEF 9001 Speed

You would have 4600 mitigation using MW a capped 1000 HP and a 9% scroll with 15 dpi with only needing to fear the roague 10% crit hit chance, and a massive health pool

Vs a more traditional build like: 12K HP 7.5K STR 7.5K DEF 9K SPD

which would have a maximum possible mitigation of about 7300 against an opponent that always maxes out the icons on your god weapons, but a smaller overall health pool.

I think the traditional build would do better against probably 90% of opponents, but I think the 20K HP pet would crush the mage, and probably a few other of the wide icon challengers. But a traditional pet would crush anything that uses a couple icon types very consistently.