Introducing Project Kumos!

November 21, 2023 1:34 pm

Hello everyone! January 2024 is coming up, another year for the world and Subeta. From those of you who have been here from the beginning to those who joined further along our evolution, you've seen a lot of change and progress. So the announcement of a new site framework may bring up a lot of conflicting emotions, and it's important we break what and why Project Kumos is going to be starting December 1st 2023.

WHAT IS PROJECT KUMOS?

Keith did not build Subeta as a seasoned programmer. The earliest parts of the site were written when he was 14. As he built new features, things he thought would be really fun and that others would enjoy, he wasn't always looking at how things would look four years down the line or more. Nor was or this always easy to plan, since software versions also change. As he programmed Subeta using the tools he knew and had at the time, Subeta took on technical debt; the same way you need to get something now and plan to pay it off later, this meant coding a feature to work now and planning to retrofit or accommodate other code around it. The new auth system is a good example; the way it handled cookies was outdated and unable to handle new security protocols. So Keith put together something new to solve the problem, using the tools and approach that had worked before and started applying that to some other ideas on the horizon...and had an epiphany.

He details it more here https://kumos.subeta.net/forums/thread/8-%F0%9F%8E%89-Project-Kumos-%F0%9F%8E%89], including the cost of looking at outside options But the shorter version is that he realized his previous approach to coding Subeta one feature at a time, especially as the lone programmer, was going to run into the same problems we Subetans have unfortunately seen before; individual projects with a lot of steam that peter out as that technical debt of an older feature comes due and stalls integration with the amount of work having to be paid back. The future of Subeta can't look like that, for anyone's sake, and he knows it.

WHAT THIS MEANS TO SITE USERS

New features will be built and tested on kumos.subeta.net and then, when they're ready, will have redirects on from the subeta.net URL to kumos.subeta.net EDIT will be integrated onto and accessible on main subeta.net. This does mean you'll only be able to access those new features through the Kumos Project until they're completed. But all of current subeta.net will still be available with the legacy features we have currently in place! Meanwhile on kumos.subeta.net there will be games and prizes, and lots of chances for feedback as Keith uses it as a test environment for new ideas and revisions of existing content. It also has a changelog! https://kumos.subeta.net/forums/4-Changelog

We WILL all need to update our passwords again if you haven't done so already on/for kumos.subeta.net; On the new kumos page you've got to click the "forgot password" thing under where you would put your credentials to get an email to reset/establish a PW for the new log-in You will then get a reset link in your email. IT will then update your password for everything. You will need to check your email on file at https://subeta.net/preferences.php?act=profile and be able to receive new emails at that address! If you need to change it but don't have access to that account anymore to do so, you can file a ticket and staff can reset it. OR, if you know a friend that wants to return but lost access to their email, they can email [email protected] to get that changed.

TLDR; the Kumos Project is a test environment to build new stuff and THEN add it to subeta.net. Subeta.net features are not being taken away and will continue working! The Kumos Project is a way for you to see and interact with new stuff before it's implemented, as well as give feedback.

We look forward to seeing you on kumos.subeta.net for the Kumos Project, and having more fun together on Subeta!

November 21, 2023, 3:41 pm by

As one of those old users (on the site and irl), I don't think I understand entirely what this is, even after the extra explanation in these comments. Will Kumos eventually take over entirely?

I will say I am not currently a fan of how Kumos looks/feels overall on PC, but, I'm sure lots of changes will come. I'll try my very best to keep an open mind. However, I'm firmly in camp Legacy Subeta. D:

November 21, 2023, 3:40 pm by

i'm confused. i changed my pw on kumos and it's supposed to change for everything, but it still needs my old pw here....

November 21, 2023, 3:29 pm by

If this Subeta stays, please please keep posts/news here and don’t move them to Kumos! I don’t want to check three separate pages (new Subeta? Legacy Subeta? Kumos??). Kumos sounds nice as a beta project thing, so yes, do it! But please keep everyone informed.

November 21, 2023, 3:25 pm by

Echoing on the layout aspect! I am not a mobile user, and the times I do visit the legacy site on mobile, it works fine enough for me. I hate websites turning their layouts to be more mobile-friendly at the cost of becoming less desktop-friendly!

November 21, 2023, 3:21 pm by

It sounds like you both kind of have the same question or concern, so I am going to try and answer you both?

Think of it as...hmm. Let's say you're making jewelry. You have ideas for all sorts of nifty little projects and pendants and styles, and you make individual pieces that look great, but when you try to connect them together the connectors don't fit or the pieces snare or the metals clash. On their own they look great, but you can't turn the smaller pieces into a nice cohesive whole. Or if you're knitting and you use different weights of yarn or different kinds, trying to put the sleeves on a shirt body doesn't make a good garment overall.

That is what Keith was doing before, and it wasn't working. A new project would be difficult or impossible to integrate with Subeta's older code. So this is the opposite approach; an updated framework, and projects built OUT from that standard. It's going to be easier and should not lead to individual pieces that get left behind. Plus, being a test environment rather than main production, shouldn't break main functionality of the site or disrupt your experience.

November 21, 2023, 3:16 pm by

lol remember cults

November 21, 2023, 3:12 pm by

So I had changed my password for the Kumos site, but I still need my old password for the current site. I thought it was supposed to update for both?

November 21, 2023, 3:12 pm by

...we're missing CSC?

@;;;;

November 21, 2023, 3:08 pm by

Again, I'm not wanting to sound ungrateful for the work Keith is putting in. But without an explanation it feels like... why are you (staff, not you-you) doubling your workload unnecessarily? Is this what the crafting thread in the forums was alluding to even though most of the responses were "crafting is boring, I never use it anymore"? Is it just a proof-of-concept or is this going to be The Thing(TM) that's gonna be basically the only thing worked on for the next year+?

Obviously neither of us have the answers, and again, I'm happy there's a future for subeta that isn't like, dwindling into nothingness. Just that from an outside perspective it looks like an unnecessary burden Keith is taking on in addition to trying to rewrite the entire website's code.

November 21, 2023, 3:05 pm by

Just kidding, it's me, I'm just dumb. Logged in fine lol

November 21, 2023, 2:57 pm by

I try to log in and it says my info isn't in the system :| I'll have to file a ticket but I'm still looking forward to new stuff

November 21, 2023, 2:57 pm by

no problem! It wasn't really explained clearly. Happy to help c:

November 21, 2023, 2:55 pm by

Can someone explain a bit simpler/shorter? Explanatory walls text are nice (not irony lol, I read all that, I'm in process to read the Keith post also) but, just for a quick look because this are new-news for me. I get the site code is oldie and the new things are newer are may not be retrocompatible? Like, triyng to use a Gameboy Advance cartdrige on a Swicht? It's the site getting mirrored on another URL? What's the difference between kumos an new.subeta? If you don't get a kumos password you will... locked out from subeta or something? There is a countdown to get the password?

PS: I hope the new layout will not be much different... I aprecciatte A LOT this site being for PC/computer... I'm... tired of... big letters in enourmous colored buttons... taking half of my screen for two sentences, maybe three, but only in the middle leaving empty both sides....

November 21, 2023, 2:50 pm by

welp, lets see how this goes.

November 21, 2023, 2:49 pm by

That was part of Keith's epiphany! He'd been treating new.subeta.net as separate projects, one at a time things to add to it, but as he looked at adding new things to, well, new.subeta.net he realized it would just run into the same problem. kumos.subeta.net is a more unified approach that can use new versions (great catch, ) of some old programming tools to move things back onto subeta.net once they're ready, rather than having to do a whole new site.

November 21, 2023, 2:48 pm by

Quote by Aurora

I&;ve been here nearly twenty years, practically two thirds of my life. I remember when every click said we were using 2400% of the bandwidth!

Hahaha... it's funny to think Subeta has been a part of our lives for more than half of it. That does make me a little more excited for whatever is around the corner.

November 21, 2023, 2:46 pm by

I think Keith has a bit more to it, he's been working on it for a bit so he knows WHAT is going on. The why and how are just the parts where if he pulls too hard on one bit of code something else breaks. At one point for battle he deleted a years-old table that looked like it didn't do anything and it ended up resetting some pretty important battle stats; he does NOT want anything similar like losing information happening to the CW system for y'all's sake as well as the users just buying. Artists and releasers do amazing things and the wardrobe system is so vital and fun because it is this intertwined labor of love throughout the years from so many people, with so many items being everything from fun fashion to deep tributes to loved ones, but it means there's a lot to lose as well if he pulls the wrong domino.

November 21, 2023, 2:45 pm by

Mixed feelings! On one hand seeing this is a relief. I logged in again after more than a year away (and on other pet sites) and coming back to Subeta can be a bit jarring. It's definitely lagging in several areas, and you can feel just how small the team is. I'm really glad Subeta is still being worked on and I'm on board, even though I don't totally get what the plan is.

I am nervous at the start date and... I really have no idea what to expect. But I guess that's par for the course on Subeta. It sounds like you're rebuilding the site from the ground up so all features are on the same code at last? I sense the imminent growing pains but I'd love to see the finished project. Idk I guess let's do this!

Now to figure out this password reset. puts on elderly lady reading specs

November 21, 2023, 2:42 pm by

Been here since before to global reset of 2004, i.e., my real join date is June 23rd, 2004 prior to the user tables being deleted and everyone needing to rejoin. I've been here nearly twenty years, practically two thirds of my life. I remember when every click said we were using 2400% of the bandwidth!

This is nothing. Aside a small concern regarding pet stats, I'm not worried at all. We've been through worse. We'll get through it again. And largely, this should help fix other problems the site has been having. We can only go up from here.

I hear a lot of oh. Why were you working on homestead... but that was much needed new content for Subeta. I'm not sure how many folks have noticed, but the site isn't as active as it used to be,this is deeply saddening. New features, more activity. But. The old framework was a roadblock, according to the forum post. That helped lead to this whole new framework idea. I'm thankful to Homestead and I think it'll be good for the site and even fun. Obviously the new structure is now the priority,

Also, fun thing I noticed... you can react to forum posts on the new framework with stickers in your inventory. I started laughing since the only once in my inventory were not appropriate for the project announcement.

November 21, 2023, 2:42 pm by

I thought new.subeta.net was supposed to be the updated project? Was that abandoned?

November 21, 2023, 2:40 pm by

Fireside and other events will happen! This is extra stuff, not in place of.

November 21, 2023, 2:38 pm by

the timer is a good idea but if Disasters and I buy the same exact cw at the same time it’ll just happen again. I hope this will be addressed with the new site! And if money is an issue, why not start a GoFundMe or a Patreon?

November 21, 2023, 2:37 pm by

You don't have to change your password. You can input your current password and use it. That's what I did. :)

November 21, 2023, 2:34 pm by

I got seeing excited the new post thinking fireside was starting and now…my head hurts 🤦‍♀️🤣 I will re read later and hopefully it will make sense then 🤞

November 21, 2023, 2:32 pm by

This has not been ignored and there have been staff posts on it. But it is a situation of timing with the current code that is tricky to address without overhauling the entire system. Keith and even bug are/were digging deep into how or why it is happening, but it's an example of that technical debt; the older system was coded to work but Keith didn't realize at the time the volume it would need to handle. His plan right now is to add a simple timer to the purchasing process (1 CW per minute) as a solution until a new and FULLY TESTED, SCALABLE version of the CSC system can be ported.

Once you reset your password it will reset it across all sites but yes, it does have to be changed for the new site.

Credit card is going to be the best option, PayPal is a logistical issue in its own right including being expensive and having customer service issues. Keith is putting together a post on what's been going on with some of that and other financial matters on Subeta and will be putting it up on kumos.net soon.

November 21, 2023, 2:31 pm by

Hmm I really hope this breathes new life into Subeta. That would be wonderful!

November 21, 2023, 2:31 pm by

Managed to log in successfully and have a look.

November 21, 2023, 2:26 pm by

I'm not quite sure about all this, but I logged onto the new site with no issue. Thanks for all the hard work that's being done, and fingers crossed that everything turns out great!

November 21, 2023, 2:26 pm by

So I have to change my password? 🤬

November 21, 2023, 2:26 pm by

So I have to change my password? 🤬

November 21, 2023, 2:25 pm by

As English is not my main I had to read it a few times but still don’t understand it all. Can someone explain it simple for me

November 21, 2023, 2:25 pm by

So...is it basically that we all play on this Subeta website per usual, but the dot kumos is like a testing field people can log on and play with if they want to? And once something passes beta it comes onto this subeta website for everyone to use?

November 21, 2023, 2:22 pm by

I think we should probably all remember that at the end of the day, Subeta is a passion project. The crafting portion is something Keith has wanted to bring to the site for a long time and it seems like he's really excited to be working on Subeta again. Which really makes me happy for the site's future!

So yes, there are still other things to be doing/fixed around the site but I think letting Keith/Staff have fun with Subeta as well is also very important.

November 21, 2023, 2:22 pm by

Looks pretty ugly, ngl

November 21, 2023, 2:22 pm by

i just hope the -new- site will be optimized and the pages properly scale i got small laptop and wardrobe literally goes offscreen for me. and with shit sight i cant play this game zoomed the hell out. i just don't care enough for avatar making anymore to complain about much just yet lol

November 21, 2023, 2:17 pm by

“One more thing: what happens to CW, CSC and cash purchasing for NON USA users? It was finally working..”

Nothing in regards to csc works. Releasers are losing csc daily pretty much and no one on staff (save Jessi) gives a crap about fixing it.

November 21, 2023, 2:14 pm by

Considering they made the minion zoo for this reason like, what, 8 years ago? And it's still useless lol

November 21, 2023, 2:10 pm by

does this mean that issues like the missing CSC from CW purchases are going to be ignored until this project is done? I mean that's a serious 2 YEAR old issue and staff is still ignoring the post.

November 21, 2023, 2:10 pm by

Like it reads like you're going to be basically rewriting the site piece by piece.... whyyyyyyy would you add the work of creating an entire new crafting/questing/house(???????) system on top of all that? It sounds like you're wanting to build a completely new petsite instead?

I'm not wanting to sound ungrateful for the work Keith is putting in to this project but I just want to understand.

November 21, 2023, 2:09 pm by

what I understand is that homesteading feature is to give your pets more things to do while on site, rather than just sitting there. So you will have small and large tasks to do, and I believe it was mentioned that at some point creating items or completing tasks would give items. (Which, isn't a sure thing yet)

(Since the site runs on clicks as well, then it would give the site more clicks and basically keep it alive in a way.)

November 21, 2023, 2:06 pm by

Ohh so that's where notifs for purchasing csc on the ~~new~~ page have been going (as I was greeted by 2 events for Oct purchases haha)...

November 21, 2023, 2:02 pm by

Ah. Confused why y'all have made an entire new crafting system/pet quests? Is that gonna be a major thing being worked on in addition to all the other stuff?

Might also want to explain at all what migrating your pets over actually does, I chose my least favorite pet because I had no idea what that entailed for it. :I

November 21, 2023, 2:02 pm by

I'd like to formally apologize to my chibi neela for immediately sending the tiny man to build a shack in the woods.

November 21, 2023, 2:00 pm by

As usual, at a total loss of what's going on. Still don't understand this "Kumos Project", is it now going to be the "New Subeta"? I've never changed my password on kumos dot subeta dot net, I've never been on kumos dot subeta dot net. And why, oh why, are you doing this at the same time as Lumiaire? A time that just about everyone looks forward to???

November 21, 2023, 1:58 pm by

Ok, logged in - it also said that I received 500 CSC in an event, might not want to have that up there.

November 21, 2023, 1:58 pm by

Thank you, that worked! I re-read the news post several times, but I didn't quite get what we were actually supposed to do.

November 21, 2023, 1:58 pm by

I hope all these future plans don't involve more item limits like they did to the shops/galleries (still not over it lol)

November 21, 2023, 1:57 pm by

One more thing: what happens to CW, CSC and cash purchasing for NON USA users? It was finally working...

November 21, 2023, 1:56 pm by

answered. headdesk - always remember to refresh before posting -sigh

November 21, 2023, 1:55 pm by

Ok then. All I have to say is that this kind of thing always confuses me no matter how you all try to explain it. I shall just keep on playing as I am, and when things change, they change, and I'll adapt :) Good luck all!

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Introducing Project Kumos!

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