Was really hoping they'd make an effort at reducing prices across the board, ngl.

Side note, I am so frustrated that we have to go poking around to see this information, instead of discussion being open to everyone. :( Thanks for the head's up.

Yeah - I'm not surprised because I definitely expected it, just based on how they did it the first time around - but it is disappointing.

Also agreed - I wish this wasn't a closed session deal (and soon we won't have any info because it appears they're shifting to discord). I get why they wanted a smaller group to help refine things but...there were so many concise suggestion boards to begin with that could've just been used for the base. Hell, they could've done quick polls with clear deadlines on changes and gotten feedback that way.

I'm just hoping that since discussions are actually moving forward now more rapidly that we'll see some announcements sooner rather than later.

Yeah! I'm stoked that things are picking up steam again!

Me too - I'm trying to temper that with the knowledge that it's already taken too long, but I'm hopeful that we won't be languishing indefinitely anymore at least.

I didn't say you did say those things, and I'm really not trying to imply that you personally said anything specific...okay?

But people keep talking about price changes like they actually expect them to happen in the very near future.

Meanwhile, the CW feed has fewer and fewer releaser names on it with almost every iteration.

I'm concerned/curious about what will happen if a lot of people do stop releasing until this thing that we have been promised sorta kinda actually happens.

If it acted as a kick in the pants to the staff I'd probably be all for it.

But I'm not sure that it will.

A lot of people have, within the last month or so, stopped releasing and slotting on things. And, within the last month or so, since a larger portion of users pulled back, we've gotten more information from staff and more movement within the Council. Staff has repeatedly expressed how vital that part of the site is for funding it, and as has been shown in the past when we were awaiting answers/changes - when the staff treats it like it's unimportant and as a result people pull back, they suddenly remember that they should focus on sorting those issues out (as funds for the site drop).

I'm not advocating for anyone to change their behavior unless they already feel compelled to. I can't, in good conscience, keep submitting things at a high cost to me and my slotters when we've been promised that changes are coming soon (despite knowing that 'soon' really has no concrete time frame). That's a me decision. I'm not alone in feeling that way. You can only string people along for so long before they make their own decisions about how they're going to handle going forward. I'm watching releasers and artists leave the market because things aren't happening and they're tired of waiting for change. I've also seen some people step up their releases to try to fill the void with varying success.

I'm not telling anyone else how to do their business or spend their money, all I was doing was letting Tartelette know that we had kind of a pseudo answer on the whole price adjustment for already approved CWs (and letting others who were in doubt know that past experience is usually a pretty good indicator of future behavior - since several of us had warned this was the likely outcome) and letting Ambition know that someone had taken her idea to the council board and mentioned it to staff so she knew that folks heard her and also agreed that staff needed to do something so that people at least know whether or not an item is locked into an older price model.

I'm also quite aware on the numbers of submissions and submitters lately as I'm the one who has to hunt through the directory to find all of the newly released CWs and add them to SL (since Subeta's wardrobe filters and cache have both been dysfunctional for quite awhile now, which means I had to resort to other ways to find what's been released and get it added).

I don't assume you're not aware, but there's lots of non-you and non-me people reading this thread :)

I didn't however know that was you on SL. What a crazy job that must be lately!

Thank you so much for doing that!

It's both easier and harder than it used to be. Our programmer has made it so as long as certain things are done, we don't have to manually add each item anymore (like, we used to have to go in and add the URLs for the CI and also the overlays and make sure we had the right layer and whether it was unisex or not - now it's all automated provided we have the range of IDs right and we do the other steps). But since the caching issues started (and even moreso since the filters stopped working) it's a lot more of a trial to grab all of the items. I added this round just now but I have to check in a few hours and make sure there weren't a stray one or two that came in later than the rest.

Good luck!

If everyone in the community continues to act like this isn't a pressing matter, then staff will not see it as one.

I have been asking every single week for an update from staff. I've been posting and pinging / etc, trying to get us some answers. This is stressful. I've got RL shit that has been destroying me, but I have made it a priority to push for this and I'm going to keep going.

The update posted is harrowing. I'd been very hopeful that I was wrong, and whether or not we were price locked is something I've been asking for over a month now, every single Wednesday. What she found, in addition to the lack of any staff member confirming or denying tells me that there is a good chance staff doesn't want to discourage us from submitting items while they take their time on this. Whether that means they don't have a decision, or the decision is not in our favor, I don't know. I can only speculate, like everyone else.

I'd really like to come back to this community and work. I have basically lost a job by not being able to do commissions. Maybe that's why this seems to be more pressing to people like me, than people like you. I'm effectively out of any income from this unless I want to yeet my morals into the trash can.

(And before someone accuses me of thinking other artists are greedy-- I do not. Everyone's circumstances are different than mine. I can afford to stand back in protest for the lack of updates here, but I hold no ill will on those who can not. Hopefully at the very least they appreciate that I'm fighting-- although seeing all the lovely 'words' people have been giving me for the last month in regards to being vocal, I'm pretty sure some of ya'll wish I was one of the people quitting rn.)

It definitely was a bummer of a thing to realize based on the way the responses seem to be going. I wasn't sure how they'd manage to do adjustments to begin with and that pretty much confirmed for me the suspicion that they would keep it the same as they did last time they did a price change, with older items remaining locked in.

Also I wish we had better answers not just for the releasers but all of you artists as well - I know that it's harder on you guys even for those who haven't stepped back because I know there are less designs being bought and recolors and commissions being made. I think a lot of folks forget that this isn't just a fun hobby for a lot of people, but that it directly impacts their financial situation. I hope we get some better developed responses from staff soon, and know that I appreciate your weekly request for information as I've noticed when and how that's made an impact ❤️

I think the whole "voucher" system may help with the reprice. A voucher comes at a fixed cost and buys one item which might be any price up to 700. So if items tend to vary, and some wigs cost 400 while others cost 700, you'll still get sales of the 700 ones with vouchers.

, thanks for sharing what your father told you about economics, it seems very accurate to me (and I only took one semester of economics, but still, it fits). Especially the quote above and also the bit about sunk cost vs. value. (And also your theory as to why new players feel like resellers are greedy when in fact resales are most often at purchase price or less!)

The economy of Subeta is pretty big and complicated for the type of game that it is, and I think Keith and other staff are very aware of what shifts that economy. So I am not too worried.

this is a very interesting thread and I appreciate your sharing the statistics and information about the rates of submissions and so on. I'm not too surprised that fewer items are being submitted right now, with the uncertainty and also the wardrobe inability to filter CWs. That combination does seem like it'd result in that lessening you have seen.

I'm in agreement as far as vouchers are concerned. I've already been using mine monthly to grab things at the higher cost end that I may have otherwise not picked up.

And yeah - I saw probably at least a month long where the amount of CWs being approved during the approval rounds were like...maybe 15. We don't usually have such small groups. Now, with about a week between approvals, I've seen it vary from 15-ish to 52 (today - the highest I've seen, though a lot are CWs that were older and waiting on slotters for months based on when I have seen pings trying to recruit folks in). It's definitely not like it was where we'd see 50-60 approvals every few days.

I think it's a combo of the uncertainty for CWs + the wardrobe acting up + the current financial situation outside of subeta where a lot of people are without jobs or on much reduced earnings. It's definitely a bad combo of it all converging at once.

Hey Tart! People like you make CWs worth it, you fight for cws and encourage the community so much. I look up to you! Im working on releasing more things, i find the happiness it brings me and the people who purchase from me are worth it. I think we just need to step aside and wait for subeta to do its thing, and keep on keeping on. Act like nothing is falling apart. Its what weve done for years..

What I'd like to see, I think, is that they do keep price fixed (for various reasons including not keeping people from buying now and waiting for prices to go down) but make a certain number of vouchers purchaseable per month at the lower typical price.

So older CWs would still cost say 700 for ears, and newer ears might only be 300, but everyone can buy vouchers each month at slowly rising prices: 1 voucher for 300, a second for 400, a third for 500, each month (maybe a fourth for 600?) and that way the older ears would still be reasonable to buy at a comparable price point for some people some of the time.

Whatever the lowest new base price for CWs comes out to, that's where they need to start the voucher sale. That way all CWs are fungible in some sense and price matters much less (while still mattering some, especially in quantity).

Do you think something like that would make you feel better about doing commissions again?

One thing I'd like to point out - nothing on this site is ever set in stone. Just because they won't alter the prices of all old CWs now doesn't mean they won't do it in the future. Look at the facial items - how many years were we told those wouldn't be allowed and now apparently they're planning to allow us to submit them.

I think at this point we're borrowing trouble by worrying over what old CWs will cost. The people who want to submit CWs prior to the price reduction will and the people who don't want to won't. Personally, I'd prefer to wait and see what they give us before getting upset then we can make requests/demands/alterations after the updates are done. Because at this point any further requests/suggestions/demands will only slow the process down - and this shit needs to be finished like yesterday.

No.

The price adjustments need to come out for me to feel comfortable to return. It's not about the profit, or people purchasing my items. It's about the principle of staff claiming that they're going to make a change, and then delaying that change for 7 months and expecting people to just continue to pay prices we know are going to lower, when this change could happen any day.

It's about not knowing if previous items will be price locked or not, and feeling like it's unfair to ask people to pay me money, possibly struggle to get slotters, and then potentially lose money when the price change happens because people are spending all their money on new items with cheaper prices.

Vouchers are nice, don't get me wrong, but they're a gateway into the community, and people who I see super active in this community aren't making all their purchases with these vouchers (maybe a few, but definitely not all). My customers as a commissioner aren't doing all their business with vouchers, so it's not a factor in how I feel towards 'fairness' towards them.

The fact is, the current state of the community has been struggling for releasers for a long time. It's a difficult balance between feeling like I'm asking too much of them, but feeling too unfairly compensated for my time. Until this change happens, I feel like this balance isn't there for me like it used to be when the community was doing much better. (I cannot ask someone to pay $30+ on a design, and then see them not even be able to fill a single batch because the community is in shambles.)

I get that this is part of your income and it's definitely not part of mine. For one thing, I'm not an artist, so it can't be part of my income.

I don't consider any artist I work with to be in any way responsible for whether or not the items sell well. I paid for their time and their work, but since I decide to release stuff based on my own personal tastes, it is nobody's fault but my own if my stuff doesn't sell.

I am absolutely opposed to them leaving the older items at the old prices. So is 90% of the CW community. It might be one of the rare moments in time when I'm actually part of the majority :) I agree with feral that the update is harrowing and deeply disappointing.

If someone prefers to wait to buy until prices drop, good on them. I'd rather sell fewer items now than not be able to sell my really nice stuff later on down the road.

I have been selling more older items since they actually made it user-friendly to search and browse older CWs, and I'd like that to continue.

Was just reading through this thread and you're absolutely right about this point:

Anyway, lol. A while back I was lurking on the CW sales threads. A user had some CWs in their shop all priced at like 10k or something. Another user asked them about it, and they said it was just so the items would show up in the shop search! If I hadn't seen that conversation I might've thought they were actually selling all of them for 10k CSC.

And that's totally fine, but that doesn't change how I feel when those people pay me and then also have to pay subeta for their items. My stepping back is not because of peer pressure it's because I, myself am uncomfortable.