I also find it unlikely that submission prices would ever lower because they have the mindset that people are already willing to pay the current price (and we are indeed), but there also comes a time when even the people paying those prices start to cut back on things they spend too much on.

I have also seen some people doing the +250 profit etc and well, I pay it if it's something I'm sure I'd use and there aren't 2+ other variances available. More often then not I don't slot on those even, however.

I still think Subeta could encourage more CSC sales and make custom wearables more approachable by lowering the submission prices (even a little bit)!

There is a persuasion/negotian technique where you initially ask someone for a large amount of money and upon refusal, then request a smaller amount to complete a sale (referred to as "Door in the Face" I think?) It's been shown to be truly effective n_n So people who look at cws and then think 700 csc for something is too expensive would be tempted by something 500 or 600 even.

Of course this is all theory anyway, because I don't have any hope of them actually adjusting cw prices but I honestly don't think it would hurt at this point.

I always buy the same amount of csc when I do purchase regardless of what types of sales are going on, so I wouldn't really buy any less if prices for cws were cheaper.

I haven't been releasing things for super long. But I'd like to give me input n-n

One thing from the outside looking in once upon a time for me. Looking at the cw boards was VERY overwhelming and looked super difficult. I was very nervous about how to even slot for something. Luckily I had and to help me out with everything from slotting to creating my own shop ! I wish there like maybe a introduction to cws page for new beginners? Like km sure tons of people would like to come aboard!! But too nervous about trying! Dude I have had two users message me saying stuff like "hey I'm sorry this is so silly ;; but could you please explain how CWS and getting the work ? " Like first off I'm honored you think I'm a pro with them xD (im so not tho)nd don't feel silly about asking! I feel like if more people new. They'd get into it. But not everyone will ask. If it wasn't for my friends helping me I wouldn't have either.

Also although I LOVE the artist I work with son and YJ ARE QUEENZ!!! I find it SO frustrating to see like one or two artist avail full time and then maybe 3 others pop up with things now and again? Its so limited and it feels like I drive the same users crazy with my request ;;

Filling batches is a pain in so many peoples asses! Its sad. Now I always usually do one batch unless I feel SO confident I need another. But so many peoples items can't reach 2! Including mine from time to time. I don't think it's the art. I just think we don't have a wide ebought variety of users on the cw boards buying And I have seen SO many releases stop and being generally down thinking their items were crap when reality they are lovely. That breaks my heart man.

As far as drama? I try and not get wrapped in any. Luckily I have only seen one dramatic thing and just keep walking past it. People on the cw boards are SO sweet. Some people that seem really imidating with their beautiful releases/art are the biggest sweet hearts ever. So thankfully that isn't a problem for me. X.x

BUT ONE ISSUE CAN I SAY is the r200 board !!!! Maybe some people are imidiated by the jerks who are ripping people OFF!!! Like making them spend 2-3 times what the spent on an item (all the time. Like only slotting for an item to resell after bc they know its popular.) I totally understand the already rare items and so forth. Its the constant ripoff that's frustrating and heart breaking!. That's freaking enough to scare someone away from ever freaking reaching custom clothing!!

And I agree with sage on the pawn shop issue. We totally need to do something about that. Its so odd for me to see a NEW release of anyone's just chilling in their. I'm sure it hurts their feeling of they nonstop see their stuff in there ;0; !

I must come back later to try and read more n-n I am almost to Disney thank goodness xD

Also I am so happy to see you and others so concerned for the cw market!!! We would love to help make it popping again! <3

I knowww you used to buy my cws! LMAO, but yes I definitely see why you as a buyer would be less motivated!

Yes the pricing in csc has never really recovered. I remember last year during lumi, people were like yup its going to go down after the holidays. Didn't exactly happen this time. ;-; The proportion of cw artists to commissioners is clearly disturbing because we have maybe 10 commissioners to 2-4 active artists. And a lot of commissioners struggle to fill batches. This struggle does not motivate commissioners to want to commission items in the future.

I was thinking about tutorials and yes its very hard to describe in depth how to create cws, but maybe interactive sessions can be held by experienced veteran cw artists such as and where they are paid a fee by those interested to do a step by step livestream sort of class where they create a cw and answer questions. I think it is only fair that they are paid for their time since they are teaching their money making methods to others.

LOLOLOL TRUE THAT!!

And yes, that's why I asked for commissioner's opinions because I 100% agree with you. It's really freaking expensive to pay for commission and then release. And if the CW doesn't fill a batch, well. You lost money. So not cool.

I think that by doing 1 batch people don't profit much because they also have to cover the artist's copy most of the time :( and if they do 2+, bam, goes to pawn shop. It's really hard to fix the whole situation.

- You also gave some good inputs which I agree with. I was just a bit confused by the "sell back" idea? Like, I bought a copy and don't want it anymore. The releaser has to buy it back and then wait? And when you say like, keep it there for X csc, they have to pay to keep the copy there? Sorry, English isn't my first language so I probably misunderstood XD cuz through this method, I only see releasers losing money since they have to keep buying copies back whenever someone doesn't want it...

I guess the option to "delete" for CSC mentioned by is more interesting? If the user who bought a CW doesn't want it anymore, they could "delete" the CW getting the CSC back (of course for a lower price than what they paid for, pretty much like pawn shop)

- THANKS FOR THE RESPONSE!!! You got great points. I guess indeed one of the biggest issues is the whole economy and how expensive CSC is and how expensive the whole process is. And tbh, isn't the CW market responsible for a big part of the $$$ website's income??? It shouldn't be neglected :I I also partially agree with the denial thing. It'd be great if staff could help through tickets as well, but seeing there's probably only taking care of this, it'd be just too much for one person to handle. Not to mention that it'd take quite a lot of time; imagine how many people would resort to sending tickets regarding denials? Subeta would probably have to hire more people to be in charge of these things, which I don't really see it happening :(

I've been invited to this thread by on skype, and said the same thing I was thinking of: the Pawn Shop. I started playing for real on March 2015, so this shop was already existing; and while I liked the idea of making deals buying the items for less than the CW shops, I also thought that it would make the market die eventually.

I also agree with about the possibility of having a CSC shop where people can buy items without scrolling wishlists. This would help a lot! I'd probably buy way more than I do because I'm a lazy butt and I also don't have much time to go throughall the pings (in fact, I don't ping my buy/sell thread frequently xD)

I've never seen a CW contest, but I believe it's something that could help as well.

I'm sorry that I don't have any great ideas, but I can support the ones you wrote, guys. ^_^

I mean yes they do have sizing as a factor in terms of categories, however I am confused why shoes/makeup are in a 4k category along with larger sized items such as skirts/bottoms/tops. Some item pricings in my opinion are completely off in terms of size. In addition, there are certain items such as jackets or shorts that are literally 3 shreds of lineart and should be priced cheaper than the 4k category.

thanks for posting! The SP to CSC option is definitely glared at by everyone. I don't know if staff ever has the intention of regulating this though :/ So far, they've always said 'that's how we make our money' to justify not dabbing into the prices. Except it's getting pretty ridiculous how expensive it is to get csc aside from USD nowadays.

The pawn shop is also another factor but I dont see them changing much about that. I liked the idea of a csc-priced regular shop that could give people an easy way of atleast attempting to sell their items without thinking 'PAWN SHOP HERE I COME' 4 hours after they ping buysellcw.

As for cws you already know my answer: I'll gladly help you should you dive into them! ❤️

blogs are definitely harmful but I dont see them leaving anytime soon. I think people like drama at that point : x I dont understand the fun in anonymously bashing other users but what can I say. We'll always have some of those.

I don't know if cws are on the priority list or not, you know! We hear people saying cws are a good chunk of the revenues, others saying it isnt. I'd be curious to know where cws actually are on the list of 'we are listening - we dont give two fucks'!

I think cws could benefit from a bit of a marketing strategy (at the moment, looks more like a 'do whatever you want, users are running this place lol' attitude) I still dont see staff adjusting the prices because as you said, we are already willing to pay the current price, but the +250 profit is starting to hurt more. I too don't slot on items with ridiculous price tags and it's part of the problem because if everyone thinks the same, the item doesnt even make it onsite in the end (and here goes the cycle)

You are both very scary people. :D

I don't know seems like lately lots of users have been having IRL  issues where money is tight.  I personally have had that.  So it has been harder for artists to sell their designs when they do that (I know [user=sonatine] [user=violin] [user=blazhy] and a few others have had designs for sale and they just aren't selling.  Most of it seems to be IRL issues.  But also I think that due to the slotting issue everyone is having it is harder to spend money on an item where you aren't even going to make the money back in CSC.  As a seller, I have had to put so many items direct to shop lately.  So not only am I spending the money for the design, but also the money to put it on site.  Granted some of my ideas may not be the greatest and I just kinda want for me anyway, but still it is tough to say "I will spend $30+ on a commission, and then I need to spend an additional $15 to get it on site."  It gets rather expensive :(  And I think that has alot to do with it as well.

 I especially have issues with how some of the submission prices are.   Granted I have only been releasing for a year now.  So I am not sure how submission prices worked in the past, but some of the categories seems so condensed.  The fact that a huge full arm tattoo would be the same as a tiny one spot one doesn't feel right (You wouldn't walk into a tattoo shop get a 1inch by 1inch tattoo along side someone getting a full arm sleeve and expect to pay the same price as them).  Same with hair styles.  The fact short styles cost as much as long ones to submit. 

I'm with @Sage on the fact that I really dont understand some users that slot and but a CW today, get it and within less then 24 hours of it being on site pawn it.  What was the point?    You basically just tossed away how much csc because pawning it you aren't getting that money back.  AND you are ruining the chance of a the original seller of potential sales and trying to get some of their money back that it cost to get it on site.   But Im not sure the pawn shop is the full cause either...before they had that sale last week and changed the way the shop looks, so I can't tell, the shop was up to over 30 pages.  So people aren't even really buying in the pawn shop any more either.  

I like the idea mentioned that users could be able to potentially set up items in their regular shops to sell for CSC instead of sP.  The items would then show up in shop searches.  OR at least make it where those selling in the R200 board put the items in a shop or trades so when users do a search they can see the items more easily.  That could keep more items out of pawn.  

You know I didn't know about Subetaspeaks until about a year ago.  I only go there to have a good laugh about people complaining about another user.  Um...if you don't like the user...ignore them.   But guess its easier to go gossip...OHhh I need to go read now see what is happening that I don't know about and who is just the worst. :) 

@Beach @Reaper you see this topic?

OH I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN LOL yes, it makes sense indeed LOL. I also love the idea of a "class" sort of and also 's idea of a friendly introduction thread!!

I understand what you mean, even lowering it by 50 csc would make it a lot more encouraging. I do hope that staff would consider this because it makes a lot of sense in terms of pushing growth!

Ah yeah I understand the intimidation aspect. I've been in the CW market for quite a while and I literally had 0 guidance when I started. That guidance thread sounds really good, maybe it could also be a joint thread with the CW tutorial compilation thread that was suggested earlier.

Dw, I'm sure something will come to you. And support is great, we need all the support we can get so this gets noticed by higher ups!

I'm seeing hecka good ideas rn (I love the delete for CSC option)

YAYAYAYA for sure. I mean, we are spending CSC for CWs and stuff for slots and things! I'm not really sure if it's so much part of the $$$ website income as it is us spending CSC and then having to buy more to buy more CSC. LOL. && truu about Jessi working alone now and the amount of people who would flood her with tickets u___u idk GURL I just woke up when I posted LOOL

true I wish we got a little bit more insight. and yeah, I think blogs can't be regulated that because it's not related with their terms and agreements or something so it's not relevant to them.

idk.

Well I know that there was this old blog called subetadrama or something like that they did get deleted. And some of these blogs do verge on harassment and personal attacks on individuals,

I just personally feel like getting these blogs closed is not a main priority because shit is going to be said regardless if its on a blog or not.

A CSC priced shop for personally owned CWs would be the answer to many people's prayers. It is an absolutely genius idea! 💋

and I were discussing your question only yesterday. I buy all of my CSC with $. I would tell you how much I have spent, but the last time I looked at it I had to smack myself really hard and it hurt.

Also, I have never broken even, let alone profited from any of my CW releases.

This is how I feel about releasing more CWs:

The BIG DOG always wins.

true especially because subeta has nothing to do with it anyway ^__^ idk tho. what do you think would help people stop having such a negative view on the community then

hello fellow Del Rey lover!

I love the idea of a cw introduction page for beginners! Both for people who want to create, those who want to set up a shop and generally how it works. I mean, it could even just be a sticky thread on top that helps people. Lots of people are very clueless about how it works and then if it's not a structured guide, it becomes quite overwhelming (and then we scare them away ;; )

Im hoping that regular csc-priced shops could help the pawn shop issue a bit because regular users who dont necessarily check r200 or dont want to dab in the cw world too much could still purchase stuff. It's widely known that whenever there is a pawn shop sale, many of the items are grabbed by users we don't even know!

i know a few people who told me they had to give up on releasing cws because it was costing them way too much - it feels like the releaser/commissioner should get more than what they currently have. Back in the days, I think it was possible - and they had decent profit to keep rolling. Nowadays, really not :/ (I definitely vote a compilation of tutorials + a thread to help > im assuming this would go in the discussion subforum of cws unless we can manage to make it a sticky thread on the cw forums!)

there has been two official cw contests and they were kind of... a mess in terms of handling lol I am assuming it's the reason why we've never seen a third contest to date, though I'd really love to participate in one again!

I also very rarely ping buysellcw and more often than not, id rather pawn than reping 20 times for the same damn items no one wanted the first time, let alone the twentieth time. It also doesnt look like too hard of a suggestion to implement, so here's hoping!

hello pretty lady! I think money has always been a factor (having IRL things to pay for etc) but nowadays, with cws being so hit-or-miss for the releaser, it's even more of a risk than it used to be. Before, you could more or less say 'im spending $50 for a hobby I enjoy and that's decently profitable' whereas nowadays it's more 'im spending $50 and im not sure I'll see the return of it'. I completely understand why this would deter people.

I agree that the submission costs are too large - a small tattoo shouldnt cost that much, nor should a short wig be priced just like a long one that falls to the ground. I'm not... sure staff would revise their prices on that but Im hoping there is enough insight here to atleast consider it!

The thing about SubetaSpeaks is that people think it's funny until they are the target of the mockery - then it's really not as funny. Sadly people dont think before writing hurtful words x.x

naw they cant be regulated. I dont think complaining is that much of an issue - freedom of speech hello, we should be able to voice our opinions! I have more of an issue when it concerns anonymous bitching though, because you wouldnt bullshit someone in their face - why do it behind a screen then x.x

IDK sob I had the same question on another post ehg, Its a hard question to address, I mean we could all kumbaya and pass out candy to newcomers

eck tell me about it. that gif is my life.

STILL THIRSTY FOR DEM RELEASE❤️ - It makes people laugh because I often get told "but you rarely buy anything/you don't wear cws/etc" and I'm like .. what. I'm biased bc I'm also not really invested here anymore but I don't think I could push myself to quit just yet. Anyway moving on ..

It has never gone down! There is also a top and a bottom each wave, but this time it simply never went down. At some point, the combo was CS release + CW + skyrocket of market = high demand - high price. I agree with you. The ratio is horrible and it gets a strain on the artists. I wouldn't want to be pushed and rushed to do commissions and get any form of problem because at some point, I wanted to slow down/reconsider. It's also hard on commissioners because if it fills with difficulty, it basically does not generate profits and does not encourage the creation of more cw. The market is saturated. I also believe that some items are not targeted to enough type of people. But again, that's left to people themselves. I guess they want that type of item themselve before catering to others.

Again, I agree. But who would pay to participate in interactive sessions? I do believe that Staff should be handling this and not their userbase. They created the wheel, they should continue to make it perform (but then again, UAs have a lot on their hands and basically we are shorthanded staff wise imo). @ Meso

The Subeta economy is basically taking the real life route. It creates a strain everywhere. It's okay to create a solid base of income, but make sure that it works the right way. I know what they told us that they wouldn't touch the economy and how they handle the ratio but it's getting out of hand. As long as there will be purchase and demand, they won't do anything.

I'd do it, but in such economy and instability? Not sure if I want to drop my cents just yet. @ Cathii

English is not my first language either. I'm as French as is :P I'll explain again what I meant (but I like 's idea too. I also believe that at some point, a register/list should be kept of how many copies remain onsite.

I meant that once you release an item in your shop. Someone buys it but after awhile, they decide that they are no longer interested in it. They go back to the shop and sell it back to this virtual machine that has nothing to take from the seller itself.

Explanation:

this was your idea though, I just formulated it into a csc-priced shop! n_n

I totally feel you on the money because... money spent on a hobby is one thing. Money spent on a sink is another and right now, it doesn't look like it's.. really.. worth... it? ;;

I'm hoping we can find ideas and suggestions that could help out commissioners because you shouldnt be essentially losing money every time you submit something.

I've only been around for almost two years now, but I can definitely say that when I first joined, there were A LOT more people commissioning things and releasing things. I used to come home from school and go through about 100+ pings. Keep in mind, I'm in all those same groups now and then some and I come home to a daily amount of anywhere from 30-50 and maybe a bit more of that on a good day.

I personally think that a lot of it is that we have less people playing actively. Subeta doesn't really do anything to appeal to new people. Sure, we have CWs and we have pets, but we don't really have anything that sets us apart that they can't get from other similar sites such as gaia, neopets, etc. We, as well as the staff, need to do something more to get Subeta back on the radar and get more people playing. If we can get more people playing it would not only bring in a new influx of artists, but people willing to commission as well.

Speaking from experience, CWs can be exhausting (as addicting as they are). It's really kind of a pain when you have something done that you like, but things fail to fill a single batch. Like others mentioned, the pawn shop is a big part of this. Something needs to be done about it. Whether it be staff more often deleting the items or like others suggested, being able to delete them for CSC rather then letting them rot in pawn for eternity.

As far as commissioning goes, I don't think it's the fact that people don't feel like commissioning the same artist (because I know I do), but we need to have more people actively willing to contribute to drawing. While I LOVE the artists that we do have, it would be nice to have some new people taking a try. The NewCW forums tend to just be the same people drawing things.

Going back to what Cathii said, I feel like some more official CW contests would be a great idea. I'd really just like to see the staff make an effort to try and get the market going again. While I know they work hard, they really need to bring new people in and make some changes to the way things are handled. We as users can really only do so much because at the end of the day, the staff has to be willing to work with us and compromise. But yeah, idk, it's just frustrating. Especially given that it tends to be the same people commissioning constantly. I just think there's a lot of work to be done, not that it can't, but it's going to take some time.

OKAY, I tired so I'm going to lay down and nap for a bit. xD

I knew there was someone sassy that I forgot to ping!!!!!!!!!

I agree with a lot of your points ah. I don't have anything to add, but I do hope Subeta invests some time into cws and enforces changes. They have a tendency to leave things after creating them, but this is just an important aspect that I hope the UAs do take the time to look into it.

Definitely bringing in more users through advertising and marketing should be something Subeta should be focusing on. I'm not sure how Subeta advertises as of now, but hopefully they can magnify this and reinvest some revenue into this area. Hopefully more changes can also be pushed if not by staff then by active Cw individuals in order to bring in more artists to create custom wearables for all of us commissioners.