Yeah that was an unfortunate statement our admins are going to have to live with.

The price didn’t need to be that high, it just needed to be exclusive. I think they would have had a similar turnout if there was a .5% drop rate (or whatever the lowest drop rate available would be for the amount of weapons in the box) of godlies and shoved them all in the same 125m box. Still release 40 of them, just make it so the top 1% isn’t the only people with access.

Only if there was an actual 24-hour limit enforced per person, and even then only 125 seems so low. At only 40 you'd have a different 1% but still only a 1%, likely less than that.

And the whole thing is unfortunate. That Purge said this was supposed to be an alternative to rewarding each tier like they did for the Gelatin War and FM/Omen plots doesn't make sense when it was all luck/timing/sP available this time (joke's on you if you were actually buying into Subeta's sP sinks, right?) and not actual reward for battle prowess. That this was supposed to be a reward for 'hard work' doesn't make sense when the Panzer Gauntlet was taken out of regular loot rotation for actually beating the opponent to put in a box instead, nor does it make sense when people who really did try to be diligent about restocks didn't get even one box while other people got four. Surely there was a better way, like maybe super-rare random drops in BQs. It isn't so much learning to live with their statements as the rest of us realizing they mean it.

spits out water That's insane. i love it. I'd be doing my BQs every gosh dang day then. :o

OOH. OR. There's this thing called....achievements, I think. Do a billion BQs, get this nifty rare weapon. Heck, if the boxes are going to stay, then drop a box after a billion BQs.

I will do a billion BQs til my fingers fall off from all the clicking.

1. w/r/t:
   Quote

   I haven&;t seen anyone promising an event; I know Purge and I certainly haven&;t. Is this a case of people misinterpreting Amber&;s talk about upcoming battle-related stuff and assuming it was bigger than it was? That said, we are planning a Gelatin War for this winter, and there will be a bunch of battling coming up in the fall.
   I was one of the people who complained about the panzer hydra gauntlet and asked after summer battle events.

https://subeta.net/news.php?act=comments&newsid=20550

https://subeta.net/news.php?act=comments&newsid=20615

Now perhaps I am naive, but because they’ve never done something like this before, and because I had understood that all of the coding resources were going towards the site re-code, and not one-off things like this, I did in fact expect an event, not a loot box. Disregarding all the drama about the items and the prices and everything else -- this box showing up when I expected an actual activity is a disappointment all by itself, lmao.

---

2. I spread my funds across my wardrobe and my pets/armory, and I accept that that means certain things will forever be out of my reach because of this. So really, I'm not mad about the loot boxes, just disappointed at the way all of this went down. (It's my own fault for assuming that weapons I saw and played with in the wardrobe would be something to be earned.)

Ultimately my issue is with the way the battle admins seem to say one thing and do another.

We'd actually discussed this earlier during this war and it's on our list of things to do next year (we haven't settled on a number of wins yet, though; I'm not saying it's necessarily going to be the 100 tier). We don't want so many of these things going out that they lose their value (especially if they're components in top weapons), but we agreed that we'd like for people to be able to get two copies so they don't have to choose between the two uses.

You insist that you would like new people to start battling, but you always seem to cater to people who’ve been battling for years?

Locking old cash shop challenger loot to achievements meant anyone who bought into the system afterwards is automatically getting less than anyone who’d been able to buy, fight, and win previously. There’s no winning extra copies of edible and wearable weapons, there's only buying them off of people who were able to win them before the change.

Removing 5th win loot from event challengers and never bringing it back means either you win it right then and there or you never get a chance to try for it again. (Hello, panzer hydra gauntlet! Wish I never saw you. Would’ve saved me so much time and money if I’d never started battling in the first place.)

Repeatedly increasing the damage requirements for semi-seasonal event rewards like the hydragellos maniacal core because “too many might go out and devalue the item otherwise” means any newbies have to sprint to grow their pet large enough to be able to do enough damage in a reasonable amount of time… assuming the event is even run in the first place.

You say that you want to make things like the gelatin concoction available for people to win extras of, and then you come out with a loot box. As we’ve seen with the last few days, telling people they can go gamble instead of winning things themselves (because god forbid "too many" of them make it out into the world) is... displeasing to people.

Most of these things seem to only benefit the people who are already entrenched in the community, which gives it an air of exclusivity and unfriendliness to people outside of it (we look, y'know, gatekeep-y), and while you claim to like suggestions, you don’t seem to pay attention to/want to use any of them, even if it's just a request for additional tiers on an achievement, a request to put old loot back on a seasonal challenger, or even a request to just bring back a seasonal challenger period (Hoarfrost).

TL;DR: Current and past events do not do much for engendering faith in or positive feelings for battling or the people responsible for it. If thinking that makes me seem whiny or entitled, that's fine.

spits out water That's insane. i love it. I'd be doing my BQs every gosh dang day then. :o

OOH. OR. There's this thing called....achievements, I think. Do a billion BQs, get this nifty rare weapon. Heck, if the boxes are going to stay, then drop a box after a billion BQs.

I will do a billion BQs til my fingers fall off from all the clicking. I actually thought about saying that as well, but I don't know how easy counting BQs would integrate in with the achievement system. If it's possible, yeah, that would also be cool.

Thank you so much for also noting your reaction to the handling of the Panzer Hydra Gauntlet. I was so worried that I was the only one who felt that way.

Your point about old Cash Shop challengers being turned into achievements, so only one copy for newer people, is particularly poignant given that in their own statements, quoted for posterity, they want people to be able to get two copies. Just not new people though.

yeah, the hydra gauntlet will stick in my craw forever because it was literally the thing that made me take battling seriously and get involved in the community and whatever else. literally that specific set of loot! a friend very kindly gave me the headpiece from that same loot drop (which they've also never brought back), but the gauntlet... that'll be a dream forever, it seems.

and just to be clear, cranberry was ONLY speaking about the gelatin concoction with that quote, and i believe that conversation was well after the change to achievements for older cash shop challengers. it does certainly make the cash shop loot achievements look a little funny, though.

There actually already is an achievement for completing BQs. It has tiers up to 5000 right now, so adding new tiers to it shouldn't be an issue.

I'm also utterly dumbfounded at the panzer gauntlet situation too, you're definitely not alone.

On the topic of the boxes, I don't think I have anything to add that wouldn't just be beating a dead horse. But yeah, far as I'm concerned, every single aspect of this was handled extremely poorly. Completely tanking the economy, lootcrates, the protecting investments comment combined with putting a brand new godly in the box, lootcrates, the way staff responded in the news comments, the random restocks, not making the purchasing limits stricter to give more people a chance, lootcrates. Right, sorry, dead horse.

Oh, you're right! That explains where that Potion of Loyalty came from in my vault, must have dismissed the notification back way when. But yeah, that makes their method even more absurd since it's RIGHT THERE as a method! Arrghhh!

Yes, more tiers for BQs. Come on Subeta, i may not have 9bil sPs, but I sure as heck would do 1bil BQs.

I know you're joking, but just to put into perspective if you actually planned on doing 1 billion BQs, it would take you over 91,000 years haha.

Having some more tiers with rewards might be nice though to try to encourage more people to do them.

They actually did this for the past two gelatin wars. I was just ranting to my friend about how much I loved this and wish this would become the norm and that battling would be more about your own personal progress / gains instead of holding you up to everyone else. (but that might just be me, I'll go out on a limb here)

In this situation, if you're a top battler then congrats, your benefits from your arduous training beforehand is having to spend less time doing less work in the moment, but resting sure that you will get the reward. But at least everyone else still has a chance, they just have to work harder. Which they'll do if they get the chance to do it.

The first year they introduced this I worked my fingers off clicking for hours every single day and spending millions on repeated healing because I finally had a chance and I was scared they were going to take it away the next year. I've had the rug pulled out from under me so many times, finally getting big enough to defeat an opponent only for that specific reward to not be there anymore.

The next year I did have to work less, because my pet had become more powerful. I still had to click for hours, but it was noticeably less than before. That is seeing my own progress and having it matter. It made me feel like progress equals reward. I use the gelatin wars as measures for how good I've gotten since last time. I know it probably sounds no fun to the people who have already capped, but on my way up to that point, this is what I've liked the most.

I did not like instances when the top X of each tier gets the prize, because despite working my tail off, I had just entered the bottom of the next tier, meaning that there were tons of people in my tier that were inherently more powerful than me and so I got nothing. It made me feel like if I had just been slightly worse with my training, if I had just been in the previous tier still, then that would have been better than the actual progress that I made. It made me regret progressing. It made me feel like progress did not equal reward. And especially now that I've just entered tier 13, I will definitely not get anything with this method no matter how much I work because there are people with a decade over me at the very top.

I would just like to work independently and get linear rewards for my progress, not be held up to the best of the best and be told "look how bad you are in comparison, you get nothing." Maybe it's just me. Maybe I am actually just lazy and undeserving. Maybe that's not how battling is meant to be. But there's my two cents, from someone who has taken 10 years to get to this point.

I don't remember that, either. I'd love to know who made that promise! We've been BAs for 10 years now (as of last month), so if the promise was made by someone just before we were hired, we can't reasonably be held to that. THAT SAID, if someone finds that post and either Purge or I made it, we will add some of the promised godly to the Crystal Shop, sure. It wasn't me (or if it was I have absolutely no memory of it and it would have been out of character for how I did things). Ryan didn't say it when we were a team and I don't think he said it solo. Last time I remember gods in the crystal shop was when I got my O-staff, which I think was before I was made BC Admin. So that would have been Aaron. At latest maybe the overlap when I first started as junior BC Admin and Aaron was running the show. Though to be fair, I don't remember Aaron saying it either.

YES please give me more of an excuse to keep up with BQs plz

Yes this. There is already a battle quest achievement, so I know you're counter is on. More tiers please!

On the topic of top-tier items that have multiple uses...Would it be too radical to split all those items into two items? Weapon and wearable. Weapon and food. Weapon and whatever. Players who already own said item get both versions of it. For example, the acorn bomb. Split it into food and weapon. If I own an acorn bomb, now I have a weapon acorn bomb and a food acorn bomb. If I have two acorn bombs, I now have two weapon acorn bombs and two food acorn bombs. Then people could enjoy all uses of said items. It also means that players who want the weapon half could sell the wearable half (or vice versa), which could help stimulate the economy.

Is that too radical? Too optimistic?

Omg I love the idea of new tiers for BQ I would so do more! What about like wizard quest you get a buff and if you win you get something awesome. Something awesome could be insane amount of EXP or extra battle shop tokens??

Didn't mean to offend anyone. I'm in awe of the top battlers I've been the straggler trying to keep up. But have been guided along by most of them on a regular basis, and have really appreciated that.

Not a fan of the loot box idea, but I think what made it even more of a flop for most people was that it was the only new feature to be released for battling in years. I think a better compromise would have been to have retired weapons as a loot box money sink so you have the option of obtaining an old weapon you really wanted, but then make new functional weapons to generate more alternatives and more options for battling.

I understand it takes time to make new weapons, however there are so many low tier weapons that don't get used because they are awful and would benefit from an update in stats. You don't even have to do them all at once, just a handful at a time, test and release.

Alternative release methods in addition to the old weapon boxes that could motivate battling:

• Weapon achievement drops past 10 wins when you beat an opponent x number of times. For example, baal can only be won once, but can be used in three different ways. Adding an additional tier to the achievement to win baal at least gives users a chance to either get a different use out of a second baal or sell it to put the item in circulation.
• Weapon achievement drops when you beat x number of BQs (tiered). This way even the weakest pets could technically win something, it would just take longer and more effort.
• Add weapons in the battle shop for x tokens. There are only two weapons that cost impossible tokens and the inventory hasn't been rotated in years. Add more weapon options to the shop, give battlers incentive to battle. You can even have them in the shop for something like 100k easy tokens (just throwing a number out there) so that anyone through enough time and motivation can buy a wearable weapon. -More consistent battle events. It would be nice to have a gelatin war on a yearly schedule instead of every 2-3 years. Have a rotating stock of items go out as prizes that include weapons and scrolls. Again, it doesn't have to be brand new weapons. It could be a good way to re-introduce old weapons that got a revamp.

Yes, maybe a RE that has Reischen ask for us to attack some evil rare monstrosity, we go and fight it, and you get a lot of EXP or battle tokens or a major stat boost, YES! It'd be like a wild encounter! And it can be randomized difficulty, sometimes it will be easy, sometimes it will be hard? And he can tell you before you accept the task what the difficulty level is, and if it's not in your range, you can decline and wait for another RE to pop up.

That's brilliant! The only question is do you make the prize the same across the entire board regardless of difficulty, or scale it? I'm thinking make it the same across the board? Easy or Impossible difficulty, if you win, you can get, say, +10 points in Strength regardless of the difficulty level. But the reason to have various difficulties is so anyone can challenge it and win, it's not just catering to a pet that can beat Extremely hard opponents.

Okay, so 1 billion is a stretch for one person. xD But I think an additional amount of tiers in the achievement is doable. Perhaps that's something the BAs can consider asking whoever handles the achievements?

oh i also completely forgot --

Single Sheer Glove (all bases) for the other arm i'm the last post on this so i can't bump it up again, but apparently they've had the art for the gloves!

so i have no idea what happened with those (i really want them too!!) but at least they were technically unaffected by (gestures) all of this loot box nonsense i guess :s