(& speaking specifically to morostide, they've been pretty nice about bringing back lots of opponents, so if you were too weak to fight noflaik or organ collector one year, you have the opportunity to train your pet and try again the next year. this is also something i'd like to see more of, just in general. bring back the throwback challengers, please.)

ftr leveling up alchemy isn't expensive or time-consuming at all. you just need a bunch of tokens (most are pretty cheap) and then you just. click the token, make a random item, and refresh until you're out of tokens. of course when it comes to making the items you want, wearables are going to be a little pricier, but still come out to a fraction of what people resell the items for (wearable tokens are ~70k right now).

I am just going to say this in regards to battling: battle event prizes and battle loot should be awarded for just that - battling. Having an alternate way to just win a weapon that requires you to save sP or CSC instead of working hard to beat an opponent defeats the whole purpose of battling. Why should I waste hours trying to figure out a strategy to beat an opponent when I can wait for the staff to re-release the weapon for sp/CSC and then just buy it? There would be no point to battling if I can just buy a weapon without having to earn it.

The weapons in the antique shop that come from things like the reading drive/restock war old prizes IMO should have been released via the battle shop for X number of impossible tokens. This way you A) have a way to bring old weapons back into circulation and B) award battlers prizes for battling and C) Fill that shop with something that isn't the same stock that has been there for literal years.

In regards to battling being frustrating: It is frustrating for new battlers. However, you can have the best weapons and still be frustrated, lose A LOT and then feel like people "tricked" you into buying a weapon because they say it's "so good." Weapons are only part of the battle. Good strategies win battles and if you don't have that, you will still lose and still be frustrated. What will fix the frustration for new battlers are the things that I mentioned before:

1. Better official battle guides that are comprehensive
2. More community events that encourage people to help each other battle as a team
3. More consistent battle events to give the opportunity to win weapons
4. Better lower tier options so that you can hang onto weapons longer and not feel like you have to buy the best stuff every tier

Hey I just remembered games! Whatever happened to some of the games that got removed?

Inexperienced battlers don't have to stay inexperienced - train your pet.

Absolutely NO SUPPORT for loot from plot bosses to be given in any other way. That's cruelly unfair to people who spent BILLIONS training their pets. The loot they get is not worth the money they put into training them, so adding their prizes in another way is just twisting the knife in the wound.

I would however support a way to get old, non-weapon loot back in opponent's item drops.

As long as we're mentioning battling, I wish someone would look at the scrolls that are made at the Shrine and see if maybe the ingredient lists need rebalancing. Granted, it's probably just my limited experience, but I swear every scroll I've tried to make, the ingredient list is weirdly random as far as number of things needed and rarity goes.

"For this spell, you'll need one really cheap item with old ugly art that literally has no other use, and eight of this super rare item that's wearable AND required for an achievement AND used in seven other scrolls AND only stocks once or twice a month IF your wifi doesn't drop out suddenly."

Just to be clear: I am NOT asking for every item to be super cheap and easy to get. I am NOT asking for every possible ingredient to be used or for every scroll to be super amazing. I have NO PROBLEM with some items being rare or more difficult to get.

What I am asking for is an evaluation. Or re-evaluation, I guess. Are the ingredient lists made several years ago still basically fair today? Or would it be better to say, require lots of the cheap stuff and maybe 1-3 of each rare thing? Or if there are super rare items that are currently underpriced, would tweaking the requirements for scrolls help fix that? Maybe they're okay and don't need changing. I can accept that too, provided that analysis comes from someone who's fair and knows what they're talking about.

I wouldn't mind someone taking a look at the Poisonous Barrage scroll, too. It does what, maybe two or three icons and a miniscule chance to freeze? That's kind of pathetic for a scroll that requires 7 AP (a lot, at that level of battling) to use and is dropped by an opponent that has healing disabled. I don't know much about other scrolls dropped by opponents, I haven't gotten that far along yet. But very quickly I also want to mention that I do like the newest scrolls made from pieces that are dropped by opponents after a certain number of wins. I like that it does require work, actually battling far past the usual 10 wins, and that work pays off.

To step back from scrolls and address battling in general - honestly, I kinda get some of the frustration because I've experienced it myself. I'm only a casual battler, I couldn't explain the most technical things about it. And many times it does seem like the best weapons are super expensive and/or are locked behind plot opponents that we don't get anymore. I think it's perfectly fair that those who put in the time and effort to train their pet get super cool loot as a result: but I do want to point out that, since we apparently don't have the resources for plots anymore, newer battlers aren't getting anything to replace that super cool loot with. They're not getting their own unique experiences, their own sense of accomplishment, and I think a lot of people here, older players included, have either forgotten that or don't consider it at all. However, I've also been around long enough to see the battle system overhauled (twice I think? definitely once), and I've battled on Neopets, and I have to say that battling on Subeta now is as easy as it's ever been.

Of course the system's not perfect, far from it, but as far as improvements I think Wesker basically was spot on, I can't do much better than that. I'm not here to change anyone's opinion on battling, it's just not going to be everyone's idea of fun, and that's okay. But I think part of the hate and frustration stems from the fact that there are a LOT of components to battling: the training, the weapons, the mod crystals for those weapons, the scrolls, the potions/pylonics/etc that you can also take into battles, the EXP system, and so on - for anyone who's new to battling, that can get overwhelming pretty damn fast. As was already mentioned, more comprehensive guides may help with this. And by guides, I don't mean "buy this specific weapon(s) to win every battle!" because generally those don't age well, and sometimes aren't even accurate. I mean more like, "Here's what this opponent does, here's a strategy or two you can use," those are more flexible. Or "Here's what you'll want to look for when building your set, and here are a few examples." Guides that are just that - guides. Not an ironclad set of instructions that must be followed to the letter.

In fairness, I think some form of those guides already exist on the Battle Forum, but haven't been updated in a while and/or are broken because of new limits on post length. And I just took a look at the official beginner guide and it seems a little...glib? Like it was written by someone who was told how to battle from someone else, and doesn't really explain a lot. I mean, I get that it's a beginner guide and you don't want to overwhelm with too much information, but surely there's got to be a balance between too much and not enough. The current in-depth battling guide does a decent job of explaining some of the more frequently used terms, covering some aspects of battling, and what a battle step-by-step looks like (that last one is more like what I would expect a beginner guide to actually be), but putting links to some more information about making scrolls and using mod crystals would be helpful too, I think.

Maybe there could be a sort of cross between a battle quest and a tutorial. For example, the quest giver could hand the newbie a couple of super-cheap beginner weapons, go over how to equip and select them, then say, "Now go defeat Angry Arnold and come back." Then once that's done, the quest giver could give the newbie a potion or a shard, explain how to equip and select that, then say "Now go try it on that opponent, return once you're done." Same with a scroll. Same when it comes to learning about freezing and stealing. Same for adding a mod crystal. Something to help get someone used to battling bit by bit. I don't know if that sounds too tedious to go through or difficult to program, it's just a thought.

Also I started off talking about one thing angrily and moved into overexplaining something else, so this post is a mess and I apologize for that. I'm sure there's reasoning flaws and things I'm overlooking, but I've already spent an hour typing this up, my impatience is kicking in, and I don't feel like finding and addressing every single detail right this minute.

There needs to be a real incentive for battling. No support to making an alternative way for people to get battle rewards. Battling is hard work and it shouldn’t be made “easier” just so people can get the items. I say this every time the topic of “fairness” comes up, not everyone playing a game has to have the same items and achievements. Also, we want to get more people into battling, not give people an excuse to never battle because “I can just pay into the sP sink and unlock the battle drops.” I have bullshitted my way to T7 in the span of a year, through very casual sP-only training. Anyone who’s concerned about future battle opponents should start training now! We all know that battling is a huge part of the site and that there are battle events. Seriously just get started. You don’t even need to use stat boosters (which I often see people complain are very expensive) until your pet is like, some ridiculously high level that actually makes it cheaper to use the boosters than to use the training center. PLUS you get XP from battles and can spend it on skill points. Bonus if you have a reader pet, you use the AP points you occasionally get from reading to use scrolls. So reading is seriously beneficial in battling.

I like the idea of a battle tutorial opponent from ’s post above, maybe one that comes in multiple difficulties so at first it’s like “this is a weapon, this is a blocker, these are what the icons do” then it moves into “these are stealers and freezers and ooh what does this recycle gun do, “these are scrolls and this is how you make them,” and whatnot.

I also love ’s idea of putting old battle prizes into the battle shop for an appropriate number of tokens. Give us something to strive for, give us a reason to try and beat loads of incredibly difficult opponents, so we can get access to better weapons that will in turn let us take on stronger baddies.

Side note, I think the concern about plots being locked behind battle opponents is unrealistic at the current time and improving the battle system shouldn’t be hindered by those concerns. That said, there’s nothing wrong with having battle-focused events where battlers thrive for their hard work.

I just wanna say that I brought up the Islander vs Pirates plot because of the Antique Shop. The issue with that plot seemed obvious at the time and plots ever since have been significantly better. It's really the Antique Shop prices that are the issue, and while I would love a new coat of paint on the battle system (and more in-depth guides and tutorials so I spend less time combing thru old outdated threads!), for the most part prize distribution since that plot has never been an issue. I'd really rather talk about how I can get those blossoming buds without paying 75 million each, lmao. Like, can tweaking the antique shop prices for a plot that we can agree was unbalanced be a thing that's on the table? Can we get them out in another way? Throw us a bone on this particular shop, considering the original circumstances of that plot's prize distribution.

Even if we can't get it in an official way, someone could write up an interactive battle tutorial to be stickied on the forums. That way it takes someone new through the experience.

I can add in a section about making scrolls, that is a good suggestion that I didn't consider! And I can add more links and info for mod crystals, especially the ones I'd highly recommend for anybody getting into battling. Keep suggestions coming, I want to hear specifically from those who are having trouble getting into battling if there's something the guide isn't making clear.

Oh! By official beginner and in-depth guide, I meant the ones here and here respectively. Not any on the forums. Sorry for any confusion!

(I just now noticed your signature, I'd like to read through it on a day where I don't have to go to work, but just skimming it looks pretty good!)

(Also yes, I don't notice people's signatures, it's the same ones most of the time so they're just sort of background noise to me now)

Oh I forgot about those! Yeah, me and a couple others helped with making those two. I haven't looked at them in ages, but I think someone on staff mentioned they were going to receive an update eventually.

But I do still like your suggestions for the forum version of the in-depth guide, and I need to make a few updates to it anyways, so I appreciate it either way! ^^

it would be nice to get some new games. When was the last time they released a new one?

idk if i mentioned this in this thread before but i humbly come again to ask for any way to organize pets into categories,,, please lord i have nearly 70 pets and i'd love to drag them around into categories for organization purposes You could use those to separate battlers from others, or separate characters by story, or separate finished pets from unfinished, so many things that would be useful for people with a lot of pets <.<

I wonder how often this thread actually gets checked...

I want to see the referral system massively revamped. We used to have achievements for advertising and linking accounts etc and with the rapid decline of the user base there needs to be more effort to draw users back to the site.

Yes! But truthfully, I'd welcome any new stock in the Battle Shop at this point. When was the last time that shop got anything added to it?

There's someone here who livestreams subeta and posts about it on Twitter.

How do I know this?

because someone I mutual with retweeted it and says they watch them sometimes. They don't play, but they do watch.

That could definitely be a way to find more interested individuals Let the official twitter RT people who are livestreaming. Maybe it's not immediate (People could check the schedule to see when they'd return), but it would show those of us who already follow the OT to retweet it to our own followers - More exposure.

Oh, hi! Yeah, that's me! Thank you!

I'm a huge fan of Subeta and started off streaming Subeta on Twitch. I credit virtual pet sites with sending me down my career path as a social media specialist and I really want to see Subeta get more visibility. It does a lot of the things I wish other sites would do and I feel like it's safe for marginalized people to use this site, which is very important to me.

My only request would be that I would love for Subeta to have it's own tag on Twitch, too, if they can. I have viewers that show up every day to watch me do my quests and talk about site news, and it would be great if I didn't have to do that in the Just Chatting category.

Oh, hi! Yeah, that's me! Thank you!

I'm a huge fan of Subeta and started off streaming Subeta on Twitch. I credit virtual pet sites with sending me down my career path as a social media specialist and I really want to see Subeta get more visibility. It does a lot of the things I wish other sites would do and I feel like it's safe for marginalized people to use this site, which is very important to me.

My only request would be that I would love for Subeta to have it's own tag on Twitch, too, if they can. I have viewers that show up every day to watch me do my quests and talk about site news, and it would be great if I didn't have to do that in the Just Chatting category.

Oh cool! _ Since I follow the Subeta account, I expected that to have retweeted you...when I saw it was another person, I went "Wait, did I inadvertently follow another Subeta player?"

There's plenty of opportunity to easily appease the battle community that just gets overlooked. Do like most games and just barely tweak things to make something new: i.e. this years secret challenger theme is Possessed NPC's. It would be incredibly easy to just take the existing gelatin war concept and replace the challengers with a possessed concept. All NPC's got repossessed and are sent out in waves....no additional art needed. No restats. Minimal programming.

I agree with on battle related prizes being re-released to be battle related (at least for non consolation type prizes). Something like the above could easily be used to reintroduce weapons. I'm not sure what justifies putting the Wrath of K and SoSS in there in unlimited quantities while the OG godlies (which were also not really battle related on there own as a reading contest prize) and other top tier prizes are unobtainable. I think those top tier weapons should be given a publicly set date to retire out of the Antique Shop a few months out (12/31/21?) and the rerelease of top tier weapons be consistent.

Utilizing the battle shop for top tier weapons gives me a little heart burn considering it would be unfair for battles who have already grinded out wins and spent those tokens with how stagnant the shop has been. I like the idea of a new currency. A challenger for each season (with a theme) that drops a new currency (achievement locked with the ability to get one each season). This currency can be used to dump in high tier weapons for X currency and since it's so limited in quantity - the BA's would be able to easily monitor how many can be obtained and should go out.

I too would love to see more battle content. While the cash shop challengers are nice, and I'm definitely enjoying the story for them this year, it's rather plain to steamroll 10 wins with my near capped pet in minutes and be done.

I feel it would be much more exciting to be rewarded for challenges - give me a reason to battle challengers dozens to hundreds of times to a point where chain freezing is not enough and I actually need to think. One idea could be to reward a new currency when you defeat a challenger with 3x pet's stats, 4x, 5x, etc. It would be a challenge for small and large pets alike... each tier having different weapon availability for different strategies - stats giving you a larger pool of challengers at endgame rather than just numbers to overpower everything.

As for rewards, I agree with everyone that battle-related prizes should only come from battle-related content. That said, I dont agree with re-releasing old prizes... leave them as relics of the past. I dont see a reason to reduce the value or memories that come with earning those rewards compared to just releasing new prizes - either with similar power or greater even. In fact, for almost all the OG godlies and prizes of old it's rarely about their stats as there are excellent alternatives already for what they do. Disclaimer: I am biased since I did spend a ton of time saving tens of billions of sP to buy godlies and old prizes that I've missed.

Lastly, random idea for battle shop prizes for high tier challenge content: Spend currency to unlock exclusive forum titles, HA/Pet borders, tiered trophies for user profile, battle record reset, level leeches, re-stat ticket (refunded as EXP Points), +1 stat cap breaker... At the very endgame, prizes dont always need to be weapons, scrolls - they can just be useless things to flex or things to provide as convenience.