I'm sure they're aware, but it would be nice to see them post exactly what they told Soph instead of using someone to relay a message. :/

Yeah it really reeks of the desire to avoid personal responsibility for the direction of the discussion. I really wish we heard more from mods, as people, with their own opinions, instead of just.. someone who pops onto the forums to tell users to shut up.

It's not like them to avoid talking with us directly like this. But I do know they are also busy. Maybe they're discussing it amongst themselves before they come here and say something?

That kinda was my whole point in posting this. I want some sort of clear guidance from admin about how to handle foreign language.

We've already heard from many concerned parties, and I think we've come up with a pretty comprehensive idea of what we're looking for and hoping from admin.

And really, I would like this to be in as black and white as possible in the actual rules of Subeta. But until that can happen, some sort of official feedback would be appreciated.

People can post responses to tickets, and that is helpful for guidance, but without official backup it can easily become hearsay.

In the event that they’re just talking it over first, I would.. kind of wish that there would be a more public and open conversation about it. I just hope that once Keith gets back, this thread doesn’t get locked like every other thread they’ve deemed “out of hand,” leaving them room to make a news post with a shiny brand new thread linking none of the earlier related threads, forcing us to start the discussion all over again and bring up “unrelated topics” which we’re then told not to discuss. :)

Threads get locked when things get heated and people start making personal attacks (or taking things personally - sometimes both). So far that hasn't happened on this thread to the extent that it warrants locking the thread.

I do agree that it is frustrating when the conversation naturally digresses to other, related, topics and we're told we can only discuss them on different threads. However, there is some merit in that - sometimes digressions really deserve their own conversations, and if not kept in check some can really derail the intended conversation. Again, I haven't seen that happen too much here.

I believe all forum mods are unpaid, but there are few that are a part of admin, and those are paid. I've always been kinda fuzzy on that. (I want to say those that can post in purple are paid?) They do occasionally post newly opened positions in the Announcements subforum.

Also, I meant to say earlier: I disagree with 's statement that an "allowed" list wouldn't be feasible. There are certain words, and certain categories of words, that are clearly not English but which it sounds like Subeta admin would have no problem with users using. Only...that has not been conveyed to us. In a way, it sounds like there already is a list, even if a very informal one.

I do agree, however, that an allowance for context is the greater importance here.

You’re right, the thread hasn’t devolved and I’m hopeful it doesn’t.. but if it goes the same way as, for example, discussion about the big wardrobe glitch several months ago, they locked the original thread, citing that they didn’t need it open anymore due to the creation of their own thread & news post, and neglected to link the original thread in their news post, leading to many users speculating on things that had already been answered by staff on that thread. (CLICK HERE for the news post, but for some reason I’m struggling to find either the original thread or the thread which I was conviiiinced was posted alongside the news post, or soon after.) I understand the reasoning behind it, no duplicate threads n’ all, but to me it just feels like several pages of user discussion have to be re-had in a new forum with less context.

Huh, I wonder how many paid staff Subeta has. Keith has said he doesn’t make money off the site anymore.

50000% agree with the points on here, and also extremely disappointed (though not surprised sadly) to see no mods actually responding.

also ugh, if they're "talking" about what to reply here, which honestly is a big if, the least they could do is chime in with a "we are currently discussing how to officially respond" rather than sending a user as their messenger and only popping in once to give a vague ominous warning after someone mentioned the hella xenophobic recent usage of the rule...

hmm, I'm getting hungry. better not mention that I'm going to make "popular Mexican-American dish with a hard or soft "unleavened bread" shell around spiced meat, lettuce, cheese, and other toppings" for lunch.

I don't think that's really fair. Mods, whether paid or not, are doing a job, and they have to adhere to the company's policies. I know sometimes the lines get blurred here because mods play the game with us, and sometimes it seems like everything can be resolved swiftly and chummily. But that's not really how it works. Getting mad at them for not responding to a post like this or for doing their job (such as warning a user who is straying off topic) would be like getting mad at a customer service rep (who's also your neighbor) for not giving you a steep discount on your cell phone bill.

...which, I know, happens. But I'm just trying to point out mods do not have the power to effect that sort of change in the open like this, and it's futile to get mad at them for it, and that attitude doesn't really help anything.

Admin do have the power to make changes, and they should be responding to this thread, or to this issue in general. That I'll 100% agree with. And I hope they do address it soon. But I also want them to address it after giving it a lot of thought and not rush into any rash decisions, and I'm aware that there's a lot of other things going on right now.

I'm not going to be silent about this as long as I have the energy to fight for it, and I hope others will keep bringing it up too. But I can be patient.

Or tl;dr - let's not make this a battle against the mods. Let's make this a discussion with admin that will lead to a change that everyone can live with.

Once again, a mod decided to warn someone for translating the name of a Subetan country, and decided not to warn someone else in the same thread who was being violently xenophobic.

Nobody's trying to have a battle here but let's not pretend there isn't a moderation issue at the heart of this.

Of course the moderation issue is at the heart of this. This is a moderation issue.

But mods uphold the rules. So if mod behavior doesn't make sense, then the rules need to change, or the rule application needs to change.

(If it's a rogue mod not applying the rules the way they should be applied, that's a different matter altogether.)

But demanding mods speak up on this thread individually isn't going to help the issue. It is, frankly, a bit threatening, and if I were a mod, the more people demanded my presence on a thread and scorned my absence, the farther away from that thread I would stay.

And I'm just going to point out one thing here: I'm the OP of this thread, and I think that this is getting pretty off-topic. I wholeheartedly agree with you that addressing xenophobia is also an issue, but if you feel strongly about it, please, go make another thread.

This thread is about foreign language use and the English-only rule.

Written was right earlier in the thread. Mods - purple icons - cannot warn people. Mods can tell people to stay on topic, and lock the thread if needed. They do not have the authority to discipline in any way.

User Admins can. Whoever gave the warning is an admin, not a mod.

Again, the forum mods aren't the problem.

Ever hear of the Tower of Babel....??

Found it! Odd that it is in Waterbury Connecticut...

Seriously though.... I don't expect any rule updates until the California fires are out, Hurricane season is over, and the staff members aren't dealing with evacuations anymore. Then there is Fireside and Luminiare site blowups to deal with.., not to mention they will probably want to get the "New" Subeta finished and ready to go before they are likely to re-visit this topic. Hopefully we can get the English-only rule modified, or at least a detailed clarification of all of it's exceptions, with the launch of the promised new features.

Yeah realistically this isn’t something that’s gonna get addressed soon. But I hope it is within a relatively timely manner; it’s important that all the mods (AKA people who have the power to moderate on a website—they’re all mods) are on the same page. It currently seems like there are different rules dependent on which forum you’re on. For example there’s a year-old thread in Item Suggestions in which users are requesting more Chinese dishes, using Chinese characters with English translations, and that seems to be alright. So why was the same mode of communication—very limited Chinese with English translations provided—disallowed on another forum? It’s silly, it’s confusing, and it probably pushes people away. If the site wants to attract and maintain users, which they’ve been talking about for months, they’ve gotttt to get the mods on the same page, and listen to users who have very good suggestions on how to do that.

Just saying, I lived in California for 20 plus years and my friends BOTH in northern California and southern California are safe. My friends in norcal say that the only people at risk are around the most north of Cali. Safety is number 1 priority but some admins or mods are east coast right? I'd say everyone at risk take care of their own stuff while everyone who is safe brainstorm about this.

It'd be nice if this language stuff is taken care of soon... at least by Fireside time or so. It shouldn't be so black and white that oh hey absolutely NO foreign language is involved cuz I'm fairly sure a few mods are poc or learned new languages so they know how to speak/read multiple languages. It's hard to implement, but something should be done?

I disagree with this. The English-only is a pretty standard rule in a lot of forums across the internet. The benefits of this rule include a common language for user communication and easy moderation by the staff to ensure user safety. Having the rule be more vague allows staff to make judgement calls on appropriate use.

I am sure most people can differentiate between what is and isn't standard English. I haven't seen anyone saying they used language that they genuinely considered to be English and were warned.

As for foreign words that everyone knows - this is not a given. I, for one, don't know ANY Mandarin. I grew up in an environment where everyone knew at least basic Spanish so I was shocked to go to a new area and find out people couldn't even understand a simple question in Spanish - but it is what it is.

Names are proper nouns so they aren't used for communication purposes. So long as they remain a name, they aren't considered common nouns.

looks at UN Lol. I feel a little singled out here. (I know I'm not but I felt the need to poke my head back in for this one. Carry on!)