I agree that the rule should be changed to allow, within reason and context, non-English words and characters to be mentioned in public areas of the site. It’s pretty silly that Subeta uses real-world etymology, history, and cuisine from countries around the world, but having a conversation about those names&items could result in a warning.

If I compiled a list of all the items with non-English real-world names, and wrote them all in the same post, I wonder if I’d get warned? XD

So, technically, I wasn't allowed to mention my pet Chuuni in the forums - because the name is short for the Japanese 'Chuunibyou'? Good thing I changed her name, then...

I can’t support changes to this right now. Something like this that requires more work for the unpaid moderators while Subeta is running on a skeleton crew in a pandemic can wait.

Support. I think translators have gotten better these days, and a quick run through Google translate should give enough context of a conversation. I understand why this may not garner much support right now, but perhaps it should be a bit more relaxed, more of a reminder than a flat-out warning given.

There's also a difference between mentioning a foreign word or phrase (such as "I came, I saw, I conquered" but I can't post the Latin because OOPS foreign language) in passing versus an entire conversation. I think that's what needs to be examined regarding the foreign language rule, is not punishing a basic foreign word. Unless obviously the one foreign word is being offensive, but again, translators should pick up on it.

It's good to have all discussion on forums in one language, easier to follow and moderate, but not being able to mention foreign pet name, song title or setting a user status in one's language (?) is effin absurd. My username is not English either and it shows on forums (gasp!), should I get a warning for that? Geez.

Honestly when someone is being xenophobic and doesn’t get a warning or reprimanded by staff AT ALL for the things they’re posting (and we’re told staff WONT step in until they’re reported even though staff clearly READ the posts in question they just don’t seem to care until it’s reported and that seems very very wrong and lazy) but people defending themselves and their first language do for trying to properly correct the person with the correct phrase the person was not saying correctly, I just can’t support staffs decision.

If I get a warning for targeting for this I’ll be angry but not surprised because it’s really seeming like staff are protecting people who make xenophobic posts and not the people who are against it.

So by this logic, I'm going to get a warning for mentioning

I agree these foreign rules definitely need to be revisited because I'm not about to talk about my pets like "My favorite profiles I've done are for August as well as "my custom darkmatter irion".". It's no wonder the forums are dead with rules like that.

Would I get a warning for my Paralix? Because his name is the Japanese word for "night". :/

Oh I totally agree. At the very least the rules should be a little more accomodating to ESL members. Like, the fact we can have foreign language in some places but not others is really confusing. I'm from the cw community and have used Chinese characters in cws (and in custom overlays too for that matter) often, and have thankfully never had trouble. But I was also given an official (not just verbal haha ) warning a few days ago for posting Chinese on a thread that's topic was Chinese. So there seems to be a lot of room for um confusion.

[edit] Also my username is japanese. 🤔

oh that's good to know ' v ' and makes it extra confusing why you can't even post foreign pet names on forums?? apparently?? what is this rule lmao

imo tidbits of foreign language should be allowed, but the base vibe i get reading the posts here is a general unwillingness to adapt to the changing times, which is strange considering how frequently we get political news posts now. if subeta is meant to be all-inclusive then be all-inclusive. a subforum is a grand idea but probably too big a step - it would cause a rift between the language bases. staffing is short, i get that. moderation is difficult, i get that. so allow tidbits. yall can handle tidbits. yall can google short words or phrases that you don't recognize, it isn't hard. the US is already separated into little niches of their own anyway, and different English words aren't known to different states or even counties. its no different to comparing soda to pop to cola. hell, every other day a new meme comes out that needs to be translated from english to.. english. as im typing this it was presented to me that another person's perception of the rules is 'no foreign written characters' rather than the language itself. that i can understand - Kanji, or Sanskrit, or something to that effect. that would be a bit harder to translate. dunno. good luck yall.

I agree with the sentiment Satan has given here, largely, however I also see the issue from a moderation perspective, that is, if foreign languages are allowed, where is the line between "too much" and "that's okay". Furthermore, it would require moderators who are able to speak a variety of languages enough to be able to tell nuance / context / if someone is flouting or breaking rules in another language. And Google Translate can't do everything.

I definitely can see both sides of the coin on this issue, and with this being an internet forum / game, it's a tricky sticky ground to navigate, as it really comes down to "where are the lines drawn".

Again, I quite agree with the sentiments Satan above me has posted on this, nice post Satan haha.

Hey, why is she allowed to use gratuitous french but I can't?

Explain this!

All of the support.

I don't think any rule anywhere has ever vexed me as much as the English-only rule on here. I understand that it presents an additional challenge for moderation but even other petsites with much stricter chat rules have managed to allow the use of multiple languages. If that is just completely beyond the realm of possibility for Subeta at this time, then please at least allow the use of foreign words and phrases in a mostly-English context, as has been suggested above. This rule has led to some truly ridiculous conversational workarounds and warnings.

I didn't even know we technically weren't allowed to mention our pets with foreign names. Guess I'm lucky I've never gotten a warning for that because many of my pets do have non-English names. What if it's my "leashed" pet? My active pet on my hover? Even though I'm not writing it out, those words effectively get "posted" along with the rest of my post. How is that different from typing it into this box? That is so silly.

I agree with most users that context matters. While it's not feasible to have full discussions in foreign languages on subeta, words and short phrases should be allowed in the right context. I also want to echo what OP said about how to define "English".

A simple example would be somebody posting the romanization of the Chinese characters (PS. not Shengui Guo, because apparently Shengui Guo is deemed English and safe on site). I've definitely seen romanization of Chinese characters allowed in forum posts. I'm not trying to get anyone in trouble, but just to show how difficult to be consistent in language rules if it remains absolutely strict.

I don't believe non-native Mandarin speakers would understand the romanizations, so why are they deemed OK in some cases, but the actual Chinese characters are not? The romanization of the Chinese characters merely represent the pronunciation. To fully understand the meaning, you need to see the actual characters. Allowing the romanization is actually more dangerous than allowing the actual Chinese character because it'd be easier for mods to google translate the Chinese characters in a more accurate way.

I'll give you an example since Shengui is allowed in forum posts. Shengui can mean at least four common phrases in different characters (I'll use ABCDEF to represent the six characters involved here so you can see how each meaning have characters that are similar or different from the other meanings):

1. godly turtle (AB)
2. gods and ghosts/demons (AC)
3. a rich/noble family's daughter's room in ancient China (DE)
4. deep in the closet (DF)

How do you know a simple romanization of a Chinese character is not a banned word?

Always been surprised by that rule.

Can you imagine if a business, we’ll say a coffee shop, had a sign plastered that said “English only” and their excuse was “It’s not racist we’re just trying to keep people safe.”

That coffee shop would get shut down so fast it would be in the news.

I found this thread interesting and have been reading along (as well as the thread about allowing foreign characters in pet names) and finally felt the need to chime in here because while I don't want to derail from the original topic at hand, creating a second thread just about pet names seems like splitting hairs/creating clutter? As long as OP and staff don't mind I feel this conversation fits best in this thread.

Anyway, my point.

I would seriously love some clarification (and heavy reconsideration, tbh) of this rule in regards to pet names. At what point does an otherwise allowed name of a pet cross a line to so much as mention. As others have mentioned; are active pets okay? Leashed? Many people have sCode linked their pets with foreign names, and some of those pets are spotlight winners. If a foreign pet name is okay to display on the news page, which anyone can view, then at minimum we should be allowed to refer to a foreign named pet by their name here on the forums/in comments/etc.

This site rule also conflicts with others, like the rule for the pet adoption forum:

So, if someone were adopting out a foreign RW named pet, would they be required to name the pet or not allowed to? My gut instinct says name the pet, but there's a clear contradiction here which would leave users to interpret which rules to follow and which rules not to follow, which is a whole can of worms I'm sure no one wants to open or be responsible for.

To speak personally about this, I have 4 foreign RW pet names (and many foreign RN pet names, fwiw) with more planned, and I genuinely never considered that so much as mentioning them by their name might be breaking a rule. I very strongly feel this should be changed/that context should be taken into consideration when issuing warnings about this rule. If I were trying to have a conversation in Polish that would be one thing (and I'm not bilingual (yet!), so it truly would be trying lmao) and understandable, but I would really love to be able to mention my pet named after a Polish RW (the word for "cosmic", nothing offensive and something easy to check if there were any worry; unlike a complex and nuanced sentence, which would be harder to check and thus moderate) by name instead of, well, I guess a long and convoluted sentence alluding to them. (And I understand moderation is a concern, but I feel as though a single pet name is no harder to check than English slang or an obscure English word, so idk, maybe I'm being naïve, selfish or inconsiderate but I genuinely don't see much of a difference.)

So conflicting rules aside and just for the sake of enjoying the site and interacting with people I feel strongly this rule should be revisited. I'm glad I know about it now at least, but as someone who considers pets to be the main draw of this site for them it makes me kind of sad. I'm not the most social person, so it wont be hard for me to just refrain from posting about them/staying out of threads I might otherwise talk about my pets on, but that... seems counterintuitive/less ideal than a bit of leeway.

tl;dr Clarity on acceptable exceptions are a must, and I would really, really love for staff to revisit this rule as a whole and allow for some reasonable exceptions.

I... genuinely don't know why people started freaking out about their foreign petnames? Foreign petnames have been allowed on the site since it was still in diapers.

Staff were going to look into whether it's possible to make petnames have things like umlauts and whatnots so... It feels like a lot of folks are freaking out for the sake of freaking out. Foreign words as petnames were only ever an issue from a tech standpoint iirc. I really doubt anyone's going to get banned for posting on the forums about having a subetapet named Yuji, Adler, Spatzle or Wiener.

About pet names:

I'm pretty sure that you can mention the names of your own pets. (Though honestly this rule and its inconsistent application has me questioning everything.) That would include leashings, active pets, etc.

However, where it gets weird is discussing the names. If I say "I have a pet named Bob, which is the Russian word for floating in the water" (it's not), am I now using the word "bob" in a foreign language way? This goes back to the demonstrative use of foreign language words that I've advocated for since the first post and which has been disciplined by mods in the past.

It gets weirder when you consider that the use of diacritics and such which would make a word/name appear more foreign. So now, if I have a pet named Bôb, and I mention him on the forums, will mods be able to tell the difference between pet names and usage of foreign words? Would the use of the special marks cause a red flag?

And as would seem to be indicated in the answer to my ticket, you can't just suggest foreign words as pet names on the forums. So you can't go up to someone who is like "what should I name my pet?" and say "Have you considered Bob? It means floating in the water in Russian and I always thought that was beautiful. And here are a few other Russian words I think would make good pet names and their meanings."

The problem is not the black and white. You can say, "This is my pet Bob." It would be just like saying, "This is my pet Aasldhfhdfh" or anything else that is clearly not a real word from a real language. The problem is the gray areas and how the mods address them. The problem is this arbitrary limitation of demonstrative use of foreign language that forces users to look for other ways to discuss things like the above example conversations.