You started the semantics argument, so I'm not entirely sure what you expected there... ?

If you know the site is not sustainable then what are we doing here? If you admit that the site cannot support itself, what is the point?

There are many people like me who would happy pay if the site actually worked. Making hints that those of us saying we are no longer willing to pay for a completely broken product or cannot afford to spend money on a luxury is contributing to the problem is really.....distasteful, honestly.

It is helpful to let users know you are investigating. An actual news post from Amber or Rah stating that you knew it was a memory leak and were working to fix it as soon as you knew honestly probably would have prevented this entire thread from happening, or at least a good chunk of it.

Gaia and Neopets get sold for less and less money because people get tired of the corporations running them trying to be entirely for profit and not caring about their users. Sites like FurVilla and Flight Rising are popping up and doing okay because they aren't that, and I think the users here are sticking to Subeta for the same reason.

If the lag was 100% resolved, if the site didn't lag and crash and die every time there was an event, the site would get more long-term users staying around, more new users signing up and staying around, and more people more willing to put money into the site. But at this point all I see is a broken site with an insanely understanding and loyal user base that's willing to put up with the problems in some vain hope it'll get fixed as has apparently been promised for literal years and staff that keep the users in the dark about what is going on or even if they are aware an issue exists at all until a shitstorm like this starts and the incident is resolved.

Double post due to lag, yay!

whoops... a double post 'somehow'. ignore this :P

The first posts where not suggestions for improvement, they where "be less nice", my argument was "don't be less nice", not semantics.

I would absolutely donate to a GoFundMe for Subeta. I dropped Gaia like a hot potato once it became clear what the new owners wanted it for ($$$$) but I've never felt that way here, and I would be devastated if Subeta disappeared. It already makes me sad that I can't power through the lag like I used to - I just don't have the time.

I am legitimately not saying this to be mean, but I think it might be a good idea to work on your ability to read a post and think critically about it, because Sigilmancy was not suggesting being mean when they posted about being less nice, and that was very apparent to me on the first read. You did start the semantic argument, and it was because you misread the post. Again - not to be mean.

Agreed! I dropped Neopets for Gaia, and then Gaia for Subeta for those exact reasons back in the day. I forget why I left Subeta but now I'm starting to remember, and it's really sad.

Users would happily donate if you'd let them. I don't remember there being any kind of fundraising/GoFundMe/ect but if there was one I bet the money would be raised right quick as long as it meant it would go directly towards the site getting all its issues fixed.

Maybe because they care about trying to run the site? Maybe because they care about trying to do something that makes people happy?

But hey, what do I know? I’m allegedly just some person blindly defending staff and not, you know, someone who thinks putting someone under more intense stress than they already are is unhelpful.

I'm going to repeat the advice I gave Mackenzi, and for the same reason. Critical thinking skills are important. No one has said they wanted staff to be more stressed - if you have to put words in other people's mouths to make your argument, your argument is weak.

I agree, though. I'm glad they aren't throwing in the towel, and I don't plan on abandoning Subeta entirely. I would like to see it be more stable, and it would be easier for me to justify spending more if it were (I can't justify a GA if the lag is too bad for me to quest, sorry Keith), but the sunk cost fallacy got me bad :B

(eta: that's a joke, I just like it here)

@/raumlet It's a good thing you're here to teach us fools ♥ Advice in return: it's time to chill.

[edit] I'm also appreciative the site stays up, and I'll keep buying CSC for the beautiful bonus items as long as the site exists and I've got the cash. It's truly been a great place these last ten years, especially when I don't try to argue with people on the forums. :P

ikr <3 anyway, off topic here

@ Keith Same! And I appreciate that. I do plan to buy a GA with the CSC I bought earlier if the site is stable, so I really hope those bug fixes worked.

Thanks for assuming I didn’t do what you’re suggesting to me before I made any of my posts.

And you’re right. You didn’t outright say it. But for me personally, that’s how it cam across. If that wasn’t your intention, then I apologise.

I will admit it’s starting to get to the point where I think my frustration to things that have been said in this thread might start to affect how I respond to this argument should it continue.

So if it’s ok with you, how about we just agree to disagree on this particular subject and move on?

You got no one to blame but yourself, mate. You didn't put a cap on this issue, and it shows no signs of slowing down either. Especially not with CWs in the mix. I'm not saying that that is the obvious problem, but I imagine it's part of the overall picture since the wardrobe is a constant headache for y'all. Dunno how you can fix that, but keep at it. In the meantime, I'd say cut down on the wearables. I'd rather see new content in other meaningful ways than more freaking clothes, or even items for that matter.

But I agree on not doing open source that anyone can jump into and do coding. It just invites sabotage and trolls.

Totally fine. And I'm sorry. I know it's been frustrating, between the site and this convo. I hope you know that I'm not mad - I can come across as terse over text, but I'm chill over here. (That's why I end up editing my posts for tone so much. RIP.)

Oh, that's a good point. I'd honestly love to see more focus on revamps, no matter the age of the item, than new items, if that'll slow down the issue.

Thank you. I’m glad this didn’t end badly.

What do you think the cash shop goes towards?

Running something that brings us personal joy, and puts something good and useful into the world. [/quote]

And yet people don't buy out of the cash shop because the site has issues, so that in itself is a cycle.

It brings you personal joy to continue to disappoint your users? To continue to have threads like this pop up, people leaving because they're sick of the lag? Is that really 'useful'?

It could easily be around for that long, but not unless the site issues are addressed and fixed. Ten years ago we had thousands of active users, not hundreds. In another ten if this keeps up it'll be under a hundred and then the site truly will not be sustainable at all.

You got no one to blame but yourself, mate. You didn't put a cap on this issue, and it shows no signs of slowing down either. Especially not with CWs in the mix. I'm not saying that that is the obvious problem, but I imagine it's part of the overall picture since the wardrobe is a constant headache for y'all. Dunno how you can fix that, but keep at it. In the meantime, I'd say cut down on the wearables. I'd rather see new content in other meaningful ways than more freaking clothes, or even items for that matter.

Also this, looks like Metroid beat me to that particular point.

I do not mean to sound disrespectful, so I apologize if I do. But I do not want to see this site spiral down into a slow, painful death while we all sit here and do nothing. There have been plenty of amazing suggestions on how to improve that, and I'd love to see them implemented.

Starting events when there's an unidentified lag problem does not help. Kissing up to users by giving them stuff to apologize because you can't get a handle on things does not help. More clear communication about things as soon as they are discovered will help. More clear communications on staff plans will help.

A good example of this was the downtime the other day. We got warning it was coming, and could keep up through twitter if we chose. But when it was done? No announcement about what had happened, why it took longer than expected, and what did and did not get done.

Perhaps to the staff this does not seem helpful, but to those of us in the dark it is very useful indeed. It gives us a sense of security that problems have been identified and are being worked on, and I think that's a huge central point of this thread as a whole.

I find it difficult on behalf of quite a few of my friends who have health issues or busy lives, they dont have the energy or time to spend waiting,I think also there are a lot of users with health issues who struggle when they have to just sit waiting for stuff to happen.
As for people getting fed up, most dont say anything, they just slowly stop logging in.
I'm off to find out what 'memory leak' means, I think I've got that myself!
I'm sure a cap on the wardrobe would be acceptable? Surely no-one needs over 20k clothing?