A good question. One of my pets was Born: October 20th, 2004 and Adopted: October 20th 2004, Even though he's my battle pet he's still only Tier 9. I expect there are a lot of pets who were created years later who are higher tiers than he is. He's also a Director of SAI but he hasn't made the High Score Table for Job Agency pets.

In the old days inactive accounts were completely cleared - this included the pets. It's likely that some pets with very low ID numbers were deleted. Were the ID numbers re-used?

PS: There's something a bit odd about my battle pet's profile. I joined Subeta on November 10th, 2004 which was when my pet Gwyn_Ap_Nudd was created. Drusilla was created on December 27th, 2004 and I adopted my battle pet after that. None of my other adopted pets have the same born and adopted dates.

Does it matter, though? It is still something to strive for just as names are. I see people wooing about IDs all the time in forums and I know several that collect them and really enjoy it. There are also people who care more about IDs than they do names. I think each aspect of the site means different things for others.

I would honestly be surprised if people collect names for any type of status. If there are, they are most likely few and far between. I always forget how to view IDs actually hah but isn't it kind of a pain? Not as easy as just viewing a name. That would change if names were no longer unique. I would not disagree with this idea if the site started up this way with non-unique names. Without people spending tons of money on these pets thinking they remain this way and then have it changed way late in the game. I am one of those users who put a lot of money and effort into it and that is why I disagree with this suggestion. It makes me feel like all of the money invested into the site to get my pets where I want them would be for nothing when I could have spent that money on other parts of the site.

A part of having characters is also being creative with the names. RNs are not the only options. Some may prefer them but there are unlimited amounts of RWs available for the taking as well.

On a side note, a friend suggested (adding to Bean's idea) to maybe have icons or something that is hoverable showing the difference if the nicknames became implemented which I thought was a really neat idea so I wanted to add this. Could be similar to the custom pet icons in a way?

Additionally, there is no value in any of this as it cannot be sold by any means. There is no privilege, only luck. In the end, not everyone will be happy either way but I do think Bean's suggestion was the best of both worlds.

I think I was the first one who mentioned the pound. And I ONLY mentioned it because we were discussing potential revenue that could be brought by non-unique names. Some users assume it would be a big $ grabber for the site, but I assumed otherwise. Conservatively speaking, let's say 1000 users abandon only 5 averagely named pets (no stat, no low ID) into the pound and creating 5 new pets instead. That's 5000 more pets existing on the site, putting strains on the server, without anyone purchasing pet slots or renaming.

============================== Below is not directed at the quote, and just some general replies to the posts on the entire thread.

A lot of people are talking about name availability and I didn't mention them previously on another post: Funny that somebody mentioned Sherlock Holmes as an example of how popular this character is. I adopted Sherlock from an inactive account this year, and it was not during the clearing (it was hours after the clearing, so even if it cleared early, I'd expect somebody finding out about it much sooner than me. I honestly didn't know when it cleared because I was just randomly looking it up). Sherlock was just sitting there and nobody went for it. I don't know about you guys, but I obtained many good names in the past two years, through adoption, pound, clearing, and picking up names that nobody wants after the clearings. And yes, I've lost a ton of names, and it was painful. But just because we are denied certain names, it doesn't mean we can't find good enough ones. Hell, I would sell my soul for certain names that I know I will never get, but at the same time I don't want to deny the joy of their rightful owners for having those names.

I've also actually pounded quite some pets with good enough names to the pound (not enough slots! ouch!), and I actually looked up where the pet ended up as I assume newer uses would have more chance adopting these pets from the pound than from the adoption forum. Guess what, I'd say a huge chunk of them ended up with the good old pet people. Some pets were initially picked up by newer users, but after a few days, they were on an old users account again. Unless all those new users are your moms/bfs/wives/besties, I'd say the new users just pounded those good enough names back to the pound.

Besides, since when do we care about new users that much? If we really care about them, we should be more open and encouraging to help them work on their pets without being judgemental. How many of us would actually adopt pets to new users? How many of us would actually post on the pet forum when new users are asking for advice? Don’t you feel that it alienates them more than naming issues?

Lastly, the reasoning behind the non-unique name system makes it feel like that the entire weight of new user retention or even the success of the pet community falls on the availability of pet names. It’s unhealthy for the site, if that’s true. And it is unhealthy within the community because it makes a group of users the target of unwanted attentions.

My 2 pennies on this, cause it is an interesting idea, and I see both sides (though ultimately I'm in support of non-unique names since IDs are naturally a thing, so the name shouldn't matter):

I'm a very lucky, happy person to have the names I have. Some like Maxx were unexpected, and I will always cherish Elfric's name. Talia was the one I was vying for the longest and finally have it after all these years. At least 3 years or so. I tried other names, but nothing would satisfy my desire for that name. It just fit the character to a tee.

I stay committed to tracking that name month by month, and even when it was adopted out to someone else, I still watched that name for any chance that I might be able to have it myself.

Sounds stalkerish right? Because it is. And I'm partially ashamed that that was what I had to do just so I could have it over anyone else. And I bet you money, there is someone here on this site that wants that name as much as i did for years, and I have to tell them that they will never get it because I know I will never let the name go. So now they have to move on and try something else.

Was it hard work for me to get the name I coveted for so long? Yes. But is that fair or morale in the long run? No. (will edit later, gotta run)

If pets just existing was a massive server strain, I don't think we'd be allowed to own up to 90 of them.

But yeah, name clearing are a lot more server strain than a massive number of pets in the pound. Active refreshing is more stressing than data that already exists.

So, if we're so worried about server strain, we should strive to eliminate what causes the most harm out of both options, which is the site nearly dying every day, shouldn't we?

Considering you can put spaces in pet names like a last name or title I really don't see why people "have" to have the same exact name. The most I can say to that is "suck it up buttercup" honestly - a lot of people have spent a lot of time and money into getting their pet names, be it getting a name change or waiting who knows how long for a name to be cleared, and I'd be absolutely livid if subeta decided to spit into my face about that.

None of the "benefits" of having an original name would make me happy or even look appealing, I'd honestly just be more pissed off.

If they wanted to implement a "nickname" system where it'll so the nickname italicized on the profile and that's what the user sees when they use their pet on the site, like feeding it, I would think that would be fine but that's just a new feature.

If pets just existing was a massive server strain, I don't think we'd be allowed to own up to 90 of them.

But yeah, name clearing are a lot more server strain than a massive number of pets in the pound. Active refreshing is more stressing than data that already exists.

So, if we're so worried about server strain, we should strive to eliminate what causes the most harm out of both options, which is the site nearly dying every day, shouldn't we?

Sorry that I've never been in the inner circle of understanding how the site runs. I was always told that the csc sales of pet slots help to combat the server strain of having more pets on site. If that's not an issue, still, the site is not going to make as much $ as they expect, when the argument supporting the non-unique idea is revenue.

To my experience, the site only died once last week during the clearing. I do agree it was a pain in the ass and an issue needs to be resolved. I am no programmer, but is there a way to deal with this on the technical side first? Killing an entire long-term feature, sacrificing a huge chuck of users, just to fix a 20 minutes lag issue seem a bit extreme.

[edit]forum point, lucky post!

I support non-unique pet names. I hate how it's a chore to get good names for your pets on here. It would make it a lot easier to name your pets what you want. Subeta not having this feature is just really outdated and inconvenient. No one actually loses anything by having a pet that shares a name with someone else's pet.

Nobody is getting sacrificed, as no one is losing anything! Clearings weren't always daily, and I'm starting to think that they SHOULDN'T be daily if they're hurting the site that much.

Most petsites are going to go down once or twice a year, and it's not satisfactory that the site "only" went down once last week. That's not a thing that should be happening on a 15-year old site, period.

The current system isn't working anymore. The site shouldn't go down, or nearly go down because people want pet names. We need alternatives to stop killing the site with mass-refreshing

What causes strain on servers is activity - everything that goes in the logs, everything that demands a lot of database research (so things like account search and account worth - these are heavy on the database) and yes everything that causes a lot of page loads, so mass-refreshing for clearings isn't good on the servers

Having lots of pets in the pound is a bad thing when people are searching the pound, because it gotta check every pet in the pound, but aside from that? This isn't a big deal! Pound surfing can be a strain, but so is vending.

But, getting rid of potential stress for the servers isn't a bad idea, logistically speaking.

A single pet slot use to be $60 and you could only use any past five (or ten with the GA's added five too) if you had a gold account.. Otherwise you only had five "usable" slots and moving pets was horrendous because even if you bought those extra slots, you couldn't fill them without a GA. I remember vaguely this was a thing but I know the slots used to be outrageously priced.

Angelic potions were also $20 a pop!

Boy, I sure bet the users who bought those were pissed because of all that wasted money. Guess those buttercups sucked it up, though!

[edit] I believe slot cap back then was 20. So $600 for 10 slots on top of however many gold accounts bought by the users who wanted to use their paid for slots.

(thank you for correcting me!)

i'm a supporter of non-unique names, honestly. one of my hands down favorite features about sites like flightrising is that i can name my pets, my dragons, my creatures, whatever i want, without having to sacrifice how i spell or misspell that name. a big reason i've stopped amassing pets on here is that i have all of the names i want that i can reasonably get. the rest are all on accounts that are either active, or juuuust active enough to ensure i would never get that name. and even IF the name goes inactive? i'm going to lose it to someone who either lives in a more suitable time zone or who otherwise has the ability to make time to get that name, which my work schedule doesn't allow. i'd love to make more pets, sure, but the process of finding names that work for me and are actually available just isn't worth it. so now i have 5 pet slots i'm never going to fill, which is a damn shame.

and honestly, people don't lose anything from having names not be unique. i'd still have my pet antonio, even if five other people also had their respective antonios. i'd actually feel better about that, because god knows i'm doing nothing with the name, as far as expressing his character. i'd feel so much better about me "wasting" the names i like if other people also got to enjoy using those names in ways they find more appropriate.

unique names are a relic of the petsite dark ages when people hadn't figured out how to code pets and user accounts based on ID over name. subeta already has the entire network based on IDs already, so it's not even a neopets situation where a massive overhaul would need to take place.

as it is, i have a hard time seeing 'keep names unique' as anything more than a push to retain status over other users. like fuck you if you wanted this name i have, i guess? maybe that feels good to some people? but honestly, there's other things people will get to be elitist and exclusive over. get mean about collecting pets born before 2010 or some other arbitrary mark of status, and i can enjoy naming my pets their best, most appropriate names. it'd work out for all of us.

original price was 60$ for one, 100$ for two!

But anyway, while I was cleaning my floor, I actually thought about something that could work to showcase that your pet had a name for a long time.

Just add "Name Given" to the pet profile page, and give a (Legacy) tag matching the creation date if staff can't find history of name changes.

This way, pets that had the name for a long time are still going to feel special - you'll have a Pet Name Given date from BEFORE the change was done, and this wouldn't affect pet profiles too much - it's one extra block.

So, you're gonna have

Pet Born : Date Pet Name Given : Date Pet Adopted : Date

Aha! Thank you for correcting me! I knew my number seemed off since the Donadak was $100 but I didn't know where to find that info. Editing the post now~

I bought a couple Montre plushies in the past, and they went down in price a bunch of times

Each time, we were okay with it because hey, it's an early adopter privilege, plus we got two free slots at the first price decrease! :D

Yeah Subeta's given compensation for bigger cash-related changes in the past, idk why this would be any different. x: Lose out on money yes but staff typically try to make up for it too. Like free renaming would be just that in this case.

I'm about to clock in for work so I can't say much, but I will admit that the opponents of non-unique names mostly seem to be the people that already have desirable names; I imagine that newer players who stalk accounts that log on once a year to keep their pet names would have different opinions. (or brought up an EXCELLENT point about time zones - some people just aren't capable of being online at the time of clearing due to work, school, or time zone issues. Are we going to tell those people to just suck it up, too? Because that doesn't seem fair. I know most Subeta players are North American, but still.)

I'd be okay with the nickname thing, put it under or next to the name. What worries me is that if this happens loyal pet people might leave with cash and new people might just come and go as they have done before anyways. Non-unique pet names are not the only reason new users do not stay..

Id be fine with the compromise mentioned earlier for naming convention purposes, where you can have alias for each pet. Fully removing unique names seems to get unnecessarily messy and bound to upset players no matter the convention you try to use.

For me the naming convention here prevented me from just porting in characters I already made for something and in turn that made me make a new set of characters and a universe for them to exist in and theyve stood the test of time. All those other pet sites don't hold my attention like subeta does. I return for the characters I've built up here. And a lot of them I didnt make, I adopted and there is a certain amount of pride in hunting down a pet name I like that I click with that chance brought me to. Im still in awe that I snagged Violet who knows how many years ago and he remains largely unchanged from when I first adopted him.

Id be fine with alias but I feel like the site would lose something it has to completely remove the unique naming conventions.

I think for me... On subeta making a new pet is a challenge. I have to find or think of a name that clicks (and see if its available) and build from there. It makes me put more thought into the character and other sites that dont follow that, I dont remember any of those pets even if the species or color was hard to acquire they were more like a trophy than an actual thought out character.

I feel like alias are best of both. I can still have my name hunt and people that dont want that can just nickname their pet what they really want.

okay, so i'm gonna.... try to articulate my thoughts, which are pretty 50/50, on this.

i've been playing for over 12 years. i've experienced the mass clearings that happened twice a year for years, and ngl, i've cried frustrated tears over missing a handful of names. it can really suck. but i've also felt joy and pride for the names that i have managed to get, the same ones that i've had going on ten years or longer. it's a double-sided, completely maddening coin in that i hate how anxiety-inducing obtaining names can be, not to mention the elitism behind snatching "good" ones, but i also enjoy the thrill of the hunt.

nowadays when i can't obtain the name i want, i compromise. and while that, understandably, may be discouraging to some folks (it can be for me as well), i try to find the fun in it. more than once i've ended up coming up with an entirely new character whose name or something in reflection of it could be made on here. basically, one way or another, i'm still able to work with the name options we've got available to us in this age of subeta.

so, if the feature of unique names were completely removed, i'd feel that my years of dedication to name-searching, adjusting my schedule to be here for clearings (during the old system and the new) would be... not entirely wasted, because i wouldn't just stop enjoying what i've made for my pets outside of their names, but... i would be very disheartened for a while. i'd likely take an indefinite hiatus.

that being said, however, i would also feel a sense of relief over not having to fight anymore. because i've been doing this for a freakin' decade, being able to have whatever name i should so choose sounds pretty damn good. i understand the exasperation over there only being one name for one pet in all of subeta creation. at times it does feel unfair, nonsensical, and as others have said, archaic. and being rid of that could benefit new and old users alike.

overall, i think 's suggestion in implementing some sort of nickname system sounds like the best compromise.

Or, what if we actually make it an opt-in feature? Honestly, I don't mind if people want to copy my names (LOL WHY WOULD YOU EVEN DO THAT THOUGH)

If you want to go share your pet names with people, make it an option. Some kind of a greenlight feature, that is account-wide.

If you don't want to share them(redlight), fine, but you also won't be allowed to have duplicate pets names, even if the original owner greenlighted them. This would be done to encourage people to greenlight their account.

Redlight would be the default option - you would HAVE to manually Greenlight your account to allow duplicate of your pet names - but once you Greenlight, you can NEVER EVER EVER GO BACK to Redlight

Finally, if you lose enjoyment because your pet names aren't unique anymore, I'm not sure what to tell you, aside from...maybe you should consider that, at the time where you decided to go for that name, the money and time investment was worth it to you and it doesn't stop being worth it because someone else can have the name Bob.

Your pet is more than a name, after all.