Daily Support Goal!

August 12, 2014 1:39 pm

Hi there! We wanted to take a few minutes to explain the Daily Support Goal progress bar that weâ€™ve added to the News Page today. We gotten a lot of user feedback recently, and one thing people have asked for consistently is more transparency from us in terms of what we need to keep Subeta growing.

Subeta is about 95% user-supported (the other 5% comes from advertising), which means that by supporting us through purchases Cash Shop Credits and Cash Shop items, you are directly contributing to Subetaâ€™s longevity and success. Since youâ€™re so important, we wanted to give you a small way to check in with us each day to see how weâ€™re doing towards our goals. Following the lead of Reddit, one of the largest websites on the planet, weâ€™ve add a Daily Support Goal progress bar that shows you just how close (or far) we are to where we need to be each day to maintain Subeta and continue to grow. The site operates on a daily budget, so we wanted the bar to track the same way that we track on the back end â€“ you can see real progress in real time, every day.

To quell any concerns, this does NOT mean that if we donâ€™t hit our goal every day, that the site will go down, or that any of your hard work is in any sort of peril. Itâ€™s simply a marker for us of how successful we are at keeping up with the demands of running a website the size of Subeta, and itâ€™s a way for you to keep track of how your contributions are helping us every day.

We also understand and appreciate that not everyone has the means or the ability to support us with their money. You can still make a huge difference by bringing new users to the site, showing them the ropes, and getting them to stick around â€“ thatâ€™s JUST as important to us as the financial support we receive.

Weâ€™re going to continue to work hard to make Subeta the best we can, and we canâ€™t thank you enough for your time and your loyalty. Thank you for playing!

August 15, 2014, 4:30 pm by

The only comment I have to make is, can it not reset to 0 once it reaches 100%? Or well if the bar resets, maybe the percentage not reset? I'm curious to see when they reach their goal how much of their goal they make, whether it's 110% or 200%, etc..

August 14, 2014, 8:30 pm by

thanks for adding the percentage :)

August 13, 2014, 3:44 pm by

I've got an idea. Let's NOT recode a magic bar on the news. Let's take the time that it would take to do that and say... put it towards fixing the wardrobe. The pixels that have already been purchased (a lot, with REAL money) yet can't be used. Some of them don't show up in the new wardrobe and can't be worn. Nothing in the new wardrobe seems to be able to be taken out and therefore can't be used elsewhere either. I have no expectations that this site won't be closed in a month. We don't get to as the customers. The amount of websites that have been closing lately, literally right after having big events and sales to get what they can before they depart, proves that. However, until that point does happen, I'd like to be able to actually use what I've already bought.

August 13, 2014, 9:28 am by

While this is true, you are a private business and not required. It would be nice to see a daily, weekly or monthly goal with numbers to see how much you need for the site. Where your profits go above what is NEEDED, I do not care and hope you spend it wisely. We are purchasing goods we will never get back should you go down.

Seeing just how far we off from how much you need would actually encourage me to give you as much as I responsibly can for my life. I am sure it would encourage others as well. If you are having troubles, we will try to make sure you can keep going forever ^^

August 13, 2014, 9:16 am by

Everyone who's saying "How they spend the money is none of our business" are correct - technically.

But when a business asks for money, especially a local, privately owned business (which is akin to how Subeta likes to present itself online), think of how they approach the issues. We all know when we go in our favorite neighborhood burger stand, we don't ask them where the money's going. But if suddenly "Joe and Sal's" diner is falling on hard times, if you're a regular patron, chances are you're gonna hear about it and what the issues are, and while they might not directly ask for money, the silent plea has an obvious call to action that's tangible - not some floating arbitrary goal bar.

I don't know if any of you grew up in a small town, but those who did know how it goes. Even without "knowing" you know what they need and what needs to be done. You'll overhear Joe having a conversation about how the lease was raised $2,000 and they're barely scraping by as it is. You'll order a burger and an offhand comment from the kindly waitress you've known for years lets you know that the place might not be around much longer. The community bands together to help their business and the business is open about what they need to make it through. And that's the part we're missing - the business is OPEN. They've accepted the bleeding heart, they know they're sinking, and they know they have a community behind them that wants to stop the bleeding because now, that diner is part of their lives, a part they'd miss.

Time and time again it's been said that Subeta isn't dying, yet time and time again, we hear those off hand "We're getting by, but barely". Tell us how we can help, rather than hiding it from us. No, you're not obligated to, you're a private business. But almost every private business with a caring community that fell on hard times and spoke out, OPENLY AND HONESTLY about what the problems are and how their community can help, rather than simply saying "well, we need money" - well, most of the ones that I've seen with a community half the size of Subeta managed to make it through.

Just saying. Don't take your users for granted. If they're asking for some semblance of figures, chances are its because they want to know what you really need, rather than berate your choices (which may be your fear and what's holding you bacK??)

August 13, 2014, 9:08 am by

:: You came up with a fantastic idea! Herro there, Lofty!

The numbers of what it takes to run the site daily, weekly or monthly and the amount of money coming in daily, weekly or monthly would be enough to satisfy me. I have seen enough evidence to trust you with giving honest answers and respect you greatly for this. Even a rough estimate, improved by each passing month's average, would do just fine!

August 13, 2014, 9:05 am by

:: You make a very good point!

While on the one hand, I have yet to spend any money on this site but I have a job now. This site brings a ton of pleasure, comfort and escape from my day to day life and troubles. It is priceless to me in that is gives me the freedom to express myself and to write with others (or roleplay). I appreciate that greatly. So much, that should I come across some extra money in the near future, I would be willing to spend money on it to see it continue and gain some special awesome things!!

But, it would be better to see bars for WHERE the money is going, this is not because I don't trust you, it is because there IS a lack of physical item in these purchases, and when they are gone, they are gone. Just like the site. But you guys will still have and have benefits from the money you have made off of us. As the honest business you have repeatedly shown, having something like that in the Cash Shop that everyone can see would be great. We want to make sure you guys can afford to run the site. That you guys make enough yourselves to live your lives happily. But we also are used to the typical business that isn't so morally fantastic.

While I have GREAT respect for this action being taken at all and thank you!

August 13, 2014, 8:53 am by

And by intangible, I meant are not tangible. Kinda negated myself there.

August 13, 2014, 8:51 am by

I'm gonna agree with Mike. How the money is spent is none of our business (because hey, it's literally not our business!)

We all know for a fact Subeta won't be around forever. You know what you're getting when you purchase csc with $$. You know that none of these goods or services are intangible and can one day disappear. It's a matter of time before this place eventually disappears like many other once-popular websites. It's your choice to decide whether your money is worth the time, fun, site improvements, or whatever it is you get out of Subeta to keep it going for as long as it can.

I don't know where people get the idea that the money isn't going towards Subeta. It's like guilty until proven innocent. You automatically believe things go elsewhere unless you prove otherwise. What a poor attitude.

I trust Keith with his decisions. I don't expect him to run things perfectly. I imagine there are things I probably would have done differently but who knows? I didn't start the business nor do I run it. I just support it knowing that one day it'll be all gone (and worth it, to me).

August 13, 2014, 2:49 am by

I honestly don't understand why they can't go and ask for money on a fundraiser site as well. It would get in more people and possibly more money. There are no downsides.

August 13, 2014, 12:37 am by

That being said, its a business and you have to think that the money you're giving to the business is going towards the business because the business wants more money in the future... There's not really many businesses that think otherwise... While perhaps it would be NICE to know it really isn't any of our business and if you don't feel comfortable with that you really shouldn't spend money on it. Besides, when a site starts going under it usually is fairly obvious even if the use rbase doesn't want to believe it, they know it. The site starts to deteriorate gets less updates etc etc

August 13, 2014, 12:21 am by

I honestly think more ads can help the site..

August 12, 2014, 10:27 pm by

Mike, the problem here is... When you buy something irl, you have a physical product that isn't just going to disappear if the business you bought it from goes under. But Subeta doesn't sell physical goods, it sells pixils. The day this site goes under, everyone who ever bought anything from Subeta will lose all of it. So it would be nice to know the money being spent on Subeta is actually going towards Subeta.

Obviously we don't need to know how much Keith spent on his breakfast yesterday or anything, but it would at least be nice to see what percentage of the money coming in went towards paying staff, paypal/stripe/etc. fees, server maintenance, etc. or something. It'd be a lot more re-assuring than some vague, daily bar on the news page.

August 12, 2014, 8:22 pm by

IMHO, subeta is a private business and its none of our damn business how it spends its income, so long as its not being embezzled or summat. If you're not comfortable buying a virtual good because you're not sure how the company you buy from is using the money, you probably shouldn't be spending real money on virtual goods... However, when you need to consider that when you buy a real good you don't know exactly where that money is going either. In both cases you can have a general idea that enough of a portion of the money is going into improving and maintaining the business because its a business and it wants to continue to be a business... That's what business' do... Obviously some of the money is going to the owner of the business because they earn money for running the business the same as the employees earn money for contributing work effort to the business... That the business is a website changes nothing really. I think the progress bar is a good idea because it might make more people buy more CSC, but if it doesn't do that i wouldn't continue with it because there's just no point other than earning more money to keep the site running and improving. That's my 2 (or 3) cents.

August 12, 2014, 7:47 pm by

I agree with the monthly goal (I actually thought it was going to be a monthly one when I first saw the bar!) and I think the poll idea is interesting as well, although I suspect most people would just tick the "fix the code/bugs/general coding needs" box if there was one, haha.

August 12, 2014, 7:30 pm by

I agree with .. maybe a weekly goal instead of a daily one?

August 12, 2014, 7:05 pm by

Re: my previous post

There are obvious downsides on bigger businesses. When you don't know where your money is going to, you can only imagine it's going towards improving the site and specifically stuff you really love about it. When the 5 next upcoming features or revamps are stuff you don't give two jacks about like "revamping the art of the light bulbs" and "program a new widget that wiggles when you click it" you are a lot less likely to be willing to give money. So maybe instead of actual progress bars twoards said goals, you could have a poll everytime you buy CSC and people would vote for what they'd like the money to go to. There would be no guarantee, but the results would be public and everyone would have a better understanding of the people's needs.

August 12, 2014, 6:51 pm by

I do think actual figures should be kept for yourself though. Nothing good comes out of publishing how much you're making or losing, people will complain for both anyway.

What would be nice but seems complicated for bigger businesses (which is a size Subeta may or may not have reached already) would be to have X (let's say 5) different kind of bars, each for a different upcoming feature or part of the site that needs to be revamped, something like this :

Wardrobe - 3D Battle Colliseum - fix speed Subetapedia - add 50 articles Stocks - make it good Games - add 3 games

and that when you contribute money, you get to chose which bar you want to fill. Money would go to the things people want them to go and you would have a better understanding of what these things are. Bars wouodn't have to be so specific aka if you're working on something sekrit. I do understand that site priorities and users wants are not always compatible, but these would be goals you set yourself, and if none of the goals are popular categories like wardrobe/colliseum, peple would still have to contribute to something.

Stuff like overhead and servers costs would have to be diluted in there already.

August 12, 2014, 6:50 pm by

Gotta admit, I'd love to see numbers too. I looked at the bar, made a decent sized purchase of csc, and looked at the bar again, and it doesn't seem like it changed. Maybe the change was small enough that I couldn't see it, but I'd feel like I helped more with a visible number amount. Also thinking a monthly bar would be better overall, but I don't personally care about the time framing of it much either way.

August 12, 2014, 6:40 pm by

This thing would make a lot more sense if it was done on a monthly basis or any larger scale at all

Operating the site on a daily budget doesn't let you see the bigger picture, and there are obvious periods of the week/month or depending on events that get more revenue than flat boring days. If this Daily Progress bar was only full 10 days out of 30, you could still be making enough for the monthly budget because of these "big days" and the fact that when the bar turns green but people keep buying, we have no track of that. Unless the daily budget is not the same every day (which would make tons of sense, I just figured you wouldn't do it this way).

August 12, 2014, 6:39 pm by

I would much rather see numbers. Instead, we have a vague bar to show us a vague goal. Cool. Joy. Would rather the time have been spent coding something that was broken in the first place.

August 12, 2014, 6:38 pm by

I just want to add.. I work for a private company and one of things I do is keep track of materials/monies. One of the things I know is that what you go over one day you can roll over into the next day. (unless you work in retail with sales plans but even those are just to keep the overall quarterly goals on track..) When you are short one day, often you make up for it on another day. I second those who are saying a monthly bar would be better if you decide to keep it. Lets say the bar goes way over today, and we are short tomorrow, it might look bad to those who are viewing it but in reality everything has evened out and is just fine. I think a day to day tracker just doesn't put enough perspective on the goals as a whole. (I still want one for site progress though too :) )

August 12, 2014, 6:36 pm by

I get the idea for it but idk.... makes me sort of uncomfortable. :/ Feels very much like pressuring, we'll see it every day. Saying like "we're so far from this, but you're not helping us" I know you said in the post that you don't feel that way at all, but it still comes across like that, I guess.

August 12, 2014, 6:34 pm by

Thanks for moving it from the dashboard, but this is not transparency. Numbers would be transparency. This looks more like money grubbing and makes me want to buy CSC less than I have for the past 2 years (which is not at all).

Nice first step, but tweaking is necessary. This makes it look like Subeta will close at any moment.... Making it look like you want to scare your users into buying. :

August 12, 2014, 6:31 pm by

I guess I don't really care for this.. It's a bar that shows how much people are spending on your site every day and how much you want them to spend. But it doesn't say what the goal is or where exactly it's at and there's no frame of reference, such as what is the average, how much does it fluctuate, what is the overall monthly or yearly goal, the breakdown of where the money is being spent, a breakdown of what it's used for, ect. So I don't really see what the point is other then knowing people are buying csc which I already knew anyways. I follow some animal charities on fb and they often post thermometer type goals much like the one you have here. Except theirs are going towards saving animals, getting them out of bad situations, surgeries, and what not. I don't spend my money here because you all need it, I spend it cos I like the art. :) When I give my money to an organization that really needs it, it's a charity. To me this is less like Reddit's thing and more like if Steam suddenly started doing it. I expect them to continue offering games whether or not I spend money and whether or not I do, I know that other users will, but I don't need to see how much they spend every day. I would rather have a bar that shows the progress being made on the work to the site. :)

August 12, 2014, 6:30 pm by

I appreciate this being moved to the news page, but I agree that without numbers this is not transparency and rather looks like more money grabbing tactics. Tbh it makes m

August 12, 2014, 5:47 pm by

Having a bar on the front page that says 'we need this much money to keep running' is rather uncomfortable, and feels downright ominous when it's mostly empty.

Is this what people were asking for? I thought people wanted to donate directly to a fund for improving the coding as there's been problems with site stability, rather than just buying CSC where the money gets spread around.

August 12, 2014, 4:40 pm by

I think that the bar, its a nice first step, but I too would like to see some number to put into context the bar.

August 12, 2014, 4:30 pm by

It's a step in the right direction, but I don't think it's terribly helpful as far as transparency goes. Being daily and not showing numbers doesn't say much. It just seems like another money grab to me. Not that that's a terrible thing, like you said, artists need to be paid, but there have been so many Gaia-esque money grabby things lately that I have to agree with Ambition that it makes it sound like this place doesn't have much time left. Not if it's that desperate for money.

Personally, I'd be more interested in knowing where the money is GOING than how much more is needed in a day, considering some of the things I've heard elsewhere.

August 12, 2014, 4:27 pm by

To jump in, if you're not comfortable with releasing actual figures, why not put a percentage next to it? That way there would still be a figure for us to know about (e.g. 78%) but yet no direct monetary associations.

August 12, 2014, 4:14 pm by

Nice step in the right direction, but I agree with everyone commenting about needing clarification. Numbers don't lie. Tell me what the bar translates to in dollars and then we have something to work with. Right now it's all on "good faith", which frankly not many people accept as an explanation with subeta (cuzsubeta after all).

August 12, 2014, 3:50 pm by

This isn't really transparent as I can't see how much exactly is needed each day and it's kind of hard to believe you guys don't make a mint each day with how many CW's get approved and people put the 5000csc (50 bones) in to get those approved. Granted, you made it slightly less for smaller items but the items everyone wants still cost the same. This doesn't include CSC bought for cash shop items or commissions for CW's, CI's (both for CW's and just custom items for ones sig,) pet art, pet profiles, graphics for said profiles, hell, sometimes even the damn coding requires real cash to get. :/

August 12, 2014, 3:33 pm by

This is an interesting concept that Subeta is allowing us to see how the site is doing. I too buy CSC so I don't see ads and autopricing is nice (I'm not going to lie, I hate ads). Let's see how this plays out, but I'm glad is is in the news feed and not on my personal dashboard.

August 12, 2014, 3:22 pm by

: No I mean I understand that completely and suppose I didn't word it correctly, but what I mean is that while it's required for Neopets - for you guys despite being privately owned, why not release a little bit of financial information every now and then? Obviously they require depth because they're publicly traded and it's, well, required. But you guys are obviously working here on transparency and honesty with your users, and I just meant from the perspective that even a fraction of that information might be nice for us to see now and again.

Because right now we have a bar, and we have no clue where it's set. Where it's set could change each day for all we know (I know it doesn't because you obviously didn't code it that, I'm using that as an example to make the point). We have no frame of reference to put this bar in other than what it's coded to show us, and while a great step - isn't nearly as transparent or helpful as it could be - because it tells me a rough idea of a goal that I have no true concept of. If that makes sense.

Not trying to argue, I truly do think you guys are taking great steps. Just trying to make a case for what I think some of the users here are asking about :)

August 12, 2014, 3:20 pm by

this site is a billion trillion times better than neopets!!! lol :D

August 12, 2014, 3:17 pm by

I definitely prefer it being on the newsfeed now, so I can check it whenever I log in rather than having a large bar at the side of each page which looked rather out of place!

August 12, 2014, 3:11 pm by

Neopets is owned by a publicly traded company, they're actually required to release that information :). We are a private company and so we aren't required to give out investor numbers (earnings per share, etc) because we aren't making money to give it back to shareholders. We're making money to make a game.

August 12, 2014, 3:07 pm by

I really love this idea. Every bit of transparency helps and having been on Subeta for going on 10 years now (They grow up so fast! ;~; ) the amount of communication and transparency I've seen in the past few months has been amazing, definitely the best I've seen thus far. It's really, really encouraging to see. Kudos to the staff and UAs for all the work they're doing to make it happen!

Also, for what it's worth, I noticed earlier that I switched the Masquerade layout for the site (so pretty :o ) and the bar isn't showing anymore. Is it only attached to the default layout?

August 12, 2014, 3:06 pm by

I really really hope this does not mean you are gearing up to shut the site down within the next year or so - that would stink big time. I know that you said you are not going to close the site - but I just can't shake the sad feeling that it is going to close.

Remembers Valenth :( :(

August 12, 2014, 3:06 pm by

I had no idea there was a cash flow problem with the site. Love this site, hope it keeps running. For me, as much as I am curious about the finances, I have often wondered if I will regret the spending I do on this site if it shuts down. Seeing it fail or start to fail, in all reality, I might halt or slow my spending. I want to support the site, but I also don't want to put money into items on an account that wont be here in the future. Transparency is nice and ignorance is bliss :/ I am not sure if I support the idea of the daily goal bar or not. If a person sees a stock crash why would they invest more? Please don't take this the wrong way... I am ALL about supporting artists, I am one myself. I don't know that I would have even told users if it was my business. We are a tight knit community, I do see us banding together. I also think that advertising around the net (more?) would be a worthy investment.

August 12, 2014, 3:06 pm by

i'd be more into this if i could refer people to a site that actually worked the way it's supposed to, it's embarrassing to bring people to this site only to have them be like WHY DOESN'T THIS FEATURE WORK/WHY DOESN'T THIS FEATURE WORK/WHY IS THE SITE DOWN?

August 12, 2014, 3:00 pm by

This is a step in the right direction, but I agree - it needs transparency. An arbitrary bar ticking to an arbitrary number, while visually indicating something to me, tells me nothing overall. Is the daily goal $300? $3000? How can I know just from that bar? If I can see this from the wide wide world of Neopia, who typically like to pretend that the real world isn't happening: https://www.google.com/finance?fstype=ii&q=NEOP Why can't I see some version of it from Subeta? Where we know the real world is happening all the time (such as evidenced by the beautiful free gift)? :)

You guys are taking great strides for transparency and engagement with your community, and don't ever think that it's not appreciated. But it would be great if the bar were accompanied by some hard numbers and information, so we can see exactly how our contributions are helping Subeta be the best it can be!!!

August 12, 2014, 2:59 pm by

Ok, I may be the only one that feels like this but...this is actually more likely to make me NOT donate. I spend my money here because I WANT to. Not because you want our money, or need our money, but because I want to spend my money on things here. When I spend my money on clothes for my HA instead of for myself it's because this place makes me happy. I don't drink, smoke or do drugs. My vice is this place. But all this does is show me that my money isn't important to you guys as long as everyone is spending it. If it's not important, why bother spending it?

August 12, 2014, 2:55 pm by

I think this is a great idea, and I can't fathom why the SB erupted into drama earlier today after this feature was added. I have seen great pet-sites become defunct due to funding issues (WhuddleWorld, etc.), and I would hate if the one site I've held onto even more so than NP had the same demise. Go Subeta!

August 12, 2014, 2:51 pm by

I like this idea!!! I think a top contributor would be cool too, maybe offer a trophy to go along with it and achievements as it would create a bit of competition^^

August 12, 2014, 2:50 pm by

Both thumbs up to you Keith and Subeta!

August 12, 2014, 2:31 pm by

A daily 'top donator' would maybe be cool to see too?

August 12, 2014, 2:29 pm by

I think this is wonderful. I always kind of assumed that you guys were making lots of money on CSC & GAs, etc. But the progress bar shows me that is not the case every day, and that really helps me be a better user and think "Hey, maybe I will spend $20 this month & get myself some CSC." Thanks, guys. Ya'll rock :)

August 12, 2014, 2:27 pm by

I feel like this works better on reddit because, yes, they are one of the biggest websites on the planet - with way more people buying gold accounts every day. A weekly or monthly goal would make more sense.

Also, I really agree about needing transparency here. I would like to know exactly where our money is going.

August 12, 2014, 2:22 pm by

I would think a monthly goal would make much more sense.

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