May 17, 2005 4:28 pm

Everyone

This is getting out of hand. I've been getting about 10 complains about the staff a day, about some of the horribly mean things you've done.

Do not keep yelling at people for 'modding' Its not modding when they say 'dont type in all caps'.

And running around posting on every single board "DO NOT MOD", is just as much 'spamming', as all the other users are doing.

You are filling up the forums with the same message, over and over.

The point of the moderaters are to lock, and delete boards that are violating the rules. It is not to herd the members, or tell them what to do.

With teh recently combined jobs, you have taken on the responsibility of freezing users who break the rules.

Nowhere in the rules do I see 'doing a mods job'.

I know you feel you are the ones in power, and you are. But yelling at the members constantly is going to make you loose that power. You won't have power, if there is no one to govern.

I've already got notes today, of users telling me they aren't going to go on the forums anymore (and two of them cancled their GA subscriptions, saying they woudln't donate to a site with staff who treat users like that).

So, take your pick. You can keep going like this, locking every board a user says 'do not mod' on, or you can lighten up a little bit. I understand if 500 users say it, then warn the 499 who posted it after the first. But otherwise, its not that big of a problem, and there are way more important things you can focus on.

So, its up to you. If you don't like what I've said, please tell me to take you off staff in the comments. We have to many UA's anyways.

Keith & Mogel Log
VileFuge: Can we talk about this
*** Auto-response sent to VileFuge: Sleeping.
VileFuge: your getting 10 reports a day from users
VileFuge: and Im getting just as many from staff
Plagued Eternity: Staff are upset, becuase they are loosing their power.
VileFuge: Not at all its not just that
VileFuge: they are not being listened to
Plagued Eternity: And, the reason behind that is becuase they are focusing their ... focus, on trivial things such a s someone saying 'Dont post in all caps', rather than the actual bad guys.
VileFuge: yeah i can see that too
Plagued Eternity: Thats their own fault, there is nothing I can do, to make staff be listened to.
Plagued Eternity: I tell them.
Plagued Eternity: 'Dont get verbal warnings, freeze them'
Plagued Eternity: Its called setting an example.
Plagued Eternity: But yet, all of them have to be heartful and give people 500 verbal warnings.
Plagued Eternity: And even then, they refuse to give them a real warning.
Plagued Eternity: They've dug themselves into this hole, they can dig thereselves out.
VileFuge: but I dont agree that the users should be moding and creating 10 posts bashing or telling a user what they did is wrong. Thats why we have a reporting system.
Plagued Eternity: I also said on there.
Plagued Eternity: One post is enough.
Plagued Eternity: After that one, then you should just warn those people.
Plagued Eternity: If say, user makes a board called OMG LOOK !
Plagued Eternity: and user2 posts 'Dont type your post in all caps :)'
Plagued Eternity: Then, thats fine
Plagued Eternity: But if user3-10 post the same thing, user 3-10 should get warned.

I dont think the REAL enemies are the ones trying to HELP subeta.

Keith

Reply

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by styn

I usually stick to giving verbal warnings, since I hardly ever spot people mass spamming or breaking the rules. People breaking a minor rule, I tell them not to do it again. I only warn for second offences, or if the person is breaking some big rule, or causing a great commotion.

Zero tolerance policy, here I come.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by defect_827

PS. I LOVE ALL OF YOU! And please spell check! I read this whole thing and the misspelled words made me slow down. xD I CANT TAKE THE WRONG!

If anyone, I must agree with Bobbers here. Mbif also made some interesting points too. If it helps, I can install some new buttons with the rest next to each forum post that say "warn" and "freeze." Are they already there? I dont remember >_<

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by defect_827

GOOD LORD. This turned out worse than the whole "ARTIST WORK OR I FIRE YOU" thing. >_<

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Deleted User

I can't do any freezing or modding... but we do have to keep in mind we are here for the users, not vice versa. They're kids. They mess up. They act stupid. They break rules both on purpose and by accident. Point being, they're here to have fun. They break a rule, they geta warning. If it was by accident they won't do it again. If they do it again they get more warnings until they are frozen. They get warned if they are blatantly breaking a rule, or innapropriate behavior. The 'warnings' are just that- warnings. Use with discretion. Is the user really causing harm to Subeta in some way? We're not tyrants, we don't want to keep them all in a perfect line, we just keep them within the fence. I'm no UA or anything so you can disregard or diagree, just put in my two sP. It's late and I'm tired so I hope it makes sense.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by DebiLee

My (unwanted and unwarranted, actually ) reputation for "sweetness" really has nothing to do with my job; I used to give people items for Item Hunt, I have giveaways and a free shop, I give gifts, I sell GA's and Donation Items for sP, etc. I think it might have started when Evil made that Box of Sugary Goodness for me... But, anyway, I do do my job. I froze someone awhile ago for abusing the DC glitch, I found the huge multiples nest that mbif and I froze, and I recently gave someone in the Shoutbox a very clearly worded Official Warning with no verbal first. So I'm in there, reputation for "sweetness" or not.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Dill

I try to mingle, too, and I go out of my way to help people when they need help. I think, though, that leniency is not the way to make users think more highly of us.

Thank you, Keith. 5 officials it is.

I have a question, though ... do we freeze ON the 5th or in lieu of a 6th? I've always been wondering that (well ... before, it was about the 3rd.)

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Deleted User

I know that I am also one of the accused for being too lovey and sweet. >>
I'm harsh when needed. Otherwise I feel the need to associate with the users in a positive way. Give them hope rather than scorn when the mistake was small..
I'd rather a user turnaround and change, then just to leave and give a major backlash about how cruel everyone is here.
Mbif, you're not the bad guy, the other UAs actually do a lot of their jobs, it's just hard to notice it, as you can't be everywhere at once.

I'll start giving more warnings. Because normally I would mail the users and ask them why before taking action, but they really do need to learn. Before I wasn't sure as to giving them warnings, and users have a terrible whining habit.

I realize why they've turned to that nature though, if they whine, they feel they can get out of the situation by a nicer staff, it's been classically conditioned and is becoming public knowledge I suppose.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Keith

I'll make a news post stating that 5 warnings is a ice now. It makes sense.

But as mbif said, since no one really listens to the staff right now, verbals aren't really worth a thing.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Dill

Well, I was screwing up, too. Too many verbals.

Staffers make mistakes, including myself. I've screwed up a buttload, including being overly lenient, apparently.

I hate drama and politics, and I hate knowing I've love ed up.

Doesn't help that I'm STILL sick. I think I'm going to take a nap or get some soup or SOMETHING. Maybe read.

I still love you guys, I really do. I wouldn't be able to do any of this without you.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Bob_476

I know you're not. You're right. I'm in the wrong. That's why I'm staying out. The perfect indifferent (or idiot, at least counting the number of times I've managed to screw up here) savant, if you will.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Dill

That's a good idea, Glitter.

(And yeah, just a credit, the increased-official-limit idea is Bob's. Not trying to take credit, Bobbers, just agreeing with you. )

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Dill

I was always under the impression that it was three verbals to an official, three officials to a freeze. I keep a notebook to keep track of it, actually.

I think that SOME verbals would be in order, but if we can't stop all the regular users from trying to do that for us, then we can't enforce that. I can't count the times I've come across an older board where I had no idea some abuse had happened, but there were loads of user-mod posts.

Bob, I'm not saying you can't do your job, and I'm not trying to hurt your feelings. I'm just upset because I'm tired of getting contradicting orders from my superiors.

If Keith says we can't crack down on user-modding, then it renders STAFF verbals useless and generally ignored. That leaves us no choice but to stick to officials.

Perhaps increasing the official limit slightly would be in order?

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Tea

I mentioned this to Mogel, I'm not sure if he told Keith. If we are going to officially warn instead of verbally warn the users, wouldn't it be better to have a link to the Copa on the warning event? That way we can be certain they actually ARE AWARE or READ the rules. Just a thought.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Bob_476

I don't agree with some points of this. Ditching verbal warnings enirely is...I won't even find the words to explain it - I'm outnumbered, and probably with good reason, at least according to certain democratic principles. I'd suggest at least upping the max amount to five. But, hey, I'm the lenient babying one, right? Ignore me.

I'll stick with the basics since I can't seem to do anything else right. Add items, add news, delete items, edit items, so on and so forth with other non-user oriented powers.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Dill

Alright. That's basically what I had started out doing, until everyone started jumping me for being mean.

Thanks for the clarification.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Dill

I can't freaking please everyone, and I can't enforce the rules properly AND coddle people. I don't tell people they're ignorant. I DO, however, tell them to re-read the rules.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Mogel

Yes it should have. But these users do need to be warned. I also think we should NOT be doing anything verbal period. No random event nothing. Their warning tells them what they did wrong. they can look up the rules again. and maybe this time they will read them better. Half the users will do this and stay with the site. a few might leave because they dont like our rules. And some will keep breaking the rules. But if they break a rule they need to be disciplined for it. We need to be invisible in that regard. We cant have other users seeing this because its like publicly punishing someone. And we would be shaming them then. This way keeping it strictly offical and equaled out they will either do one of the above.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Keith

This is the last time I'm goign to post here.

Stop focusing on the users modding, unless they are repeating.
Start enforcing the rules. If someone breaks one, its their fault. Give them a warning. Thats why they get 3 warnings. Thats 3 chances to break the rules, and not get frozen for it.
Make Sure when you lock a board, to post why you've locked it.
Make Sure If a user gets a warning, to completly fill out the warning field so they know exactly what they've done.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Dill

Yes, Bob, you are one of the people I'm referring to.

You know I really, truly, honestly like you.

However, I'm tired of having you reprimand me for doing exactly what Mogel and Keith tell me to do.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Bob_476

Ugh. I know I was the one being refered to in Mbif's post. That's the EXACT reason why I never try to get involved in issues like this. I dislike being accused of babying people when ALL I'M TRYING TO DO is to keep them here on the Subeta. We're a user-oriented site. If we scare off all the users for making A FEW SIMPLE MISTAKES, then what's the point? I've seen and spoken to people who have left out of shame because their board was locked by a moderator and they were told in what they assumed to be a disregarding manner that they're too ignorant to read the rules. Not that specifically, of course, but some people jump to conclusions when things like that occur. People feel bad for disobeying something they were unaware of. They may read the rules, but that's not to say they didn't skip over something accidently - nor does it mean that everything will have sunk in.

I'd prefer it if people were to come out and specifically say that I'm doing my job wrong. No need being anonymous here - we're staff, we're supposed to work TOGETHER. If we don't agree on something we need to DISCUSS IT. Get it out in the open. Should have happened a long time ago.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Dill

Okay, fine then. We don't really seem to disagree on the major points, then.

I'm just sick of the politics and lack of balance, I guess. Ugh.

So what do we do if someone's posting in all-caps and like 10 users say, "don't type in all caps?" I know we warn the 9 who just repeated themselves, but what about the caps-typer? Warn? Be nice and give a random event? What?

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Mogel

because keith has to think of the users as well as the staff. I see his point in that. A dead city cant be protected by miltary. We need live people on subeta. We cant destroy them just to keep the system free then what would be the use. But on the same token there will be less public sightings of this so there will be less complaints by NON offenders. Which is what i think keith is talking about.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Keith

Hatemail is no problem. I don't really care if someone says THEY WERE TO MEAN.

If I have to investigate an issue, its fine with me. I don't mind.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Dill

So then why start this news out with a complaint about the complaints? This is one of the things I'm talking about when I talk about mixed signals.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Mogel

Then it happens so be it. Publicly doing this is not helping us at all. We get the mail all the time. Someone always has something to complain about if its about staff doing their jobs so be it. Id rather it be that and our site being safe then them be complaining because they were seeing chaos on the site.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Dill

More freezings + more officials = MORE USER COMPLAINTS about how MEAN AND HORRIBLE we are.

I have no problem getting stricter, but I don't want to hear how mean I am. I'm tired of it. I'm tired of being "the mean one."

And if you want us to stop with all the verbals, you need to be prepared to get more hatemail about us.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Mogel

Yes. There should be no verbals anymore. Warn them and let them know what rule they made. 3 warnings they are frozen. Simple enough. I had said this earlier and was working on a staff forum post for it but here will be just as easy.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Keith

Quote:
; border: 1px solid ; font-size: 10;">But I am REALLY tired of other staffers who won't warn, or freeze, just run around saying, "Oh, that's okay <3333333333333"

Thats what I'm talking about.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Dill

And it's not just the UAs -- let me get this straight. I'm not trying to create drama here.

But I am REALLY tired of other staffers who won't warn, or freeze, just run around saying, "Oh, that's okay <3333333333333"

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Dill

If you don't mind me giving out more official warnings and doing more freezings, then fine, I'll do it this way.

But keep the other love ing staffers off my back.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Dill

Interesting, because I hear a lot of complaints in private. Nobody likes to stand up to bullies.

If I could be given a clear answer as to how to do my love ing job, it would be easier. I get two staffers telling me I'm too lenient, then I'm told by another that I'm too harsh. What the love ? We need CONSISTENCY to do our jobs well.

I'm love ing tired of other UAs running around being saccharine-sweet and leaving me to do all of the dirty work. I get a horrible reputation while they're revered as gods because they let other users get away with everything.

It love ing sucks, and you should know it.

The work load is NOT balanced.

If you don't want me to discipline people for INTERFERING WITH MY JOB, then whatever. But don't be surprised that things are going to get a lot nastier, and more freezings will probably happen as a result.

I'm love ing tired of having to give verbal warnings, and I'm tired of all the politics.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Keith

(Unless you'd like me to turn your heart to ice )

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Keith

I mean, I love all of you to death, I really do.

I just don't see anything that anyone but you can do it this situtation. People don't listen to you, becuase you dont seem like an authority figure. And its not becuase of other users modding. Its becuase some of you refuse to warn users, even when theyv'e done something wrong.

Thats nothing that I can fix.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Keith

Interesting, you are the only one complanining, mbif. I love you to death,but you have to relize.

Maybe you should re-read my post again. I said WARN THEM.. Its called setting an example.

But, if someone says 'dont post in all caps', thats not doing anything wrong. If 10 people say it after that person, they should be warned for spamming.

Its simple.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Tea

Christine made a post in the news about users not "modding" or something to that extent ^^; I was pretty confused...

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Dill

We have 4 UAs. How is that too many? And if you don't like us doing our jobs, whatever. Let the site fall to a bunch of love headed kids. Seriously. I can't believe you have so little respect for those of us doing our jobs.

I'm going to have to think on this.

Of COURSE users will complain about the staff enforcing the rules. Kids don't like to be punished, but it HAS to get done.

If we came to you with every little user complaint, it would FAR outweigh what those whiners are sending to you.

So yeah. These kids SHOULDN'T be doing our jobs. Those are OUR jobs, and it's keeping us from doing them properly.

If you want to totally desert your staff members this way, you'll probably find a lot more quitting.

I have put SO much time and effort into this site for NO PAY, and very little reward. Technically, you asking us to do that is probably illegal. You profit but expect us to slave for nothin. We love it and don't complain.

Unfortunately, when you do stuff like this, it makes it totally worthless.

If I wanted to be given contradicting orders over something I work hard for all day long, I'd've gotten a real job and gotten paid.

I'm really hurt by this bull smelly .

Please think about the STAFF.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by DebiLee

Actually, I totally agree. I've never minded someone saying don't type in all caps or don't mention other pet sites or please don't advertise in the Shoutbox or other simple things like that. Sometimes there are no Mods/UA's on (infrequently, but it still happens) to report things to.

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm by Bob_476

Thank you, Keith. I was trying to summon up the courage to say something like that for awhile now, but I was afraid that I would have been considered too...neurotic on the matter.

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