The work 'alchemy' is ambiguous here in Subeta. It should not be. 'Level' gets kinda overused too, so this is a compound Suggestion. But mostly I'm concerned about alchemy.

Right now Alchemy refers to both scroll making skills at Secluded Shrine gotten by making your pet intelligent and item making skills at Zosi's Alchove gotten by persistence (...and death). In the past, not a whole lot was going on at Zosi's so no big deal, right? But stuff's been happening there. To the degree that TPTB decide to continue supporting this new activity and the last month wasn't part of the theme of the month or something, some clarity may be in order.

I propose that Alchemy Points for making/using Scrolls now be called something different and at the secluded shrine the levels there get called something different. It could be Literacy, or Calligraphy Points or Scribe Skill, some other users may think of names more interesting or better.

I also propose that since level gets kinda overused here in Subeta too, that levels at Zosi's get called something different (like Alchemy Rank, since we're saving Alchemy for zombie combinations). Levels at Fantine's get called something different (like Baking Pow(d)er).

I'm not very imaginative, so if anyone wants to come up with some alternate names for these things, please post them here.

i definitely agree that alchemy points should be changed, i don't really care what it's changed to as long as it makes sense. there's been too much confusion between the two, with users asking about one and getting answers about the other, etc.

ah that's a good point, I really don't care what the resulting different name is either. I should modify my OP to leave that open and maybe folks will suggest stuff.

I agree that the alchemy points for scrolls should be named differently. Maybe "literacy level"? Does that sound wrong?

I think Literacy is a good way to think of it too, it'd be like getting a degree in liberal arts, only it's magic. I added that to my original post.

idk, AP and alchemy levels don't ever confuse me. AP have been around longer than the alchove I'm pretty sure, I'd prefer to change that one instead. call it crafting level or something.

Support for this idea.

I like the idea of "Calligraphy Points" and "Scribe Skill" because it plays into the region. I guess more traditionally (well for video games anyway) we could call them "Mana" or "Mana/Magic Points." Not creative at all, but at least it makes a little more sense!

I also like the idea of calling the Alchemy Levels "Ranks" instead. (i.e. when new items come out, Zosi will say "you need to be X rank to make these items.") To some degree we'll still have the issue of Rank being used in two different places as the Blue Building has ranks as well, but those aren't discussed as extensively from what I've seen.

Fantine could be something like "Baking Skill" so everything is distinguished and then the only "levels" that I can think of off the top of my head are item hunt (which makes sense because it's a game) and pet's level (which makes sense because that's a totally different aspect of the site). A change like the one proposed would make things a little more clear here and could play into developing the mythology/backstory/whatever you want to call it of the different regions of Subeta.

^ basically this. we've had AP points for longer than we've had the alcove, so if one of them had to be changed, it should be the latter.

you and I have been around for a long time and we're battlers. Because we've been around, we're used to Subeta in all of its complication as one whole. I've seen you in Help & Questions and new players can be pretty intimidated here. Battling itself is pretty complicated.

I thought about priority of the name Alchemy too, and that battling was first. My own headcanon for the scribing of scrolls is that you're gathering materials for ink and parchment and casting the spells into permanent form and not really doing the weird alchemical alteration of Alchove, the domestic organic chemistry of Fantine, or the SCIENCE! of the Genetech lab. YMMV.

Since I am thinking about new players who are likely to see the other kinds of item combination in the News and nothing at all about scrolls unless they start battling, I think they're more likely to encounter the other item combiners much earlier than they would be making scrolls with AP, so I decided to give 'alchemy' to Zosi.

Separately, there is a thread in Items about changing item names to be more consistent. This consistency is as unnecessary as mine own Suggestion here. Subeta plays just fine with misspellings and naming quirks intact. Organizing things is fun, and while you and I are comfortable with the chaos I think a little order would not go amiss.

Battling would be the first place a new user encounters it because unless it is survival, a new player won't have access to a zombie skin to start crafting at the alchove.

I definitely agree with one of them being changed, and I see what experienced battlers are saying about changing the Alchove instead. On the other hand, many new users/battlers are frequently asking how to increase their AP, and I think a change to "Literacy (something-or-other)" may make that aspect slightly more self-explanatory that books = AP. shrugs Just my two cents.
[edit]Eh... Solsticesprite beat me to it anyway. LOL Me, and my poor typing abilities. Sorry! Though kbbob has a point, too...

while AP have indeed been around longer, i think it makes more sense for alchove-related things to be referred to as alchemy, considering it actually fits more with the traditional idea of alchemy - combining and transmuting various objects (obtained from the philosopher's store, a reference to the alchemical idea of a philosopher's stone which can be transmuted into anything) to create new objects - whereas AP seems to me to refer more to traditional magic, i.e. combining ingredients like plants and animal parts to create 'spells' which are then represented in the form of scrolls, and the amount of AP your pet has determines how skilled they are in this magic - which spells they can create, and how many spells they can use. so the term 'alchemy' doesn't really fit as well for scrolls, in my opinion at least.

I don't think either are really accurate representations of alchemy and changing something that's been around so long would just create more confusion. leave alchemy points as alchemy points. if someone isn't a battler, they won't even encounter them. if someone is a battler and is confused about these, there's a lot of learning involved with battling. changing names isn't going to fix that call the alchemy levels something like a craft level with craft exp. I don't think there will be any confusion then.

[edit] besides, changing the alchove terminology is a change in one spot. changing anything in battling requires it in multiple pages + numerous guides and stuff. changes with battling also require different admins than usual to sign off. it's just a lot easier going the alchove route.

I don't really see that much for confusion about this. It seems like when people are asking about one or the other, they know which one they need. So I don't think the change is necessary. If one were changed, I agree that it'd be easier to change the Alchove but that it makes more sense to change battling

Also I don't find "level" to be overused or confusing either. I doubt that changing a few instances to "rank" is going to really do much.

I think AP is widespread enough that if we do change it, it should keep the acronym AP. Ability Points? Academic Points? Archival Points? Astral Points? Abracadabra Points?

Something that starts with A though.

While I've never been confused about either concept, I can see changing one of them being a good idea. Which one gets changed is up to someone else, though; I don't really care.

I have a feeling that changing AP to another term would cause just as much confusion as it is supposed to clear out.

I have never been confused about the two myself, neither have I found the term level confusing when it's used alot. Obviously there's quite a few words in many languages that will have different meanings depending on how they are used. Yes, level and rank can mean more than one thing. But if a new user will ask how to increase their level I'd hope that they will also clarify which one. If not I'd possibly tell them that they need to go to the training center to increase their pets level for battling. They should be able to realize that it's not what they need to do if they are searching for a way to increase their baking level with Fantine. Also there's explanations how all those work on the respective pages? Reading a few lines on a page or through a few stickies in the forums should not be too hard.

But that's just me, I won't complain if a change helps people either way. Though I also think the term that has been around longer should stay.

Definitely agree that alchemy needs to be changed. I don't really care which, though the battlers seem set on keeping AP for battling and I'm fine with that.

Underground alchemy and battling AP do get mixed up pretty frequently by players, and not just new ones. Even people who have been on site for a long time, but who haven't battled get confused. And while they may know which one they are speaking of when they ask a question, I often don't know which one they mean and either have to guess or give them information they don't need which can add to the confusion.

Level, on the other hand, I see much less, or even no confusion at all. Even though its referred to in several places, it all means the same thing. When people ask questions about it, they give enough additional info so we know what they're talking about and can answer intelligently.

Why are alchemy points even a thing for scrolls, it never made sense to me, i wouldnt mind seeing it changed or just gotten rid of completely and scrolls just require multiples of 16 intel instead. not a bit of difference except making more sense imo

I was wondering much the same to be honest - alchemy screams "make things from numerous items" to me (like the alchemist), so really it'd make a lot more sense to change the AP for reading books to a pet, rather than changing the name of the alchemist's alchemy points ;)

Literacy level makes a lot more sense for the AP from reading books (as your pet's literacy would no doubt improve with each book it reads), and keep alchemy for the alchemist ;)