In light of the release of the Hair drawer, and dawing inspiration from this and this thread, I've decided to try and make an up-to-date general thread for wardrobe layer clarity suggestions!

Some areas where there is a particular lack of clarity: Ankles vs Legs: both of these contain stockings and some items of leg/ankle jewelry. Backdrop vs Foreground: Since we can layer above and below the HA base, these categories become a little fuzzy! Chest, Body, Full Body: Swimsuit-style items appear in all three, as do various tattoo styles (especially in body and fullbody) Chest vs Overchest: Both contain vests/waistcoats and jackets/sweaters Hat vs Head: Both contain crowns, circlets, etc. Neck vs Shoulders: Both contain scarves/shawls, "neck brace"/choker style items

What we need is a clear definitions of what belongs in each layer, and possibly additional layers to help us find what we're looking for!

I'm going to list the current layers with what I think should be a good definition of what belongs in each, then add a list of layers that I think would be additionally helpful. Please feel free to leave suggestions, commentary, etc!

Ankles: items on or near the ankles that are not shoes, and do not extend above the knee. Eg, short socks, anklets, short tattoos, etc. Arms: Items that cover the arms but not the shoulders, chest, or hands. Eg, sleeves, bracelets/arm jewelry, cuffs, etc. Back: Items that rest on the mid or upper back, but do not cover the shoulders. Eg, wings, capes, backpacks, quivers, etc. Backdrop: Locations and similar that cover all or almost all of the background area. Body: Items that are not full outfits, but cover more than one major area. Eg, rompers, overalls, large tattoos, jumpsuits, skin overlays Bottom: Items that cover the legs of the HA but do not go above the waist or below the ankle. Eg, pants, skirts, underwear Chest: Items that cover/hang from the torso of the HA, but are not jackets/coats/vests. Eg, shirts (short and long sleeve), dresses, bras, crop tops, bathing suits, etc. Ears: items that cover/hang from the ears. Eg, earrings, earmuffs, alternative ears Face: items that rest on or cover the face. Eg, makeup, eyes/mouths/noses, eyebrows, facial tattoos, glasses, etc. Feet: Items that cover the feet and/or toes, especially shoes. Eg, boots, sneakers, sandals, toe rings, claws Fingers: items that rest on the fingers but do not cover the whole hand or go past the wrist. Eg, rings, claws, nail polish Foreground: Items that are not a full background, and do not serve as somewhere for the HA to stand. Eg, frames, auras, companions Full Body: Items that are complete outfits or costumes. Eg, bodysuits, complete outfit items, etc. Ground: Items that serve as a place for the HA to stand. Eg, floors, carpets, grass/sand piles, etc. Hair: Exactly what it says on the tin! Hair and wig items. This layer shouldn't need much, if any, tinkering, since it's our newest. Hands: Items that cover most or all of the hand/fingers. Eg, gloves, hand wraps, etc Hat: Non-companion items that rest on the top HA's head but aren't modifications. Eg, hats, crowns, headbands, bandannas, veils Head: Items that modify the HA's head, companions that rest on the head, items that rest on the forehead/temple. Eg, animal/item heads, animal ears, antlers, hair ribbons, goggles, etc. Held: items that are held in the HA's hand or tucked under the arm. Eg, weapons, rag dolls, flags, balloons, etc. Legs: Items that cover the feet and legs below the waist. Eg, stockings, tights, long socks, large leg tattoos, etc. Lower Back: Items that affix to the HA's lower back. Eg, tails, coattails, bustles, back bows, etc. Neck: Items that hang from the HA's neck without encompassing the shoulders. Eg, necklaces, collars, small scarves, etc. Over Chest: Items that are buttoned or zipped to be worn as an overlayer. Eg, Jackets, vests, sweaters, etc Shoulders: Items that hang from or sit on the HA's shoulders. Eg, shawls, big scarves, pauldrons, etc. Waist: Items that fasten or hang around the HA's waist without covering the legs or the torso. Eg, belts, sashes, cummerbunds, etc.

What new or combined drawers might make sorting or delineating these easer? I think it might be helpful to separate the Face drawer into Makeup, Facial Features, and Facial Accessories.
's thread, linked above, suggested merging Back and Lower Back, which had a fair bit of support. I could see a drawer for Wrists for specifically cuffs, bracelets, etc, being useful. There's a lot of different item types in the Head category, I'd love some ideas for how to divide them in a sensible manner!

Please let me know your thoughts and suggestions c:

Yes to pretty much all of this! I've been reacquainting myself with the contents of my wardrobe lately (after a lengthy hiatus/in anticipation of Masq) and frequently, trying to find items I vaguely recall the appearance of but can't remember the name to search for has been a real challenge. Sometimes I give up altogether, only to stumble across the thing I was looking for days later in a segment of the wardrobe it never even occurred to me to scan through.

Personally, I'm okay with having pretty big layers, and organising things into Drawers of my own where I feel the need. (For example, for the Face layer alone, I've split it into four so far - "eyes", "lips", "masks" and everything else falls under "No Drawer".) However I probably have a lot fewer clothes than many people so I might be underestimating the need for whole new layers. I'd just like the ones we have so far to make sense!

My particular bugbear is the Body/Fullbody layers; right now they seem to have so little distinction, I would actually find it far less frustrating if they were just merged into a single layer (which would still make for one of the relatively smaller layers in the wardrobe, at least so far as official items go; no idea about CWs). Although how I'd ideally like to see them arranged (ignoring for the moment the possibility of new layers) is a little different to your definitions, - my best guess as to how they were originally meant to be separated, which I'd be on board with, is something more like...

Body - items that affect the appearance of the base in some way, whether it's makeup, tattoo, body modification, 'skin' (i.e. similar effect to the Skins section of the wardrobe), and cover more than one area. For example: [item=Ghouls Choice Liquid Latex (Dark)]

(Quick quiz for anyone who's bored enough to play and knows their wardrobe well: which of the above items are currently under the Body layer, and which under Fullbody? Hint - it's 50/50!)

Fullbody - clothes items that cover, well, the full body :D or at least enough different areas that they can't realistically be classed in any of other layers. For example:

(Same as before: which items are currently under the Body layer, and which under Fullbody? It's 50/50!)

I'll admit those definitions could probably use improvement; there are a few items I stared at for a while with no idea where I'd categorise them (Is that a "body modification" or is it "clothes"? IDK!): Maybe there should be a "Whatever" layer, so staff can just throw particularly awkward items in there, going "We don't even know what this counts as, you work it out! Have fun!"

And as for dresses... currently, they seem to be mostly in the Chest layer. But there's an argument to be made that they should all be in the Fullbody layer - as some of them are! Does it depend on the length of the dress? There are certainly plenty of minidresses that barely cover the butt (scandalous!) and seem to contain less fabric than the average tank top so I guess I can see how all of those ended up in the Chest layer, buuut if they're all considered as "things that are acceptable to wear without leggings underneath" (which moral guardian gets to make that judgement!?) then surely they should be Fullbody items? You can see the confusion more with the longer ballgown-type garments, where it seems to be completely haphazard which layer they end up in. Last set of examples (though I'm sure I could do several more if I had the time!):

(Final quiz: which items are currently under the Chest layer, and which under Fullbody? Still 50/50!)

There's also confusion between items on the Body and Bottom layers, especially when it comes to animal items. I can't identify a consistent reasoning for why these items were placed on different layers (and some of them, like the Water Nymph Serene Music Box and Carved Ringed Octopus Sculpture, were released at the same time!)

Body:

Bottom:

The Ground and Foreground layers have a similar issue: Natural Stepping Stones is a Foreground item, whereas Enriched Grass Seed is a Ground item, despite them both being grassy places to stand that cover a similar area of the HA. I like Armor's suggestion of moving all items that are a place to stand out of Foreground and into Ground, and conversely moving plant items like into foreground. (Items like should probably go to Foreground too, despite not technically being "in front" of the HA.)

Then there are weird outliers like , which is classified as a Backdrop for some reason. I think a lot of the older items could use an audit to see if they're in a logical place.

Yeah, I mostly went with what seemed to me to be the majority item type in each layer but there are definitely some outliers. Your suggestion of "appearance of the base" vs "clothes for the full body" also makes sense to me (in addition to potentially clearing up the issue mentioned by by providing a definitive location for animal bottoms!) Another option is the way divvied them up in their original thread:

This sort of division would put shorter dresses like into Chest, and full-length dresses like into Body.
There are a couple different ways the items could be split up; mostly what we need is clear guidelines on what each one means.

Thank you so much for putting this thread together. I feel like I play around in the wardrobe less and less as the years go on - mostly because I get frustrated not being able to find things! I love your definitions in the OP. The head layer is super tricky and I'll be thinking about how I would like to see it separated out and come back here to post if I think of anything useful.

The is considered fullbody even though it covers less than which can be found in the body layer. is another good example of a fullbody item that doesn't actually cover the entire body.

Some bags (or similar) are sorted to either shoulders or overchest but are worn exactly the same way. = shoulders VS = overchest

Talking about socks next! is a feet item but are sorted into the ankles category. Another comparison as an example: = feet VS = ankles

I am constantly confused with the ambiguity of layer definitions so any clarity to them is absolutely positively welcome!

Adding more layers (like the face one, eyes, mouth, etc.) would be so helpful..

Some older cws / items need a re-do of their layers. Like a lot of the booties are in 3 categories. Makes me forget I have some at times. EX: (and recolors) are in the "legs". is in "body" Most are in the "bottoms" though.

If they add more layers, I could see them doing the volunteer thing again, to help get everything in better sections again like they did with the hair layer. I'm all for this, because with so many more items being added, its harder to find things, haha..

I'm thinking its just time to get rid of layers completely. Way back in the original wardrobe, the layer system made sense. The base layer did not move, there were limits on the number of items one could wear based on layers, etc. The layers had an actual purpose. Now, with all the changes to the system the layers serve only to divide items into semi-manageable blocks so we can find stuff.

So layers have evolved into this mishmash system that no longer serves the original purposes and only half-assed works in the way we currently use them.

For example, when I'm looking for pants for my HA, I want to see pants, leggins, overalls and bodysuits. I don't want to constantly move between legs, bottom, body and fullbody. I don't want to see skirts or dresses or panties or animal legs, just pants. If I'm unsure what I want - pants, shorts, skirts, etc, then I want to be able to see the items that cover the legs to give me ideas/inspiration on what would look good, and again, I don't want to run around different layers, I want a general overview of the types of items I could choose, then get more specific and decide on pants or skirts or animal legs.

To me, this implies some kind tag system rather than a strict layer system. But I lack imagination and there may be lots of other options.

I love tags as a concept, and I'm glad to hear they're something that'd be doable in the new wardrobe! Here are some of the tags/tag categories I think I'd personally find the most useful: Colors Even just the basics would be useful: Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Purple, White, Black, Brown Location Where on the body the item sits--this probably lines up the most with existing layers: Head, Face, Shoulders, Back, Arms, Chest, Waist, Legs, Feet seem to be the broad categories that most things would fall under. Function What type of clothing it is: Shirts, Pants, Dresses, Jewelry, Body Modification, Animal Parts, Held Item, Hair, Facial Features, etc. This is the one that would need the most categories, I think; I've just listed a sample of what I think might be helpful to have. I might come back and make a more complete list later.

Source I can see how it might be handy to have a tag for where items come from or for rarity, since that's something that isn't searchable currently in the wardrobe.

I'd love to hear others' thoughts as well!

Yeah, unfortunately I can probably think of 50ish tags without coming close to being "complete".

Eliminate color - that;s already half done through the color selector. If only it could be finished.

I love, love the idea of source - however I don't think there would be enough tags to include it. Maybe a limited selection - cash shop, subeautique, costume trunks (those are the "sources" I've most often wanted an option to select).

I'd definitely like seasonal/holiday, winter, autumn, Luminaire, Morostide, etc.

Descriptors too might be handy - like long (could apply to shirt sleeve length, hair length, pants, skirts, etc), short, sheer, etc.

That's a fair point about the color sorter. If getting it functional and applied to all items is feasible, it could certainly replace color tags (though it is more specific, which I have sometimes found unhelpful).

I also like the idea of descriptor tags! I couldn't come up with good way to phrase it, but I like how you've put it, and it would be simple enough to combine with other tags to find the sort of thing one is looking for.

If there aren't enough tags for source tags, maybe a rarity search could be added to the filters, since that's a value the items already have? It wouldn't do everything I'd want from a source tag, but it would cover most of it.

I agree the color selector can be too specific, but for the brief times it was actually working (in previous versions of the wardrobe), I found that could still be worked with by choosing a specific color, then from the items displayed finding one that had a darker or lighter version of the color I was interested in and selecting that.

I'd want a lot more sorting/filtering options - certainly rarity, alphabetical, price (though I don't really expect that one to ever be added, it would be nice).

[edit] Was just imaging what would be really useful with color and sorting and realized if the color selector could be finished, a "rainbow" sort order would be great!

I would really love to see anything that helps with this. Its so hard to find the type of item I'm looking for if I don't know which exact item I want.