like... this is mostly just me being salty but. i find it incredibly frustrating to be denied on grounds of "not matching subeta's style".

like if there's a problem with the shading, anatomy, perspective, lineart, ANY of that i'm like yeah okay I'll fix it.

but there is no such thing as "subeta's style."

all of these are items onsite:

zero shade to any of the above items, i quite like many of them, i just picked them to highlight how much the styles on the site vary ^^^

in this selection alone....

outer lineart can be: thin, thin to the point of transparency, very thick, medium thick, sharp, muddy, nonexistant inner lineart can be: the same as outer lineart, nonexistant, vague, transparent, black, not black shading can be: sharp, muddy, pale, dark, linear, geometric, non-geometric, simple, complex, nearly nonexistant highlights can be: shiny, nonexistant, soft, vague, strong, geometric shapes can be: geometric, organic, realistic, simple

like look at items of the same type next to each other, like:

vs vs vs

subeta features so many wonderful items but they all differ WILDLY in style from artist to artist, or even item to item from the same artist.

there is no such thing as "subeta style" and therefore it is not something that denied artists can provide a concrete fix for. what are we supposed to do? redraw it and hope the person who reviews it next likes it this time?

it is not an objective and not a fair denial. tell us what you want us to change, because otherwise we just have to keep guessing until we land on something "approved" or run out of chances to submit an item.

this kind of vagueness in denials is very frustrating and alienating to new creators who haven't yet landed on the style you're looking for, and autistic releasers such as myself for whom unclear instructions can be triggering of a breakdown.

tell me what you want me to change all you want. but please like, actually tell me.

I 100% agree with you. The last denial I got for not matching 'Subeta style' was for a body mod I did. I was told the hands were not 'Subeta style'. I tried filing a ticket to get more clarification, as the hands were 'chibi' and 'cell shaded', but the staff member at the time only gave me more confusing and conflicting behavior.

I did exactly as you suggested here, just redrew it and hoped and prayed it was fine =/ It passed the second time, but... they were the exact same style? Chibi and cell shaded? So I have no idea what the denial meant.

This should not be a denial. There needs to be clarification, because as it is, it comes off very "I just don't like it but can't figure out why".

i'm not talking about that one, i'm talking about the koala ears. this was the entire complaint about the overlay:

(there were more notes on the item, but i'm talking about the overlay.)

this, ftr, is the overlay in question:

but my point is not being salty about this one item. it is that this level of vagueness isn't really an acceptable denial reason when "subeta style" isn't really something that exists, and is entirely in the eye of the beholder.

like yall have no way of knowing vague instructions give me panic attacks but that doesn't mean vague instructions are like, good....

I totally agree with you that "subeta style" is not a good explanation for a denial and that reasons given for denials should not be vague.

I agree that some sort of clarification should be given beyond "not matching subeta style" (ie. thin lineart, pixellated lineart, needs more shading, etc etc).

There's a really handy thread here to get help with denials, I've given and received help there and it's wonderful for direct feedback.

As kind of an aside, I think the revamp of the custom wearable guidelines will make it easier on artists and staff alike to apply rules more evenly. I think staff are going "by feel" most of the time for acceptances/denials right now, because what's acceptable as "subeta style" has certainly evolved since CWs were first allowed. Without firm guidelines that everyone can look to, there's bound to be confusion.

Side Note 2: Keith himself has said that staff are not held to the same standards as CW artists, so there's no use comparing site items with CW items as far as allowable art styles are concerned.

My thinking on this is even more loose, in that I don't think Subeta needs "a style". There are so many different ways to draw something and want it to appear on your HA, and CWs are about personal expression. I totally want Scribble clothes.

Rah and everyone who has ever worked approval and denials do give you enough to work with. Sometimes we might not understand exactly what they mean, as is the nature of human existence and of communication solely through text and limited communications. You can always file a ticket if you don't understand. However, I recommend an alternative, which I'll circle back to in a moment.

In the nicest way possible, those ears and their accompanying item image did not meet quality and detail qualifications for CWs. That was the message you got and that's the reason.

As Tartlette said, there is a thread where other CW artists will help you understand why something was denied and what it means and how to fix it. You just have to ask. I would really recommend going here before filing a ticket because usually, you'll find the answers you needed there.

Sometimes, you're just going to get frustrated. Sometimes you're gonna give up. That's okay. It happens. There are plenty of high quality artists who have either given up on drawing CWs or won't bother in the first place because it's not their style. That's how it is. There's nothing wrong with that.

But, as we've covered in the past time and time again, the answer to your problems is not to blame the staff who work thanklessly to keep this site running and provide quality content. Maybe that's not how you intended it, but that's how this comes across. Ask other artists who have been doing this for years and have offered their help for free on the forums. Keep working at it. That's all.

I've actually been told by a staff member that other users are not allowed to 'assume they know what staff is thinking' with their denials / the rules and that they only way to KNOW is to talk to the staff member who issued the denial. (I had planned on making my own 'denial guide' a few years back and was told this was NOT allowed because I'd be 'assuming' I knew what staff wanted, even though I've had years of experience with denials.) HOWEVER. I've also been on the receiving end of this type of confusing denial where the staff member who denied the artwork could not further explain what they meant other than "It doesn't match Subeta Style." I simply had to guess until I got it right / they were sick of seeing it.

A denial should have clarification in a sense that the user should be able to look for information THEMSELVES that might explain the denial.

"Not subeta style" -- I cannot find concrete information on this. "Has pillow shading" -- I can totally google this and see exactly what this means.

Requiring that a user plays the guessing game with other users, rather than giving them full clarification is 100% on the staff member.

I'm really, really tired of people acting like criticism means a user hates or is mistreating staff members. The system will never, ever improve is no one is allowed to express grievances or frustrations on broken parts of the system.

It's even more annoying when you already have an item of the same style approved and on site but after adding some extra detail to it, it suddenly doesn't match Subeta style anymore even though it's basically the same item, even with the extra details that were drawn in EXACTLY the SAME style as the item you had approved before.

I have no idea what to take from this, really.

Might I recommend a change from "Subeta Style" to "Subeta Quality" if that's the case for what you're using this for?

Style and quality are two completely different things. Telling someone their style doesn't match can potentially lead them on a wild goose chase because Subeta DOES have so many different styles.

(My art style looks nothing like 's for example, but both of us have art that matches Subeta's quality!)

Telling them quality is the issue gives them a much more concrete task to work on and there are resources to assist with quality issues.

When I was first starting work on CWs, I saw a lot of people going "Oh well my style doesn't work for CWs I guess, so I'll give up." It's hard to change your style once you've gotten it, but quality can always be improved.

Hope that makes sense, I feel like I rambled a little! OTL

I was actually thinking this last night as I was writing this up! I'm going to reword the preset denial reason to be clearer :)

I think a lot of us will be happy if it's reworded.

Even if it's just to "quality" that is at least an issue regarding quality, as opposed to a judgement call on aesthetics.