Date format and the necro rule have been pointed out in several topics so this is for other things which people think make the forums restrictive. (Forum groups not included in my own comments - I don't belong to any so have no idea what people talk about in them)

1. Most of the forums are Subeta related. There's a limit to how many Subeta related posts I can make in any given day.

2. Other forums. I started an experimental topic in the Entertainment forum and checked guidelines with a staff member. Posting links to YouTube videos wasn't easy when it came to site guidelines, though. One of my favourite songs at the moment is Wolf Totem by The Hu. I've shared it on Facebook and others have as well and people who commented on it think it's awesome. When it came to Subeta I ended up thinking - has scary bikers and the English translation of the lyrics could be regarded as a bit too aggressive. Better not. I then decided that The Crown And The Ring by Manowar should be OK and am now hoping I'm right.

3. Took a look at Current Events. People seem to be very careful to make neutral posts in there. Say something which starts a heated debate and a mod is likely to lock the topic. Conclusion - if I want to talk about politics, current affairs/events I'll go to Facebook.

I still think there needs to be a link to the forum-specific rules on the top of the main forums page. Nothing fancy, just a text link the same size as the other links. Even people who have been here a while might need to take a look at them every now and then. (I know there's a link to the rules way at the bottom of the page. I'm lazy, don't make me scroll =p)

I also think the necro rule needs revisiting, but as OP said, this has been mentioned a LOT already, so I won't go into detail about my thoughts on that. In short, I think that if it's so important to uphold that rule, there needs to be a feature in place that automatically locks threads after three months so that people don't accidentally get themselves in trouble by posting on them.

Sometimes other people themselves are restrictive, kind of. I remember several years ago asking for help on something or other on the Battle forums, and the people who replied to me made me feel like an absolute idiot for asking. Granted, it's a lot better now, and the people who replied to me back then probably aren't even around anymore. But it's hard to forget that initial embarrassment, and in general bad experiences stick with me longer than good ones. Many other people here could have had similar bad experiences, and think the same way.

That's not just something that's unique to Subeta's boards, by the way. Not too long after I got hired at my current job, I went to a class for customer service training. To make a similar point to the one I'm making now, the instructor asked all of us to remember an example of excellent customer service. Most of us had to think for a few moments before coming up with one. But when it came to coming up with examples of horrible customer service, not only did most of us have no trouble coming up with several; we were able to describe them in great detail and pretty much convince everyone else not to go to that establishment.

I may be alone in this, but no amount of randomly handed out free gifts will make me forget a bad experience.

Other than that, I mostly don't post on the forums because I usually don't see a whole lot of topics I'm interested in. Now the obvious answer to that is to make my own threads about Animaniacs, or Rifftrax, or whatever and hope that there are other people who even know what I'm talking about, much less be interested in discussing them XD But I get to talk about those things with other people outside Subeta, so I don't really feel a need to come here to do so.

So much agreement with what has already been said.

Mostly I'd like to yeet the necro rule into the rift.

I think Subeta needs to decide if they really want people to post in the forums (and have meaningful, engaging conversations, not just spam in game threads for FPs) or not. Because if they do, they need to stop making so many obstacles to having actual conversations. I don't see how it harms anything to contribute to a topic that has been idle for four months (especially on such slow forums) and it really should not be the end of the world and the death of the thread if everyone doesn't agree on something, as long as people aren't attacking each other.

Discord is one of the reasons why the forums are dead. Want to talk about something non subeta related with more active people? Join a discord group. Got opinions on items, politics, or other opinions? Discord. I talk more on subeta related discords than I do on subeta itself. Gee. I wonder why that is. thinking emoji

The necro rule needs to be either done away with or the time restraint needs to revamped. With how dead the forums are, it's no wonder the necro rule gets broken.

I know many people are going to be against this but, bring the debate forum back. HOWEVER debates or discussion about the rights of LGBT, disabled, or otherwise basic human law necessities should be against the rules with the warning of getting forum banned for a certain amount of time. Three strikes you're out. I don't care what your opinions are on gay people; whether you're homophobic or not. Talk about something that matters like anti vaxx outbreaks, animal cruelty, gun laws, etc. This controls the debates of what goes on much better without barring people from talking about anything entirely. NOPE. YA'LL NASTY.

Also maybe a forum for staff thats open only during special occasions where people can ask all the staff questions about things directly, similar to what Gaia does. That way users can know what's going on, what special things are happening, or even to just compliment staff. It's not necessary, but something fun.

So no one remembers the death threats or targeting of the debate forums? Okay, okay.

seconding this, bringing back the debate forum is probably one of the worst things that could happen. it was closed for a reason. we have enough drama on site as it is, we don't need a place where it can be cultured. friendly debates didnt exist here, and stuff got ugly quickly. especially now, with subeta discords and off site websites, bringing back the debate forum would just be a monumental disaster.

I have no clue how bad the debate forums got for you both to chime in and talk about how it must have been the worst thing ever but.... yeah nevermind it actually sounds like it might have been the worst thing ever :x and I thought those edgy subeta tumblr blogs were bad.

oh, not for me personally, but some of the debates went really south and most folk avoided the debate forum like the plague as it was a heaven for trolling and general aggravation (i.e atheist threads challenging other religions, discussion of taboo fetishes like necrophilia and why it isnt bad)

it was... not a good forum and I'm super glad it got shut down. Though, it was a good way to quickly see who was scummy on this site, it'd probably be worse to bring it back. A civil discussion/debate was a dime a dozen, and yeah with the offsite stuff now (the only one that existed back when the debate forum was a thing was an 'exclusive' one where you had to make posts in able to see the meat of the forum board/drama) much more accessible it'd be very troublesome.

I'm sorry. I meant to respond to everything else and agree with you but

Oof, well, to be fair, I personally don't remember any death threats from the debate forums. Not saying it didn't happen; I just didn't see it (I'm mostly a lurker anyway; I don't often participate in conversations but I'm kind of always around). But holy shit, what kind of toxic cultures are we incubating here that that happened? Jeez. I am certainly not advocating for that sort of nastiness. I'm a Reddit regular and I thought that place could get pretty gross; it's incredible that a nice little petsite could be so bad.

Regardless, the only way our forums are going to be a bastion of active conversation instead of the mostly vacuous dead space they are is if they are open and not overly regulated. Right now they feel suffocated. And for the record, in case it matters, I'm a leftist queer trans vegan atheist special snowflake or whatever, so I'm definitely not one of those who want to impinge on a safe space. I'm not someone who wants free reign to say offensive things and I don't particularly enjoy seeing offensive things that are said for the sake of being offensive. But I also see value in open communication and I'd rather have everything out in the open instead of hidden behind oppressive rules. I'd rather see truly objectionable content dealt with on a case-by-case basis instead of having the debate forums banned preemptively. I used to stalk the debate forums and I remember seeing lots of thought-provoking conversations happening without any particularly reprehensible behavior from the participants.

I mean, or, ya know, we could continue to drive all conversation toward Discord or FB or whatever and bemoan the lack of activity on our forums. I've said it before and I'll say it again: this site is amazing, we have some astonishingly good art and features here, and it deserves more traffic than it gets. But in this age of information, a site is going to founder and fail if it doesn't facilitate the sharing of that information. You can't be social media without the social or the media aspect, for better or worse (and I do recall a time when this site aspired to be "social media"...that does seem to be where the most internet traffic goes).

Anyway, I still think the necro rule is the worst. THE WORST. KILL IT.

YEAH, yeah. That was a thing. A hell of a thing to read.

1. Several comments in this thread have pointed out one big problem with the forums. Subeta started over fourteen years ago when there was no Twitter and Facebook wasn't open to the general public etc. These days there's a site or forum for all kinds of interests. For example, if I wanted to discuss Doctor Who I could sign up to Gallifrey Base instead of hoping someone on Subeta likes it enough to reply to a topic I make.

2. Site content has to be PG13. This is a bit vague when today's 13 year olds are on big social media sites sharing stuff that wouldn't be allowed on Subeta. I'm all in favour of Subeta being a safe space but maybe it's time to redefine who it's a safe space for and in what way.

3. Only English allowed in the forums. This can't be helped because mods don't have the time to translate posts in other languages with Google translate. Facebook, however, has an automatic translation feature where you can click a link to translate all comments.

4. My experimental topic. I wondered if users would (a) want to spend some Subeta time watching videos recommended by other users or (b) prefer to spend 30 seconds posting something in What Are You Listening To? in hope of getting a forum point. So far it looks like (b). I spend a lot of time on YouTube where I can read comments on videos in other languages with Google translate or easily share videos to Facebook and tag any friends I think might like them.

So. Much. This!

I'm in a few Subeta related discords and it's better than Subeta itself because I am free to share opinions that Subeta would normally not allow. We want to talk about current events? We can, without fear that our opinions are going to be too political or religious and get us in trouble. We want to share nsfw content we find funny or YouTube videos? Done, there's sections for that.

Subeta's forums currently seem restrictive and oppressive, especially the necro rule. I will second that if the staff really want to stick to it if not some kind of automatic system to lock them after 3 months then the minimods or whoever should do so, maybe like a once a week check through their respective places and locking everything over 3 months old. I'd be all for deleting them too, idk why that's not a thing Subeta does to save space like everywhere else. Something needs to change if the staff wants to help facilitate meaningful conversation, but I have no idea if that'll actually happen.

The English only rule again. Would this apply to posting links to songs in other languages? Some of my favourites are in German and Mongolian. I could always link to English translations if the videos don't have English subtitles but I'd be wary of doing this in case it broke the rule.

oh my god i know we don't need any more complaining about the necro rule so i'll keep this brief but, dear god do i hate the necro rule

i also honestly think some sub-forums are pretty pointless? they just make the forums feel more barren imo the ones i reckon could just be merged into their main forums are pet zappers, avatars (how is this one even different from the regular human avatars forums?) and random events

i also feel like having so many specific sub-forums is intimidating for new users, who might not be sure where to post and thus not post not to mention it also makes it easier to miss threads so less conversation happens overall ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

I apparently have a lot of opinions on this that I didn't know I had. XD Let's see if I can articulate:

• No Search: There was a search feature until recently, but even when it was existed it was not wholly useful in actually finding things.

This would be especially useful in places like Suggestions. I sometimes don't bother making a suggestion because I don't have time to search all the threads to see if my idea or something similar was suggested recently, and I don't want to get yelled at.

• Locked Threads Everywhere: I think this looks bad to people who might want to start getting into the forums. I mean, it looks bad to me, and I basically understand why they're there. The way of locking threads is also not ideal. Changing the forum title is not helpful, especially in sections like the Help & Questions. What if I have the same question as someone else, and it has been properly answered just a day or two ago, but now it's been locked and the title changed? I wouldn't even know - I'd have to post a new thread, and that can get tedious to users who see the same things cropping up over and over.

• Too Compartmentalized: Sometimes I don't post in the forums because I have no idea where to post it so that it would be in the proper place and get attention. I like compartmentalization, but I think the Subeta forums go a bit overboard. For example, there is a lot of overlap between Site Feedback and Suggestions; Subeta Pets, Battle, and General Discussion (Subeta Features); and Art Discussion and Profiles & Graphics Discussion. Also, it's not consistent - why is there a writing section in the Creative Corner but not Subeta Commerce?

This also might cause people to stick to very small communities and not venture elsewhere. Until very recently, I haunted the Adoption Center and Subeta Pets - and that was it. I didn't want to encroach on a different group of threads where I didn't know the community "rules". (I.E. I've heard some scary things about CW.)

mentioned that it doesn't take many bad experiences to put a bad taste in a person's mouth. One of my first posts on Subeta - perhaps the first one - was an introductory one in Welcomes & Introductions (makes sense, right?). But because I was not technically a "new" user (I'd been around for a few years, but I'd never posted on the forums), I was told I was in the wrong place and my thread got moved. It wasn't a super big deal in the long run, but it's made a lasting impression on me to avoid being in the wrong place.

• Unable to Double Post: Subeta doesn't really have a problem with spam (barring the recent gift box thing). Some threads it makes sense to ban this, but there are others that it doesn't. For example, people who set up shop often want to use the first couple of posts for information. I saw a thread in Masq where a person did this and they asked their friends to post wordless picture threads in-between. This really shouldn't be necessary. Or in the Adoption Center, I've had times when my thread has slipped down and I had new pets added or I wanted to remind people of the deadline or choose owners, and I had no recourse to bring that information to people's attention because my post was the last post. Some people have long-term threads in there that get pushed down unhelpfully - not because they're irrelevant, but because they get buried in all the non-relevant locked threads and the user can't even make a post about how it was updated.

By all means, this should still be avoided on, say, game threads and should never just be a word like "bump". But there are legit reasons to need to post after yourself.

• No Edit Marker/Time Stamp: Especially for informative threads (like the Available Real Word/Name threads in Subeta Pets and the one somewhere about the Job Agency), this would be extremely useful for the first post. Heck, even the art community or anywhere where someone is offering services would find this useful. It would indicate to users coming to the thread when the posting was last updated, so they would know if the information would still be pertinent or the services still available.

• The Heart Post Thing: What even is its point? We don't necessarily need a downvote like Reddit, but the Heart Post thing is lacking in other regards. Like I can't unheart a post that I realized later I don't agree with, and I can't heart posts on mobile browser at all.

• The Foreign Languages Thing: I love languages; linguistics is my passion. But I'm deathly afraid of even talking about them. Even just a word here and there. I can't even post the Italian word for "bye", though that's a pretty commonly recognized word in English, or the French phrase "I-don't-know-what", even though it's a somewhat commonly recognized phrase in English. I'd love to discuss how my pets Ochki and Kniga are real words in Russian, maybe even start a thread about pets named after real, non-English words, but how frowned upon would that be? Or impart my wisdom of language learning and linguistics, or start a (friendly) debate about it, but not being able to post anything in a foreign language is extremely prohibitive. I'm not even talking about whole conversations here.

And you can see for yourself my signature - I browse Subeta at the same time as studying, and I study Russian. Sometimes I forget what I last c/p'd and I'm deathly afraid that one day I'm going to accidently c/p something in Russian, not catch it, and be warned - or worse, frozen - immediately, no questions asked.

Conclusion so far - the forums need a major overhaul if they're to bear any relation to the internet in 2019. We don't expect miracles like being able to share stuff to Subeta with one click but I'm sure people would be happy to use sCode if we didn't have to wonder about what counts as PG13. Is this PG13 by today's standards or the standards of fourteen and a half years ago?

The no spam rule is a bit of a joke when many of the active topics exist just for the sake of gaining forum points or getting 100 posts for the Blue Building. Did I bother reading what other people got from Mallarchy Pond? No. Will other people bother to read what I got from it? No. It's just a quick copy, paste and hit the Post button. I don't need any more Carnival Tickets so won't go there again unless Major Drills asks me to play a Carnival Game tomorrow. These topics are safe, though, because we don't have to worry about saying something which will break a rule and there's no risk of accidentally committing the necroing sin.

A famous poem by John Keats has a title and one line in French. I couldn't post it on Subeta without translating this into The Beautiful Lady Without Mercy.

I'd love to see the necro rule adjusted to one year, three months seems REALLY short given how slow the forums have been lately. There have been different boards for just basic, fun chatter that I've typed up a reply to it and then realized oop, the person before me didn't notice it's been five months since anyone said anything because it probably never made it off the first page of that forum.

I also agree on reducing the number of subforums and I'd love to see the double post thing adjusted somehow for information and event boards, but bumping is kind of annoying. : / If people didn't want to buy your items/adopt your pets/comment on your suggestion the first time, they're unlikely to change their mind just because your topic has been at the top of the page for the last month.

Further thoughts on what counts as PG13. First, to illustrate what I mean. Me on Subeta - I'd better not post a link to Wolf Totem by The Hu in case a mod thinks the lyrics aren't PG13. Thirteen year olds on social media sites - "Here's some awesome Mongolian heavy metal."

What's suitable for Subeta is a bit blurry. We have some very gruesome items on the site and there's also items related to Lovecraft and black magic. One of my pets was delighted to get her paws on a book called Darkest Blood Magic. Another pet has her dream job of being a Scary Assassin for Maleria. Amy was sacrificed to Merana, we had organ harvesting one Morostide and some of the developmental stages for the corkscrew virus were downright yuk.

So, back to Wolf Totem. One mod might think lines like these are a bit too violent - in spoiler tags just to be safe

WARNING TO BE ON THE SAFE SIDE AGAIN

Another mod, meanwhile, might think that's nowhere near as bad as organ harvesting, rotting zombies and an HA wearing a

with this

This is why we need clarification.

The debate forum was closed for reason of people were willing to be incredibly uncivilized there and that's morphed into basically a course in how to mind your manners on current events.

The PG-13 rule is a great one, honestly, it allows for use of more adult language if the user wants but it also forces them to consider what they want to say in that regard. Why use an F bomb when you can, I don't know, actually articulate yourself properly? Hmm. Additionally, while we're on the topic of PG-13, Survival flies in the face of that with its tending towards blood, guts and gore and/or encouraging skimpy dress. Just saying.

The necro rule as a whole right now is overkill for how dead the forums are. Let's just beat the dead thing a bit more by saying you can't keep it remotely alive.

Foreign languages being banned... on a site as international as Subeta... is more to make sure that the rules are followed, so I've been told. But I agree, there's a point where that's just overkill and we've reached it.

Just my two cents on the matters at hand.