I can't tell. I want to say rat, buuuut...?

[item2=Most Affectionate Gift]

I've almost completed my rat gallery, and I don't want to put a mouse in there. 😆

Also, anyone have an opinion on this guy?:

I'm calling that one a mouse, I think.

I would say mouse because you typically hear about cats brining you move and not rats (although it does happen)

Thank you! That's what I was thinking, too. ^.^ In context it seems like a mouse, but the super pointy nose and long tail are throwing me off. 😆

I think the only thing you have going to judge for the lab one is the size of the pencil compared to the mouse or rat. Certainly looks as long as a pencil but my gut instinct says mouse? :l tough call

I think the first one might be a mouse because most cats will catch mice for gifts or toys (in my case my cat likes to toss them in the air and act like they're a hockey puck.)

The second one I think it depends on which one you want to call it because it could be a lab rat or mouse. But it's hard to say, I think it's a rat, but I can totally see the mouse part as well.

I would say the first one is definitely a mouse, and the second I think is a rat, simply due to the name and 'lab rats' being quite common to hear about. Also the tail is definitely rat-like.

I agree that these are both problematic if you want to make a mouse/rat distinction.

The first one is shaped more like an adult rat with a weirdly stubby tail, but it's pretty rare for a cat to succeed vs an adult rat. Adult rats are canny, fierce, and can defeat a cat if they're at all aware that they're being hunted. And an adult rat that succeeds multiple times, well it's tail might be shorter through injury, wouldn't it? I'd include this in your TC if your pet is characterized as a fierce hunter.

The second is pencil-sized, which makes it medium-rat sized, but it looks more like a mouse so it'd be a huge mouse. Any pencil that is that thin compared to its length would be ridiculously unuseful if it was carried by a mouse-sized mouse. OTOH if you're using this critter as a lab-assistant, you might be more than a little mad and this wouldn't matter to you, because SCIENCE? And if your pet is MAD then a huge mouse wouldn't bother it either?

The first one could be either - though a mouse is more likely.

I'd say the lab thing is definitely a rat though, mostly because of that tail.

naked tail = rat.

they both look like rats.

If I was being really strict I'd keep the first one out. Size would make me think mouse... I think the second guy is a rat.

Mice have 'naked' tails too? Well actually both have a small amount of fine fur on them.

I don't agree with 's criterion of naked tail. Rats and mice both have fine fur on their tail but you wouldn't necessarily see it on a white or albino lab-version of either, and the first item is clearly a fake toy so its tail is not necessarily meant by the manufacturer/crafter to be all that realistic.

So, based on appearance, I would agree that the first looks more rat-like, and the second looks more mouse-like.

I vote rat

Depends they both could be either to be honest

I'm feeling mouse for both of those.

I'm no expert but it looks more like a rat to me.

I'm guessing that Siance is a rat and at least partially based on this rat.

Greatly depends on the cat's fighting spirit, whether or not it will win in a fair fight. Usually, though, the lack of a cat's fighting spirit means that the fight doesn't happen. If the cat is confident (read - "mad Max mad") enough to try it, s/he's got the usual 50/50 chance of a fight of equals, give or take the fighters' experience and luck.

I.e, you need a wandering village/city cat, though, not a pampered show pussy-cat, but many of them are very decent ratters :)

From https://www.thespruce.com/important-facts-about-mice-and-rats-2656690 Body Shape

Norway Rat: Heavy and Thick body, weigh 11 ounces or 300 grams
Roof Rat: Light and Slender Body, weigh 7 ounces or 200 grams
House Mouse: Small Head, Small Feet, weigh 0.5 ounces or 15 grams

Snout Shape

Norway Rat: Blunt
Roof Rat: Pointed
House Mouse: Pointed

Ear Size and Hair

Norway Rat: Short, Dark Hairs
Roof Rat: Large, No Hair
House Mouse: Large, Some Hair

(Colouration stuff is largely useless here)

From https://www.diffen.com/difference/Mouse_vs_Rat Mouse Rat Head Small, triangular, small relative to body Short, stubby, broad, large relative to body Ears Ears are large relative to the head. Ears are small relative to the head. Eyes Slightly bigger in relation to the head Smaller in relation to head Muzzle Narrow with sharp muzzle Large and blunt with wide muzzle Tail A mouse is small and has a skinny tail. A rat is bigger and has a thicker tail. Romans call it Mus Minimus Mus Maximus

First seems to be sharp-nosed, second blunt-nosed and with small feet, but if they're just toys and manufacturer error is likely, goodness only knows. And the artists, maybe.

I have checked your sources and I think you have overrelied on sources that don't really address the issue you have raised with me. I didn't check the other data. In any case I dunno if they are going to help the OP. Neither drawing of the items in question is very anatomically accurate.

Cats are ambush hunters. The fifty fifty isn't the chance of the fight, that's the chance of a meal. The cat physiology includes teeth that are exactly spaced to break just the right spot on the neck of their optimal prey in one pounce-and bite, in this case a mouse or a small rat. This is how all cats from both the large family of cats and the small/medium family of cats do their thing.

Any cat fighting a rat has already kinda lost. Experienced ratters have practiced how to get that good first bite with smaller rats first and know that the chance of a meal is better with a smaller rat even if the rat's no good at fighting.

Sources were for the rat vs mouse physical difference (though the Roman names were more of a fun thing, because you'd hardly be using a Roman to identify a rodent - but I like their naming simplicity. "Big mouse" - "Small mouse", that's it). Just for some outside references besides "feels like", because that's very subjective.

The "lab rat" feels mousey, by feet and head size, but if it's a reference to cartoon rat, then it's a matter of opinion as to what OP trusts more - looks or words.

The "gift rat" feels like a rat kid, from the large paws and snout and small ears, but cats usually bring in mice and then there are hopping mice with giant paws and looking for all the world like little kangaroos, so paws might be misleading, too.

As I said, opinions...

Of cats being rat catchers, I only have the family experience - many cats turn tail from a rat, those who are ferocious enough to try and take on that fight are match enough for the rat's cunning, being not too dumb themselves. Of course, ambush is far preferred to a straight-on bout, but if that fails, a cat can hold its own. Not a guaranteed win, like with a mouse, but not "a rat is too dreadful", either. As food, not worth it, usually. As a "safety for kittens", do-able.

However, since none of the family were publishing any papers on it, so it's not considered proof :D Oh, well...