I've just recently come across this phenomenon that is, as far as I know, in the U.S. and U.K., or something similar in the U.K. anyways. I'm so confused. Does anyone know how all of this stuff started? I've seen some conspiracy videos linked to this and it's just so bizarre. From what I do know, the U.S. ones refer to article 4 of the confederation, which is an obsolete document as it was a draft of the current constitution that we follow and have followed since its completion and signage. Plus it says in that document they are referring to pretty much the opposite of what sovereign citizens believe its says and I don't understand where this all came from!

I've been watching videos about these people on YouTube. I am so confused.

Conspiracy theorists like them are honestly sick... I've read enough stuff and I've known a few people that I have ZERO respect for them. Some are mentally ill so I am more understanding of why they come to the conclusions they come to but plenty are just messed up people (no mental illness, just... warped ideas).

Like I know someone who's watched tons of conspiracy crap. Him and his wife are really messed up in general but they've taught their daughters some crap and when talking to the oldest daughter (my girlfriend's cousin.. so it's really sad to see) more recently she's said stuff like "the moon landing was fake" and things like that. :( It's sick that some of these people have kids and teach them things like this!

There are ACTUAL conspiracies out there but the people that claim they're "sovereign citizens" and can do whatever they want and who deny stuff like the moon landing are just... ugh. I can't stand them. If I'm talking to someone and they start spouting this crap I either tell them they're an idiot or I just walk away because there's no point in debating with them because they are too far gone.

Thank you for responding! I am... well currently I am disabled and had to quit my master's program to get my counseling license, but I do have a bachelor's of science for psychology and I'm always interested in this sort of thing.

It is sad that these people breed. I mean that in not only do they have children, but they then teach said children such things and try to teach other people as well. They are not open to discussion.

I saw someone in a YT video say something like our lives are corporations, and our futures re bought and sold and traded by countries like China. I don't... where do these people get these ideas from??

It's... on one hand it's fascinating to see how relatively mentally normal-abled people have such warped views on life, but at the same time I find it utterly disgusting. I mean I'm all for digging deeper and pondering things but to have such outrageous, out-there beliefs, no, convictions, is utterly bizarre.

I've never met one of these people before so your perspective is fascinating and sad. I mean everyone conforms to one idea or another, yet they also have individual ideas. We're the same yet not.

i never heard of sovereign citizens before but i looked it up and.......... good grief what an absolute trainwreck

usually i don't mind conspiracy theorists when they're just wacky people?? like flat earthers, they might be morons but they aren't exactly hurting anyone haha and they make for good memes but then you get to sovereign citizens and anti-vaxxers and people who deny mass shootings and stuff and it's just really depressing :c

thankfully i have never met conspiracy theorists irl tho :v

I've never met any either, thankfully. It's funny af to see sovereign citizens windows busted because they won't answer a simple question or talk with anyone. It's more like they're following something they read online and never actually read the confederate articles.

Here is the link to what I've heard these people recite, and when you read it like any normal person, you can clearly see:

Plain as day, right there.

Yeah, it makes me SO sad that these people I know are passing on their really messed up views to their kids. :( My girlfriend's cousin used to be more critical of her parents' thinking but she's kinda buying into some of it now and it's making us sad.

Man... yeah, that's really messed up that they think China like... buys our lives or whatever. Wtf even? The sad thing is a lot of conspiracies are based on some facts so it's like... they'll use them to "prove" that what they believe is true so it's even harder to convince them that they're delusional because they'll pull out facts and make it seem like you're crazy for denying them (though you're really denying the conclusions they've come to based on the facts but yeah...).

The people who deny mass shootings are DISGUSTING! Some of them even call or visit the parents of murdered kids and tell them their child didn't exist, or "deserved" what happened to them, or accusing the family of being actors in a "false flag operation" and all that. Those people should get hit by a bus.

And the anti-vaxxers... oh boy so I LOATHE them! Not only are they bringing back diseases that we used to be immune to but they're putting more than just their poor children at risk! So many people who are chronically ill rely on herd immunity to stay safe and they're deliberately spreading these diseases. Honestly, I think if a parent doesn't get their kid vaccinated their kid should be taken away from them because they're unfit parents. I'm 110% done with the, "It's my parenting style! I have freedom! I can do what I want with my kid!" NO! That's another LIVING BEING + they're putting others at risk! It's disgusting.

Also they would literally rather their child die from a preventable disease than for them to be autistic, as if being autistic is the worst thing in the world. I can say first hand that it is NOT the worst thing, even for severe cases. If you choose to have a child you'd better be prepared to take care of them whether they're healthy or not, autistic or allistic, etc. I also hate the parents that basically demand recognition for their "struggles" too (whether they're actually struggling or not) because they say terrible things in front of their own children about how they're "burdens", "demons", etc. I used to get that ALL THE TIME from my own mother and I can say that it destroys you emotionally. Honestly "autism moms" are the worst. Obviously not every mother of an autistic child is like this, but "autism moms" is a specific kind of mother who makes their autistic child feel terrible about themselves and tells everyone she's basically a saint for putting up with her own child... I've had some harsh words for these people in the past and I will never regret it lol

ALSO ALSO ALSO on this topic the Autism Speaks group needs to burn in a fire. They are anti-vax, claim autism is a "disease" that can be "cured" (they think it SHOULD be "cured"), they don't give money to people with autism who need it but put donations into research to prevent and "cure" autism and they also say the most terrible things about people with autism. Some of the "autism moms" will parade their kid(s) out for commercials and talk about how their autistic children are ruining their lives. I feel SO BAD for those kids and I hope they get removed from their parents because that is ABUSE.

edit: Also adding because I forgot to say this that VACCINES DO NOT CAUSE AUTISM! The ONE study linking them was THROWN OUT because the guy responsible for it FAKED HIS RESEARCH! There is NO LINK! NONE! But, even if they WERE linked, if you'd rather your child + others die than be autistic you're garbage. Just wanted to add this because if any anti-vaxxers pop into this thread (I've seen a LOT more around the web lately... the whole thing with Kat Von D has made some of them more confident in speaking out as well) they need to know that they're garbage. There aren't opinions on this, this isn't a debate, it's just plain simple science that vaccines DO NOT cause autism and it's also true that anyone who would rather their child die than be autistic is evil.

So... yeah, anti-vaxxers and "false flag" people should be shot into space.

oh wow, i'm so sorry you had to go through that with your mum! ;; any parents who make their children feel like burdens are dreadful

i can't talk about the u.s. but in italy they used to be super strict about vaccines like my mum told me that when i was like 3 i was legally still living with my grandparents in italy, but i was actually with her in germany anyway as soon as i hit the age when i was supposed to have a certain vaccine the police literally showed up at my grandparents' flat to ask why i hadn't gotten said vaccine, and my mum had to rush to fax them my vaccination records from germany haha

now they aren't as strict and lo and behold, measles and whooping cough are back ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ and for some reason vaccines have become a political thing?? like...... mate science is science lmao not believing in it isn't gonna change facts

i find the "it's my right to not vaccinate my child" argument to be such garbage... your child isn't consenting to die young and from something that's easily preventable, and other people who rely on herd immunity aren't consenting to be put in danger either

but god yes, those who deny mass shootings are disgusting like honestly people are free to believe what they want no matter how outlandish, but harassing those who lost dear ones in tragedies? don't they have at least some shred of sympathy?

Oh wow, that sounds super stressful but so good at the same time that they were so strict at the time. It's honestly scary seeing so many diseases coming back because of anti-vaxxers. The "it's my right to not vaccinate my child" IS utter bull because herd immunity is hugely important and kids can't legally make their own decisions. It's like the parents who believe in "alternative medicine" or "faith healing" and let their kids die from something that can be easily fixed with proper medicine. I also know some anti-medicine types ("You shouldn't be taking pills for your chronic illness! It's caused by NEGATIVE ENERGY so you just need reiki!") and I just CANNOT stand them and I honestly just completely dismiss people if they have anti-medicine opinions. I've yet to meet a single one who has a valid reason for being anti-medicine. There are some valid reasons IN SOME CASES but most are completely anti-medicine and anti-science so... nah, why respect such people when they show no respect to anyone else? I've heard some of the most vile shit from these types such as "people who have diseases WANT to be sick" and they get mad if you don't believe their bs so I have NO patience for them. They can paint me as the asshole all they like but I'm not the one trying to set humanity back 1000 years. ¯(ツ)/¯

Anti-vaxxers, don't even get me started. I don't want to acknowledge that other group. Common sense (and empathy) is apparently in short supply.

Also I've found similar people to sovereign citizens in the U.K., I'm not sure if anyone else knows what I'm talking about, but I wonder if they are similar in bringing up obsolete laws or what? Like this one chick says she hasn't paid taxes for a while and this is why.

i did some research and it appears freemen on the land are the british equivalent of sovereign citizens? (another article here, rationalwiki entry here) apparently they are known for trying to claim "ancient rights" and idk something to do with the magna carta? these people are a riot lmao

Ancient rights? Wtf is even... I wasn't aware there were many ancient rights during the Magna Carta era; in fact, that's why the king was forced to sign it, so that people would have more rights and the king wouldn't have single, absolute authority. I mean later the king said 'fuck that shit I'mma do what I want anyways' or something like that. That's the gist of what I remember.

I don't know where people come up with this stuff! Anything to avoid responsibility it seems!