Possible new thing for SBL
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On another note -- I sent this message to Georgie on Friday, and she&;s asked me to bring it here. Short version: I&;d like to convert some of the more commonly-used Item Notes in a way that can be searched/filtered more easily. This would be a big undertaking and would require some code changes as well.</p>
<p>
Scissorcrow&;s comment ("Would it be possible for the Genetech Lab to be listed as a restock location in the collections?") prompted me to go ahead and bring this up:</p>
<p>We&;re using Item notes for lots of things -- Genetech Combos, Tempest Items, items with use options, items that can transform, monthly collection items, Cash Shop Bonus weekend items, old Trivia prizes, etc. -- and these things are not always easy to search for (and you can&;t search item notes at all from the collections page).</p>
<p>What I&;d like to propose -- this would be a pretty big undertaking, and Jon would definitely need to be in on it -- is to help structure the free-form item notes into a set of sortable, searchable tags. (Similar to how we tag minions, but not necessarily the same interface.) This would involve either adding a new table for the tags or adding a new set field to the existing item table; writing an item admin interface to manage these tags; writing a user interface to search existing collections and/or create new collections based on these tags; then finally, converting item notes into tags where appropriate. I can help with any of these tasks.
<p>I think if we&;re going to do all that work (which I don&;t have a problem with), we should really examine the situation more closely.</p>
<p>Of what use are the notes? Why do you use them, if you do, and to what use do our users put them to?</p>
<p>Personally, I use them to create custom lists for the most part. For events in particular, like collecting all the Morostide items.</p>
<p>The other major use is to find out where something comes from before I spend millions in a user shop.</p>
<p>One way I&;d like to use them is to figure out why I have an item wishlisted. Example, I get an item from some source and it has that handy dandy wishlist box around it. I realize it must be for a recipe - but is it genetech, spell, alchove, baking, part of a set of items I need for an achievement? At times it can be really tough figuring out why I want a particular item.
Here is on thing to consider... Doing this would not mean we would stop item notes. It would not be either/or. We have too many things in place that depend on item notes now; like inputting the sbq lines and delish lines. And think of the custom lists users have made for the past 6 years because we told them that was the way to do it. To suddenly have them stop updating would cause more of an outrage than the decoy fruit.
I like this idea very much, it can be very useful!
I would like to add something, if we keep the notes, what about adding a "history note" for items that are no longer in X place anymore but we still keep the traces of this item but this time the history note will not show up in a search result.
Oooh, good call. That is an issue -- I definitely want to preserve backwards compatibility! I am concerned that the more content we stuff into item notes, the more 'false positives' we'll get when people try to use them. We're lucky so far that none of the Genetech combos include monthly collection items, or (say) the Ikumoradeekanox Trading Card -- because the way we list them would cause those items to show up for searches where they weren't necessary wanted.
Coming up with a more compartmentalized system than the free-form text slushpile that the item notes currently are would be a precaution against that sort of thing happening in the future. I agree that we'd have to continue updating item notes where existing custom lists are involved.
Unless we just pull a fast one, like Subeta did with the shop system. Give everyone a month notice that their custom checklists will no longer work as we implement a new system. Everyone was angry when it was announced and again when it actually happened, but no one I know actually left over the whole thing.
: Let's aspire to be better than Subeta in that regard. I'd rather support existing checklists -- but if it turns out there's a simple way to seamlessly convert them so they update based on tags instead of item notes, so there's no burden on the user at all, I'd consider that.
So if we were to go ahead with this project, what all would be involved?
I'll give you a fuller answer of what I imagine might be possible tomorrow. (This week was midterms at work, and I've been pretty busy the past few days -- thanks to everyone for picking up my slack.)
Check out this page for a hypothetical (and nonfunctioning!) mockup of how this might look in the end.
The initial coding changes I envision are something like this:
- A new page of tags with standard boilerplate text for each tag -- this'll make standardization much easier.
- A new field on the Edit Item page that allows tag-based item notes with an optional comment field for each tag to fill in specific details.
- A slight revamp to the View Item page that displays tag-based item notes in a standard format.
- The ability to create new custom checklists based on tags.
- Inventory item-notes-based checklists to identify the set of item notes which are actually being used for this purpose.
The workflow changes I envision are something like this:
- New features use the (cleaner?) tag system exclusively.
- New items fitting existing item notes categories are tagged and given appropriate legacy item notes so that existing custom checklists will remain updated.
- Existing items will be tagged as time permits -- I'm guessing at least a year for this!
Once existing items are tagged, I envision one more set of code changes:
- Convert item-notes-based checklists (which we inventoried earlier) to tag-based checklists.
- Phase out use of legacy item notes.
Not thrilled with the tag box. If we really want to encourage/ensure consistency, the less typing the better. Would be much easier to enter something like this:
Dropdown list of tags^ Empty box for date/achievement/opponent etc. Add another tag +
Also when I've worked with databases in the past you could autofill a field based on another field, so we enter the tag "freegift" it would automatically fill in the date in the field attached to it. Of course I don't know if that's possible in the SubetaLodge database.
In loving memory of Need posting achievements?Then join Posting Frenzy Achievement Items - searchable list List of Borders and cutouts New at Fresh and Flavorful Ping Group
We should probably make a list of the possible tags we would want to use as well as the information that would go along with it. I really like Lypsyl's idea of the dropdown list of tags with an empty box next to it that we could fill in as needed.
Possible tags (extra information) Baking (Items needed with links) Battle Loot (Opponent, release date) Blackheart Hollow (Release date) Cash Shop (Release date, any other special information) Dailies (Location you can find the item with a link - This would be things like Ikumoradeekanox, Cave Fishing, Island Fishing, Random Game, Bug Catching, Ice Fields, Crypts, etc. - Basically things you can find that don't actually "restock".) Free Gift (Release date) Genetech (Items needed with links) Holiday Items (Seasonal event name such as Morostide, year) Plot Prize (Name of plot, rough date such as summer 2016) Spells (Items needed with links) Subeautique (Designer line name linked to display all items in that line) Token Shop (Release date) Transformable (Items transformable into and from, with links)
<p>Dropdown list of tags^ Empty box for date/achievement/opponent etc.
Add another tag +
Heh. Fair enough. As my eyesight gets worse, I'd rather type than rely on the mouse pointer -- so checkboxes and drop-downs are usually less productive for me. My other concern with drop-downs is that they can get filled with very infrequently-used options that slow people down (for example, the drop-down for "Restock Location" on the current edit items screen) includes a lot of locations that are only open for special events, like the Peka-Boo food vendors.
But it should realistically be possible to create some Javascript to accommodate both interfaces -- by using a drop-down list to build a list of tags, which is then editable by hand. (That would also make possible your other idea of having the date autofill for free gifts and token shop items. Jon could say better than I could whether this would be a medium-sized job or a major overhaul.
well all the drop-downs on SubetaLodge can be accessed with keyboard - you can type "m" in the location drop-down and it takes you to the first occurrence of M (agic box) and keep hitting m to cycle through all the options. So, in a sense you already have both options. And consistency!
In loving memory of Need posting achievements?Then join Posting Frenzy Achievement Items - searchable list List of Borders and cutouts New at Fresh and Flavorful Ping Group
This would involve either adding a new table for the tags or adding a new set field to the existing item table; writing an item admin interface to manage these tags; writing a user interface to search existing collections and/or create new collections based on these tags.
Pretty much covered the technical portion of it here, nice overview! I will look into how I think can best/cleanly implement this. Afterwards, I can work with if they are up for it. It is very doable, just how quickly it can be done is another thing...
Jon is asking me
I have no idea. I can't even think what they might be. Maybe I am not fully grasping the difference between this and item notes. Anyone, someone answer him? Please? :D
Jon is asking me
I have no idea. I can't even think what they might be. Maybe I am not fully grasping the difference between this and item notes. Anyone, someone answer him? Please? :D
Jon is asking me
I have no idea. I can't even think what they might be. Maybe I am not fully grasping the difference between this and item notes. Anyone, someone answer him? Please? :D
Jon is asking me
I have no idea. I can't even think what they might be. Maybe I am not fully grasping the difference between this and item notes. Anyone, someone answer him? Please? :D
Jon is asking me
I have no idea. I can't even think what they might be. Maybe I am not fully grasping the difference between this and item notes. Anyone, someone answer him? Please? :D