I noticed there's an option to unsex pets but what about the option for both? The majority of plants have both sets of genitalia. Breeders prefer dual-sexed plants over their monosexed counterparts, for money and time conscious reasons, and the ease of maintaining asexually reproductive crops.

For relevance, this is for Uviferous my Glade Warador in the making.
uviferous adj 1656 -1656 bearing grapes or vines

edit: I meant to spell that as Hermaphrodite >< and for this to go under pets...

Yeah this could neat. I guess I never really thought about it.

lol thanks, I was looking for a button and overlooked the underline.

^^

I admit I never really thought about this either. This could be interesting for story purposes though.

I made a similar suggestion years ago. I still support this idea. However I would rather call this gender intersex, as it sounds more tasteful imo.

idk if you know this but "hermaphrodite" is actually a derogatory term when applied to people, and is not even scientifically accurate. it's fine when talking about, like, snails or clams or whatever, but for humans it's a highly offensive term to use. and while pets are "technically" animals or other non-human organisms, they are generally considered as having human-like sentience so i think it would be inappropriate to use that terminology.

the other thing is that "intersex" does not mean the same thing as "both male and female." it's a medical condition and intersex people will still typically identify as male, female, neither, both, something else entirely... so it's not a gender descriptor, it's a descriptor of a physical condition. it's also surrounded by a lot of abuse and trauma for intersex individuals (forced surgery, nonconsensual genital examinations, social stigma and ostracization, etc). so this idea kind of feels... in poor taste.

now, as for pets that are both male and female at once... i'm not sure. we already have a neutral gender option which kind of allows you to project whatever you want onto the pet - whether you interpret it as having no gender, or having more than one, or being genderfluid, or whatever. so it doesn't really seem necessary?

Intersexual pets? Well, we've already got neutral-gendered pets, so I don't know if it's necessary. I'm not against intersexualism, but I guess being neutral-gendered is kinda the same thing as being intersexual - or is it? 😕

I'm aware that hermaphrodite isn't the best word to use, hence why I suggested intersex instead. However, if that also doesn't mean "male and female", what would you suggest? (This isn't meant to be defensive; I do have a character that's both sexes and I currently refer to them as intersex, but would like a better term to refer to them with if there's one out there!)

You said everything I came here to say lol

Also, yeah, I'm going to veto this. We already have the gender neutral option and I think using that and just citing the character as bigender/gender fluid is the best way to go (and the least likely to bother anyone)

i guess bigender would be an accurate term for a character that is male and female at once, but there seems to be some ambiguity here regarding the difference between "gender" and "sex" which is... more than i want to get into on a site about cartoon animals.

I agree wth pretty much everything is saying. Specifying sex organs seems unnecessary, especially considering that subeta pets are identified with genders, not sex. I'd just use the genderless berry and specify on their individual profiles what their gender is.

I agree with everything said. I was going to write more, but I realized they already said it, so I'd just be copying it.

I think maybe the "sex berry" should be renamed to "gender berry" to make it consistent with the genderless berry. Especially because, yeah, these are cartoon animals. I don't really think that Subeta itself needs to concern itself with the physical reproductive systems of the pets, so it's better if it just sticks to gender representations. If people want to write other stuff on their pet page, that's up to them.

One thing that might be cool is a Genderfull Berry, that makes the gender icon a little rainbow circle instead of the blank one. To me the Genderless Berry kinda implies the pet is agender, both from the name and the icon. The Genderfull Berry could maybe imply the pet is bigender, genderfluid, genderqueer, etc. I mean, yes, we can use the Genderless Berry for those identities too, but it might be kinda cool.

I don't think we need anything more specific than that, though, especially because our pages don't have to say male/female/genderless in words, but just display the icon. I definitely don't support anything to describe reproductive anatomy - from what I can tell, our pets don't have any, lol.

You're right, the term slipped from my mind while posting. For the latter, I don't what my intersex pet to be displayed genderless (nongender) as that symbol is meant for anatomically sexless-intersex. It is the neutered symbol.

I'm being very literal with the sex symbols for their sex (physical traits), not to be confused with gender or sexuality. I'd like that option to be available because genderless is the wrong label. It is my pet's sex, not the sexalphabetualities, and intersex is intersectional because it's both sex and gendering.

There are intersex people born without either genitalia. There are intersex people with both, hence my specificity with bigender vs intersex with [at least one underdevelopment,] yes parents of [both are brought up surgical questions] to “make the genitals look normal” without their own consent. Not every intersex = transgender, likewise non-intersex transgenders exist.] Please don't interpret this as prying or exploitative. I won't interpret Subeta as prying for identifying the sex of our pet by our choices since implementing o symbol is a sign of progression. It's the human species that shames anatomy and culture that sexualizes (objectifies) nudity -- hermaphrodites (bigenders) is only bad if you're referring to the [outdated Victorian idea that hermaphrodites were the only intersexuals]. The o symbol erases bigender(sexing) visibility. It's like color or gender blindness to think we're done adding/defining sexes.

The o is incorrect anyway if you refer to: http://nonbinary.org/wiki/Gender_symbols ^ i found my botany answer here too. Subeta played it very safe with o - symbol, I just find that very lacking as an identifier because it's a useless umbrella symbol if the user didn't specify their pet gender in their description it restricts IDs [beyond the ambiguity of the Barbie and Ken identifier which is NOT covered].

[Quote: ambiguity here regarding the difference between "gender" and "sex"] They're gender-sex symbols, not sex-gender symbols, meaning logically they serve Sex ID first. It's like crayons, yellow-orange implies the base is orange. Think of every legal form you've filed -- they wanted bios/ sex ID, and regarded sexual/gender orientation as private... Also I never mentioned using symbol for gender in OP ouo; we already got into it xD

People have been pushing to get 'sex' removed from subeta HA, profiles, and pets already. Because gender is what's displayed, not sex. If your pet is intersex, then they still would identify as a gender and that's the symbol you should be using. The gender symbol, not the sex symbol.

From what I can tell, Subeta is only trying to represent the gender identity of the pet with the icons, not their anatomy. IMO the "sex berry" should be renamed the "gender berry" to be consistent with the genderless berry. I don't even see any genitals on my Subeta pets, and some of them are positioned in ways that would show them if they were there. It's not a matter of shaming anatomy or oversexualizing nudity, it's just that Subeta pets don't even seem to have that anatomy.

If your character does, and you find it important to talk about the genitals/reproductive system of your pet, nothing is stopping you from doing that, and putting whatever symbols you want on your pet profiles. But from what I can tell, it's not Subeta "canon" that our pets even have typical reproductive systems. Therefore, I don't see any need for there to be official ways to represent them.

Our pets are generally more like humans than animals - a lot of people use them to represent human characters, even. So to me it is kind of prying to encourage us to represent their reproductive system/genitals. If someone was to make a trans character and go out of their way to talk about their "physical sex," especially if Subeta endorsed it with a detailed "physical sex" representation system... that'd make me really uncomfortable, as a trans man. It reinforces the idea that our genitals define who we "really" are - or worse, that the genitals we were born with will always represent who we "really" are - and that people should feel free to ask us personal questions about our genitals.

One of my pets is a trans woman. Her icon is the female one, and I would never make it anything else, even if I believed the icons were to represent genitals. Sure, she's a Jollin, and Jollins don't even wear clothes, but I mean - I'm not gonna make her genitals public information. I don't even think about what they might be. That's not because I'm horrified by genitals. But genitals are private and personal for humans, and therefore they also feel that way for my Subeta pets, who I see more like humans.

Private and personal isn't the same as shameful or inherently sexual. It's just that someone's genitals aren't the general public's business, unless a person chooses to make them that way. It might be hard to understand that if you aren't trans and/or intersex yourself. For trans and/or intersex people, our genitals do get treated like public business when we don't want them to be. People think they can ask us about them, when they'd never do that to someone who was cis and non-intersex. It's very upsetting and violating - even more so for intersex people, who have likely been subjected to horribly invasive non-consensual medical procedures and examinations.

"Hermaphrodite" is still a slur. Sorry, you can't make it okay by saying "well it's was just inaccurate because intersex people don't actually have two sets of genitals, it's alright if it's accurate and the person actually has both male and female genitals." No. It's a slur. Unless you're talking about snails or plants. And I mean actual snails and plants, not a plant pet with a human-type personality.

1. Can you change that to intersex, please.

2. Full support in changing the sex berry to gender berry.

3. I want to support the idea of a Fluid Berry, for gender fluid characters, but the way this has been handled is a bit unsettling.

I'm all for a genderfull berry with a rainbow circle (opposed to grayed out circle on genderless). Intersex, and distinctions between sex and gender identity, etc, is important but I feel that a pet site isn't the place to do this...

when whomever applies:

[Quote] "sex berry" should be renamed to "gender berry" to make it consistent with the genderless berry[/quote]

Can say the opposite /since you're granted your sex, not your gender./ @ Character-wise Uviferous is a dually fertile asexual.

[Quote] People have been pushing to get 'sex' removed from subeta. [/quote] They don't want identifiers to be available because only they find no use for them. ...Surely if you don't like your pet's sex shown they could implement a hide or 'prefer not to say' sex/gender thing before destroying the option for everyone else.

[Quote] just citing the character as bigender/gender fluid is the best way to go (and the least likely to bother anyone)[/quote]

citing was always an option, whatever I assign my pet should not be bothering people.
Pushing to get sex id removed is still a form of identity erasure/ denial. The sex option to ID is objective (external), not opinion(internal) as gendering is. Gender is part of story telling, sex is your starting canvas and doesn't care.

[Quote] I don't even see any genitals on my Subeta pets[/quote]

• well it's not really appropriate to go looking for them
• you can be nude and still not have genitalia exposed given poses, body hair... if you haven't noticed Warador and Harvester are dressed
• You're equating not seeing something to absence.

Please acknowledge not every I-T is offended by sex definitive expressions for their I-T id. Some intersex people identify as neither men or women, both men and women, or both. They may express this with the terms, “non-binary Intersex people”, “herms”, “genderqueer”, “gender fluid” and other non-binary gender identities, or, simply, “intersex”. It's cool to claiming your own invisibility amongst said variety within I-T but it's not cool to demand nullification of above choices for everyone else, that's just silencing. I'm frustrated with the options right now because apart from M & F allowed to be definitive everyone else is lumped with the o symbol/ under umbrella terms which leads to further mis-id, only clarifying in story. People don't ID their pets in spite of how other people self-identify or proclaim their experiences as group id-exclusive -- you don't have to be I-T to experience bodily invasive protocol. I doubt being open about my pet's intersex would lead to such a thing. And it's counterintuitive when the abbrevbetisexual community is always deciding for someone else what terminology to get offended over when it's just personal and does not take into account context.

The site has and updated because people asked for more options, the response to 'remove sex' is ungrateful towards update especially when it takes from everybody due to a few people's own personal issues. Why are people being extremists against any viable options?

[Quote]It reinforces the idea that our genitals define who we "really" are - or worse, that the genitals we were born with will always represent who we "really" are[/quote] Projection. Obviously sex and gender are different and this is backpedaling away from +options. You're putting personal fear from a real life context and narrowing what Subeta could be with it.

I'm not deterred from +options, maybe include a visibility feature for said labels to avoid "offending" spectators and pet owners.