@ Sai @ Kid @ Jay

So I heard you like art cultswink wink I am thinking of making one :D

What I need: Active members An awesome cult name Great ideas for what to do in the cult Awesomeness sauce

Ideas(Thank you everyone!): -secret santa and maybe summer secrets too -constructive criticism events -Weekly doodle/art block prompts/challenges -monthly palette prompt -Art-trades-open board (where people can find others who are looking for art trades) -Looking For:collabs board -tutorials -crits-for-trade board -monthly show-n-tell board

But really..I'd like ideas on what to do in the cult..like maybe have a once every two weeks art contest. A forum to give support to other artists. Have an art fair like event each some odd months. Idk, the possibilities are endless:D What are some of your guys ideas? Don't be shy:) Anyone is welcome to chime in with ideas! Even if I didn't ping you and you just happened to come across this thread by mistakecx Also Ping friends if you think they might be interested! Thanks~

Pinging other people who might be interested(or if you didn't want the ping just:):@ Draviel @ Kraze @ jellophish @ ren @ Livina @ Shilimer @ Pretty @ Yako @ oolong @ lunarwolf9 @ ThumperBunny @ Heart @ Cherri @ Slerian @ Blazhy @ Krelian @ Minevra @ dotty @ Ashlee @ Izzy @ bruxee

I'd be interested. I need a reason to be more active here again!

• secret santa where we post which characters we'd want drawn and then we each get secretly assigned a person to draw for.

• constructive criticism events where we submit 1 piece of art to the board that everyone compliments and tries to help make it better with suggestions. honestly the only way to grow as an artist is to be able to receive CC so people who are sensitive probably shouldn't sign up for this. just know your art can suffer without the input of other artists!

• Prompts. Maybe subeta related ones? Such as: "What is the Wizard doing in his free time?" and we can all draw the wizard doing random activities we think he'd be doing in the world of subeta!

maybe any of you would be interested =w=

Thank you so much for your ideas! ^^ I like them all so much; u;

secret santa sounds fun v

I'm in if we can get enough interest!

Also, in addition to critique, I'd like to see weekly themed challenges or tutorials, ex. " hand anatomy" or "colour theory" or "Art Nouveau" where we challenge ourselves to do a drawing or two based on the theme, and where we can post tutorials or helpful hints and tips.

I 'd also love doing collabs with other artists, so maybe that could be a thing for those who are interested?

And of course, a way to commission other cult members so that we can support one another ( I remember in AG, most cult members would create one or two separate slots for cult members in their regular commission boards, or else have a cult board dedicated to commissions).

Anyway, just some ideas!

lol apologies for wall of text

I'm interested to see how this might develop. I know there have been at least 2 big art cults in the past. However I'm not entirely sure of why or how they broke up, but anyway I have a few pointers to put out since I have also seen/been in cults that continue to stick around.

} Make sure that not doing events isn't punishing. People have real lives outside of Subeta and the Internet, and things happen, life changes. } However, do make sure that participating is actually rewarding. If they weren't, why would anyone stay with the group? }} - related, also make sure that participating doesn't punish anyone either! That sentence might sound strange, I know. For example, I would avoid art contests. Contests don't equally reward everyone for their participation, and since art is subjective and people are at all ranges of experience, you shouldn't funnel all glory/etc to a few people, even if the whole cult voted on entries.

I do also have some idea of why the art cults in the past broke up. Art is a touchy subject. People like getting crits and making crits [improve and so forth], but writing good crits is actually a skill. Teaching this skill to the group (or like as a requirement for joining, write a critique as part of the application) would be very very important. You don't want to accept anyone willy nilly and have them piss off everyone. That's really easy to start drama that way. Personally I would be rejection-happy (if crit skills was tested as part of the application process), and just explain to them that they are free to apply again if they work on their crit skills. An art cult is a community, not just a bunch of artists wanting to do art things together, so if you're interested in actually running a cult you need to be prepared to guard against things that will decay and crumble the group from the inside out - little kindlings of drama.

Leadership in active groups on Sub is very important too. If you have an admin running an event either spewing drama, making fussy demands, or refusing to step in when members pick on each other, you're going to have problems and the group participation is likely to suffer. However, you can have good leaders, but if they're not around often around to represent the leadership of the group, that will also be a problem. How the leaders present themselves is also pretty important. I don't doubt that you're a cool person, but you don't have anything up about yourself on your user profile -- and it's rather blank so it doesn't make me feel that you're a very involved Subeta user. I'm sorry if it comes off offensive or anything, this is just my personal impression of users without much customization of their user and pet profiles - that they don't play Subeta much. It's not a bad thing - not everyone has been on Sub forever, or has the time of day to play it and customizing their profiles isn't on the top of their list for when they play. It's just that this kind of impression is probably not good for a leader of an active group, if that leader is interested in keeping the group active and growing [in members]. Anyway, I'm not sure if you're looking to create and lead this cult, but I did want to point it out since nobody has said anything about cult organization and leadership yet... (idk, I feel like even having a single link to where you post your art online would be much better than nothing)

I know people get excited about groups doing things together, but I think it is a mistake is to have events constantly. And jesus, especially for art. Some people are "fast" artists, but others (like me, I digitally paint), I take forever. And since art isn't my job [currently], I only do it when I feel like it. If you're pommelling the group with like 4 events every week, I'm going to get really tired of it and leave. I can't make that much art for one group, and I don't want to.

example of events that are regular and don't feel like they are required: Weekly doodle/art block prompts, monthly palette prompt, art-trades-open board (where people can find others who are looking for art trades), LookingFor:collabs board, crits-for-trade board, monthly show-n-tell board Things I might stay away from: encouraging people to post their own threads asking for redlines/crits [users may get really irritated that certain other users are constantly harping with some know-it-all attitude, regardless of their tone in their responses - I'd say it's good to not encourage that kind of drama to start rather than let it happen and clean up after it every. fucking. time]; "post your favorite artist/art style" discussion boards - you might not realize it but there are people out there who may get really agitated about this kind of thing. Sometimes, mentioning certain artists (or like, "famous" artists on the internet) might start a heated debate. I'm not a fan of censorship, but I'm also not a fan of positive comments only all the time every time - personally I would just avoid a shit flinging fest altogether - if you must have this kind of board, make it a rule to not discuss artists you like, but just a share-and-discover board.

Oh, and note, you should make it clear that you're making a [digital? traditional? visual-only?] art cult. Some people may have issues with labeling [writing poetry performance etc etc] things as "not art".

you are an angel ❤

Thank you for the ping! Will not join as I am super bad at being part of groups and cults. Like I always have a ghost status in them.

@ Chen Thank you for your input a lot! Ummm..well its blank because I have been a little busy with homework. I'm planning on drawing it all for the most part. Thank you for the ideas on what to have in it. I just have one question...It's about the critiquing.. It's just..how do you judge if someone has enough skills to be in as you say. There are many different ways to critique art. I didn't know there was a wrong way to do it? Could you give more clarification into this please and thank you~

thank you for the ideas!; u;

From my past experience in an art cult, there weren't really any problems with crits. I don't know if it's just because we had a good group of mature users, but no one got defensive or butthurt about how crits were given, and we were all pretty sensitive about posting harsh feedback. I think when it's an open forum where ANYONE can contribute it can be risky to ask for judgement, but in a small group of like-minded individuals who all have the same goal, insensitive critique is less likely to happen. I personally like the idea of each user being able to start a thread (assuming an offsite forum) for a particular piece, where anyone can chime in. BUT, the OP can establish any ground rules in their post - i.e. "please only criticize anatomy" or, "please help with this specific thing", if they're sensitive about other aspects being criticized.

I'd also like to chime in that while I think an app is a good idea, I wouldn't feel comfortable with only letting in users who are already skilled. I think the point would be to teach, support, and inspire one another, so I personally think the measure for members should be how dedicated they are as artists versus how good they are. I remember in AG they were pretty strict about only letting in the "good" artists, and while it made for better crits and discussion, I also felt bad that the users who could really benefit from that weren't around to see it.

I agree with Jay. I think that it depends on which direction you want to go with an art group. It'd be best if people had to ask for critiques instead of it just being given them. It could also be great for the artist to ask for opinions on one specific thing like Jay mentioned. Critiques don't have to be full of drama and in my experience they rarely are. You could even have people take turns critiquing so the same people aren't always the ones dealing criticism.

I do think that there should be SOME standard in the skill level required to join. Having a scanner to scan in traditional work is one. Or at the very least proper lighting techniques should be required. We could even link tutorials.

I think the group should have a focus on the type of artists it accepts. If someone who does sculpture asks for a critique from a bunch of digital artists then they're not going to receive much help outside of basic observations. Most of us wouldn't have a clue on how to make suggestions because we don't do sculpture and aren't familiar with the proper processes.

I agree there should be links to tutorials. I am really not sure about having people have to be required to know certain skills before joining. We all started somewhere. That much is true. I just think it would be sad to deny some people starting out the opportunity to become part of what is looking to be a really awesome cult!

Ahhh alright~ then I probably won't be too interested in joining just as a personal preference! I think having a minimum requirement is necessary for an art cult. If people really want to join then they'll have to push themselves to meet small standards. It's not really asking for much in my opinion.

@ ren thank you for your interest:)

I agree with Ren that some standards should be put in place. I wasn't saying that literally anyone can join, but it shouldn't ONLY be for staff-level artists or artists considered to be top calibre. I think submitting a portfolio should be part of the application, and it should be judged - but if a user shows promise and dedication, then a lack of technique shouldn't deter their application.

I'm kind of with Ren in that I wouldn't want to join an art cult that accepts everyone regardless of ability, because then how helpful is it really to those with a more evolved skill set? No offense to anyone, but I'd only take advice from someone whose work I admire and who shows a solid knowledge of the subject matter.

thank you for your interests.

Ah, yea that's fine. You seem to be active here (as far as forum posts goes haha), I was mostly wondering out loud about a few concerns. Again, sorry if it was a touchy subject.

I meant mostly in establishing rules to only crit if crit was requested, and making sure that somebody's idea of critique isn't just only "your anatomy looks awful here" or "your choice of colors is gaudy and x [not explaining value, contrast, or other color theory things]" - obviously that's just lazy and rude, but I think it would be good to screen for that. I don't think the bar for critique needs to be very high, but if you give somebody a prompt and they want to harp about something that is the least relevant (like, not asked for, or only giving a redline) or is lazy/rude in their critique, then you should probably reject and ask they improve crit skills before reapplying. In the application area you can post or link to a guide on how to give good critique (commonly: something like compliment+where to improve+summary/compliment). But yea, again I'm not sure where the previous art groups fell apart, it might have just been decline in participation and leaders not having time for it anymore. There just seems to be a consistent amount of drama among users (and even some artists, particularly one who has been iced and I think I'm not supposed to name) on this site so I felt it would be an important issue to worry about.

In applications I didn't mention that you should only accept people who have a high level of skill, that seems unproductive in gaining members for an art group if part of the goals of the group is to self-improve (which everyone at any level can use as a goal) -- I just didn't know that was something AG screened for. To be fair I do agree with , I still think that some minimal level of skill should be required - not in form, but mostly in know-how of how to put their art on the internet and stuff that makes it easier for other members to look at their stuff or for them to participate in cult events.

--- edit hmmm I was in AG at one point but I looked around the off site forums (well, there's no need for those now if you create the cult now), and it didn't really appeal to me, as I felt a lil overwhelmed and shy to immediately just post and join when I didn't know anyone. [new members intro and welcome would help with that] I can't remember if it was AG or another cult, but I think there might have been an off-site forum posting participation requirement??? and if you didn't meet it you got kicked out??? that seems like it might be like "oh yea we make sure people are active" but I feel that would turn people [casuals like me] away.

As someone who was in the first incarnation of AG and saw it fall apart, I can mostly say that the reason it didn't last was because leaders would play favorites and that would turn off a lot of users. They would defend some in chats but not others, and take sides, etc. So when members started leaving because of it, they couldn't find any to replace them because their requirements to join were too strict for beginner artists.

There were also leaders within in (one of my friends actually who wants to recreate an art guild but idk when she plans on it. she wants to restablish herself in sub first since she's been on hiatus for a while - maybe if this happens, you could approach her for ideas/leadership position/i'm totally not whoring her out right now, haha) who were completely unbiased as they should be. But because other leaders played favorites, people got upset when they became friends with her and she still had to warn them/get them in trouble/etc. When it comes to leading something, you have to make sure that every member of your leading team is on the EXACT same page.