The suggestion is that Keith starts a topic about it.

I'll add my two cents on here already. In case Keith doesn't make a topic about it.

Getting people to join

• Use subeta's strong points: frequent events, reachable staff, amazing pet art, freedom with character creation, loyal userbase and get it out there.

  Neopets is going down faster than a sinking ship. Now is the time! Several of my hardcore Neofriends joined and are sticking around because of these fundamental differences. I took the time to show them art, info from events, my own profile & all my pets, talked with them about how staff listens to user input etc.

Get dedicated users out there to talk to people and not just: here is a link, join. I tried that and it doesn't really work, people sign up and leave pretty quickly because of my next point. It's a matter of targeting the right people, those who are looking for a specific website like Subeta and to give them the motivation to join.

• Get sharing. And not people who just make a fb or a blog just to gain a point in a contest, dead blogs or empty facebooks don't have an audience. You need people with an audience. I know this will piss of people, but sorry... empty blogs don't refer people. Hate running a blog or being social online? Well then this is just not your cup of tea, not much can be done about it.

Getting them to stay

• I referred 53 people officially via my link. 52 of those ran away because the site was too confusing and they needed help with everything on the site because it wasn't pointing itself out. They didn't want to ask help with every single aspect of the site, some gave up within an hour, some tried for a few days. Only 1 stuck around for months and still logs in every now and then. I think it's not only a matter of attracting new members, it's keeping them around.

I know & have been working on adding information everywhere necessary so hopefully this won't be an issue any more in the future.

• We sort of need a buddy system. I've been trying to be the starter buddy of my last few referrals or newbie friends from Neopets because I noticed that no one sticks around unless you feed them constant information the first few days. And I feel like it really helps to explain people how collections work, help them to get their first few stickers, tell them about vending and where to go vend, etc. Hold their hand during the first week or so by explaining them everything and helping with building up their money. Once they start making money and getting nicer pets then they stick around. Encouraging newbies to ask questions = important. Because if they don't dare to ask the questions or don't find answers, they leave.

• Keep a sort of constant stream of active content. I think it's a great idea to have flash HA contests, token shop restocks (no matter how small), new quest shop items, new achievements, etc etc. Activity creates more activity.

Where are dedicated users supposed to go to tell people about subeta? Anyone who got banned from Neopets or who left years ago is unlikely to have any Neopets friends now. Keith mentioned social media in another topic but there are snags to some of them.

1: Twitter. I doubt that any subeta player is a celebrity who attracts thousands of followers. The only followers I'd get are personal friends and family members. Wikipedia says that tweets are publicly visible by default but this still doesn't mean that anyone would bother to read stuff by people they aren't interested in.

2: Blogs. Anyone can run a blog but attracting readers who aren't personal friends and family members is a different matter.

3: I've got a DeviantArt account because I do photography as a hobby. I could make a journal entry there saying that CWs are an artistic outlet for people who can paint. The only snag, of course, is that -

a) It costs real money to submit a CW or -

b) You have to work for months to raise enough sP to buy CSC from other players. Yes, people can earn sP/CSC by creating things like forum sets and overlays etc but this mightn't appeal to new players who want to make wearables.

PS: I think it would be better if Keith started a topic about it in the Brainstorming sub forum.

I stopped even trying to refer people to this site. It was one thing to explain away the bus and lag 5 years ago when the site was fairly new and the management was fairly young. It's been a decade though.

Want to know the best way to attract new members and keep them playing? Make your site function properly. FIX THINGS, don't put band-aids that took 2 hours to code on them and go party with your homies.

My suggestion ties in with what Keith said in this post - http://subeta.net/forums.php/gotopost/56439874

I'm not going to rush out and buy an iPhone or iPad so I can make vines but I know I could start a blog and make a post about Subeta. Only one problem - there's a lot of competition to attract blog readers out there when there are over 200 million blogs on Tumblir alone.

This is why I suggested a brainstorming topic where we can figure out how to use social media to the best advantage.

I don't think the idea was to use tumblr, Twitter, Facebook or whatever to make a bunch of strangers come to the site. Unless I'm mistaken, I think it's more like using those sites to tell your friends and family - the people you know - about Subeta. Then they start playing, maybe like it, maybe refer some friends of theirs, and so on. Kind of a modern word-of-mouth thing.

That's the idea, but...well, I personally stopped referring people because 1) I don't have that many friends, 2) there's not a whole lot here that they would be interested in, and 3) even if there was, many features of the site still don't work properly. It's very hard to enthusiastically recommend anything that you know has major problems, at least it is for me.

It's like having an old car where you have to jiggle the handle to get the passenger door to open, and sometimes the clutch sticks, and occasionally the radiator leaks, and sometimes it just makes some kind of strange noise that neither you nor the local mechanic can identify, and when the temperature drops below 40 degrees F it doesn't want to start at all. You know all the idiosyncrasies the car has and you've driven it for years so you're used to it, even kind of attached to it. But try to convince someone else that the car is great and they should totally buy it, and they'll think you're crazy.

I know that there are great things about Subeta too, otherwise I wouldn't keep coming back every now and then. But it's difficult to get a new person to see that when they don't know the history and keep running into problems left and right.

I think there comes a time when everyone runs out of friends and family members to tell about Subeta. If friends and family members aren't interested or tried the site and didn't like it, blog posts etc aren't going to make them change their minds.

I wasn't really talking about trying to "recruit" friends and family that you've already tried to recruit before. I meant more like, if a person was to try referring for the first time, that was how they were expected to do it - small and localized, not trying to bring random people in en masse. Most people can't do that anyway; you yourself said most of us aren't celebrities and don't have that kind of pull. I originally said friends and family because that's most likely who will follow you on social media, unless you've got something like great art or particularly amusing commentary that draws in a few more people.

But my original point about wanting to advertise Subeta to anyone in the first place still stands. I don't want to because I don't feel great about advertising a product, even mentioning it in passing, that doesn't work and that they're not likely to find interesting. Let's iron out some more major bugs and flesh out the world some more; then we'll talk about bringing in more people.

Going by what Keith said, he's considering having the occasional weekend where we can earn referral points by making blog posts about Subeta. I'm guessing he means all players can do this, not just the newer ones who haven't referred anyone before.

The latest Brainstorming topic is about making the site more friendly and less confusing for new players because this really needs to be sorted out before more people sign up. There's still the other problems, though, such as the tendency for the servers to explode whenever a big event gets going.

This. I don't dare mention this site to anyone. Over the years that I've been here it's gotten worse instead of better. Yes, I'm aware that's because "We're changing everything to better systems" but... it's always being changed over the better systems. The time lines get extended and extended and extended. It is -not- just lag. It's things breaking and being seemingly ignored. Sometimes in my masochistic moments I go view threads in the bugs forums and not see entire months go by without responses about what's going on to fix it, or any user getting any response at all. We literally have 2 wardrobes and problems with both of them. Instead of fixing the issues plots were made involving those broken areas. When we have constant issues like unreadable forum titles and lag there... just no. When those issues cease to be then I'll start worrying about having my friends come here or mention it on my blog for viewers (that I think would benefit from having an amusing writing outlet). I support the cash shop, I stay here because of all I've put into this site already in monetary means and effort but I wouldn't wish that upon anyone when dealing with all the other BS. I consider my blog a business and wouldn't support something I felt would diminish my reputation.

This sums up most of my thoughts on the issue. If it's frustrating for long-time players, how can we explain it to new people?!

I still have to check out all pages of the other topic (about making the site friendlier) but at a first glance I wouldn't only mention the friendliness, I'd mention the numerous code/server faults. Events are the time when the site has the biggest potential to attract new players, but ain't nobody got time to fight the 502s. THAT is why I said the first year is the most important for a newbie -- most of the time, it's just easier to walk away from the glitches if you're not invested in the site.

That being said, supposing the technical situation could be helped, I agree with giving people double referral points on occasion / offering them points for advertising on Tumblr and other places with potentially high level exposure (not all the time, mind you, but under certain circumstances or time periods, like during an event). Maybe people could get points too if they helped out newbies, even if they didn't personally refer them? I'm not sure if this is a great or a terrible suggestion, but I'm thinking of newbies being able to "flag" certain players as being remarkably helpful and contributing to their stay on the site. After all, many times people stumble across sites on their own, and then it's the userbase friendliness/helpfulness that makes them stick around.

But in all honesty, if the site works well, especially during events, people will start feeling like referring friends to join in the fun. It's a natural reaction. If they enjoy something, they'll want to share it when/where they can! Good products have less to worry in terms of advertisement. Right now, nobody wants to bring anyone over, there's little to no fun to share when we can barely enjoy the creative content ourselves. :/

Maybe the brainstorming should be about how to make the game more fun for everyone, so that they would want to bring friends over, although I'm sure the vast majority of the replies would mention code/server/programming issues.

[edit] Jesus.

(bolding mine)

Well, this is what I mean, in a much shorter explanation.

Ah, I agree things will never reach 100% on any given site. I'm also happy to see there have been technical improvements since the site's foundation, but unfortunately on every event there seems to be a combination of lag/downtime and glitches that does get aggravating after a while.

It's awkward to tell a new player that it's normal that their Christmas trees might not open / might open twice, that their cash purchases might not go through during a sale (so they better list what they buy!) or that the site might have a downtime while they're trying to turn in a few event trinkets, and in that case said currency will be lost because the UAs can't track them. Likewise, it's hard to tell them that they can't search ping groups nor invite people to them, that they're better off using Google for almost any search on the site, and the new wardrobe might need multiple clicks to display results properly, among other known issues. And that some of those bugs have been around for many months, since beta, but they'll get fixed soonâ„¢...

I'm aware the coding team is small and some things are well beyond reach at the moment, but for 2015 it would be great to see some more backend code improvement + those fixes on the core functions of the site (even if they're listed as smaller QoL changes)! Because that's mostly what we're going to show new players.

"Look, they have better avatars than any other site, this is the wardrobe!" "Look at these shiny stickers! You can collect them and sort your album in X different ways to track your progress!" "Check out all of the bonuses** you can unlock after some time of collecting and join other players in the forums to share experiences! The ping system ensures you'll get a notice everytime someone talks to you!" "Come kill as many opponents as you can for unique rewards! KILL EVERYTHING YOU CAN" **forum titles, skins and other incentives.

(I could mention skins/sets of challengers/etc tied to the different worlds of Subeta, which would be really fun to mix with lore, but I'll skip it since that's mostly creative content that could come out any time c: )

I'm not aware of Neopets' current state of things (ever since the recent sale), but I know many Subeta players have registered for FR and it is a little sad to see them commenting how that site needs 2k+ people clicking and battling to start lagging while Subeta dies with 2k+ people on, even if it's not such a giant plot D:

Unfortunately, this the main reason I refuse to pimp out Subeta to anyone. As long as the site crashes with more than 2,000 people on, or lags with every plot . . . If 1,000 new users suddenly joined tomorrow, Subeta would crash and die.

Gosh I hate to be the nay-sayer in any situation, I really do. But I'm one of the people who have sadly lost interest in subeta because of bugs, downtime, and lack of interest. The only thread that is holding me to this site is custom wearables and the hope that things will pick up. To put this out there: I really, really love custom wearables and I love the artwork on the site - I think it's great and it's something I do mention to potential new users like "hey, I have a lot of fun with these maybe you should join!" The artwork is my favorite out of all of the pet sites I've joined, including flight rising. My main issues are: there's not much for me to do here and there's a lot of bugs/downtime/glitches.

When I mention the custom wearables and artwork to potential new users, they ask what else there is to do I say well...there's pets you can have and battle with...like other pet sites...site events and plots...like other pet sites....and you can collect things like stickers and items...like other sites...and you can have an avatar...like other sites. There just isn't anything giving Subeta a leg-up on the competition. Subeta has what the other sites have - but it also has with it excessive bugs, downtime, lag, etc when there is any sort of site event and plot. I used to love getting involved with the plots but it became such a chore to stick with and deal with, and then add bugs on top of that where you have to make tickets to get it straightened out before you can continue with the plot...I don't know. That was the end of my interest rope there. When things become a chore the fun just kinda flies out the window for me.

I feel for me the main issue is Subeta offers the same things every other petsite offers...but with a lot of lag and downtime. So when I weigh my options, it falls short because of that. Again, love the art, love the custom wearables. But the rest? :(

I actually had a friend who was interested in the site and asked me about it. It didn't even take 2 seconds for me to say "Don't even bother unless you like to play on a really laggy and glitchy site. Double that whenever an event is going on. In fact you have to get yourself acquainted with filling out tickets over little things that break during events. In fact if I didn't have all this time invested in playing I'd up and quit." This was last year, not years ago when the site would go down for days.

The kicker for all of this? She asked me because I was bitching on facebook about the site being down and how I was sick of having to fill out a ticket because I wasn't awarded something yet again.

I think getting new members is great. However, I think actually giving users, old (mostly) and new, a reason to stay is more important. I don't mean plots/events on top of plots/events. I mean fixing the lag and glitches. Pretty much summed it up. I dread whenever a plot/event comes up because I know we're going to go through the same issues yet again.

It's pretty sad when I stop and think about some of the users I remember back when I started (and a few years down the line) are no longer playing.

I have to agree with some of the other people in this thread. I wouldn't recommend Subeta to anyone as it is. There's just too many problems and not enough progress. I suspect Subeta is getting plenty of new users, just go to the Introductions forum to see dozens, but most of them aren't going to stick around.

Subeta really lacks solid design focus. It's just all over the place.

Is it a pet site? An avatar site? Someone who joined for the pets might get frustrated at the lack of pet-related activities available and the heavy focus on HAs. And someone who joined for the avatars might get frustrated at the buggy wardrobe and extreme exclusivity of the CW system. Is battling an important element or not? How did the devs intend players to make the bulk of their sP? WTF is SAI HQ and why is it on the map if it doesn't do anything? Who are all these NPCs and why are some of them anthro and others human? Does the Subeta world have any kind of backstory? Why do we have two wardrobes? Why does the site still experience problems if you visit it at www.subeta.net? Why did it take so long for a stat limit to be created, did the battle devs literally never play a game with a battle system before? Do I as a Subetan have a house where I live with my pets? I have a vault and a shop, are these metaphorical or something that actually exists in Centropolis?

Until this shit gets sorted out I doubt Subeta is going to grow much.

Honestly, Subeta does not need to grow. At all. Our userbase size is fine, not too small, not too big so that you feel lost.

I don't see how Subeta got worse over the years. Don't people remember losing pretty much every single saturday morning due to downtime? I'm pretty sure that being 95% sure that the site is online is much better than what it used to be.

Also, when the site started, Keith had to stop and reboot the servers every few hours or so to avoid overheat. (, correct me if I'm misremembering this anecdote of yours)

What Subeta needs is to keep the site stable and alluring. I like the fact that we have wearables, but that we don't have to have them to enjoy the site. I like the fact that we have pets, but we don't have to have them to enjoy the site. I like having opportunities.

Subeta needs to stay healthy.

Yeah, they invested more money on servers, but they are seriously lackluster in CS respect.

Hell, FR managed to have even shittier customer service than Neopets. 0/10, would not recommand.

A friend of mine waited 8 days to get his password reset. Oh, and they actually FAILED at that simple request.

Other things I would add to the list are:

1. Improve support for newbie players. As a newbie I was completely overwhelmed by the site. I posted this in another Site Feedback thread, but there really needs to be more guides or at least support for new players. Not all new players necessarily want to chat in the Welcome forum and it doesn't necessarily offer enough help besides a hello.

This would help with newbie retention - even if a boatload of new users join, if only a few of them stay that isn't as good as having fewer users join with more of them staying, imo. Plus, it will promote the idea that Subeta is friendly. The customer service here is much better than other pet sites and we should be proud of that!

Not sure what this goes under but I have NO idea what to describe Subeta as to other people. I caught a friend looking at me muck around in the Wardrobe. I showed her Style File and she said the art was really pretty, but when I told her Subeta was like "an adult version of Neopets" she was just like... "Oh."

So basically: a) get users to stay, whether they be longtime or new b) increase newbie retention

Oh, haha, I'd have no idea, I've only started checking them out very recently (despite registering a long while ago) and I never needed their support :x Now I sure hope I never do, lol. Your poor friend! My point was mostly about coding and server issues, but if there's one thing I like about Subeta is the Customer Support. I'm 100% convinced that every time I couldn't get my issue solved, it's because it was absolutely out of the UAs' reach, and I hardly ever have to wait more than a few hours to get a ticket assigned. ^-^