Some of us aren't wealthy and appreciated the option.

Good thing you can use sP to buy CSC.

The feature hadn't worked properly for a long time. mentioned he was trying to find a significantly decent source that didn't infect people with spyware or refuse to pay out

Eh, this might be a bad example, but try to get my drift: On "Clash of Clans" (a simple little game I play on my cellphone- you've probably heard of it) You earn the equivalent of sp through in-game challenges, as usual. Their equivalent of CSC can be bought with cash, OR can be gained a little at a time by A.) Completing certain achievements B.) Certain random events .... I believe this is a superior alternative to shady surveys and the like... I certainly hope to see something like this in place sometime soon... and before anyone starts on about how giving out free CSC is harmful to the economy, let me restate "a little at a time" and also mention that often times the strategy used by games such as Clash of Clans is to give users a taste of how awesome this bit of currency can be, thus encouraging CSC purchase in the future. I don't think I've ever been in any shop selling items for CSC. I don't care because I don't buy it, but I will admit that if I had some to spend, and there were tantalizing items to save up for, I would be tempted to cough it up. Whilst I'm on the subject of encouraging members to spend cash, I would also like to point out a concern that I posted about earlier... It appears to be a common occurrence to freeze or ban users for little reason, or for a "suspected crime." I for one would feel much, much more comfortable spending money if I didn't feel threatened by statistics like this. Time-wise, I'm already so heavily invested that if something like that ever happened to me, this computer might easily find itself plummeting several stories.

-in-Sand

a 'common occurence'? what are you even basing that on, apart from a bunch a unsubstantiated reports from people having a bitch on other pet sites after they've been 'unfairly' frozen? the staff here are not mindless robots, they're people who can be talked to and reasoned with if there's ever a situation where you feel you've been treated unfairly. and like I said on your other board, if you're not doing anything wrong, you REALLY have nothing to worry about.

Really? Other than a few "he-said-she-said" threads on various other pet sites, where are these "statistics" you have found?

The site already does that. Users are able to use sP to purchase CSC

Items that are purchased in the Cash Shop are not locked to accounts.

Don't have the money to spend on Subeta? Prefer to trust random "accounts" of incidents instead of a website that has been running for 10 years? That is your choice, and you can use in game currency to purchase CSC.

The site shouldn't have to give out currency, hoping to gain more back.

If there is indeed nothing to worry about, then the point is moot. However, as you said, the staff are people, not machines. And people are flawed. I would also like to point out that I used the term "seems to be" because I have no solid evidence(as stated on the previous thread already)- but a lack of evidence does not translate into evidence of lack. I'm not trying to point fingers or start a problem where there may not be one, but I am voicing a concern that I feel can be easily addressed. It also peeves me that rather than facing this as a simple concern, it seems like the most popular response is to view it as an attack or a wrongful complaint. In fact, I find it funny that whilst addressing rule-breaking behavior, you find it necessary to use foul language. Pardon, but at this point I am becoming quite frustrated, since on the previous thread, my question regarding protocols was ignored entirely, and on this one, my input on earning CSC was also ignored. But, to be more clear and fair about my intentions regarding the "supposed unrightful freezing rate" ("supposed" added for clarity), rather than complaining, which was not my intention, I think it would be a nice feature if it were put, in writing (perhaps beneath the rules listing), what the process is for offenders or suspected offenders. At the very least. It would be a small and simple addition, and would serve as visible evidence of a sophisticated safety net, rather than just saying that you can appeal actions once they're taken against you.

@ pawprints-in-sand swearing isn't against the rules, so there's another moot point. :)

What startles me more than anything is the adamance towards the staff clearly being out to get people, when there is literally no proof? I mean I creep on a lot of accounts (yay pet people are stalkers, whoo), and the amount of users I see frozen are few and far between and usually self-freezes that forgot to came back or were avoiding a harsher judgement of their actions (ie: they were outed as breaking rules that're taken very seriously).

I think I would, likewise, be MORE concerned if subeta was keeping up the shady, underhanded, and spyware filled offers opposed to no offers? Like who really wants harmful damage to their credit/computers/personal information just so they can get a buck or two of free csc? Like do people really want to give Norton $50 that much more than giving subeta $5?

Also from time to time subeta has had 500 csc cards in the token shop, and technically if you buy any csc directly you get a bonus (which is, as it were, free csc), not to mention the already specified ability to purchase CSC with sP.

You just stated that you have statistics. Statistics are a form of evidence.

What do you want? to personally assure you that people are not being banned for no good reason? That every case is inspected with certain guidelines?

Cause that's what you were already told.

The site takes multiple measures to ensure that people aren't being randomly frozen. (How does that even make sense from a business standpoint?)

I never had any problems with the offer wall. It just takes some common sense to know which offers are real and which ones aren't, lol. None of the offers I ever did refused to pay out either, and I did plenty of them.

-in-sand

HI, I USED TO WORK FOR SUBETA.

AS A USER ADMIN

First of all, all warnings can be appealed, and they are removed from your account after a certain time.

User admins don't freeze people for nothing. User admins freeze people because they broke the rules more than a certain number of times (And we're talking more than one time for minor rules. Like, a bunch of times)

User admins freeze people because they cheat or are using illicit ways to duplicate items (Ah yes, people who duplicated rare things and gave them to people in the shoutbox)

User admins don't go and freeze people for no reason. At all. When someone is frozen, not only there is an opportunity to appeal the freezing, but there is MASSIVE INVESTIGATION DONE. I know that, I did it in the past. So much investigating. Namely, when freezing for multiple accounts was a thing, I couldn't just freeze based on "I have a feeling". I had to do long investigation to go and back up my claims. Subeta works under presumption of innocence, unless you had SOLID PROOF of something, you can't take action.

I've been playing for 8 years. I have a total of zero official warnings. I'm in no danger to get frozen. Hell, after quitting staff, and over the following years, I had disagreements with Keith, and he never, never ever ever threatened me, or got staff on my case to investigate me. I'm still here, I'm still grumpy, but I feel safe here. I know I'll still have my account tomorrow morning. Unless the site goes under, and in this case, it's not my fault at all!

Subeta could go and shut up dissenters, but it doesn't. This is one thing I like about this site, I like that there is actually work done with our criticism.

(Also, when people claim they were UNFAIRLY FROZEN, they usually forget to omit that they broke multiple rules. You really have to work hard to get frozen on Subeta.)

Yeah. Exactly. Assurance that cases are treated equally and specific guidelines ("multiple measures") are followed. I think that would be excellent. Well, not so much assurance for me personally, but for it to be on the site would be nice. I don't see why it's being treated as such a bad idea. I've never been mistreated by admins, or anyone on the site, but after reading several accounts on several websites of similar unsavory experiences by former users(they could all be lies as far as anyone knows, but that's not the point, the point is as follows:), I found it unnerving that I couldn't find anything on Subeta that gave any assurance that a legitimate protocol actually takes place. This doesn't mean that I instantly believed that there was none, obviously on a site this vast there has to be something- and that's all I wanted. Okay, there must be something, sooo... what is it?

"There's a warning system in place. There's verbal warnings, which are just like "hey chill out or we'll have to get serious" and then there's official warnings, which if you get three of them, you get frozen. I believe there are insta-freezable offenses, but they have to be pretty blatant rule-breaking." Is nice to hear, but why not post a more specific version on the site? There's already the bit about contacting staff after you get frozen, but the fact that that is all there is almost makes it sound like that IS all there is, you know what I mean?

-in-sand

I don't think that users have to go and know everything about how cases are managed, because it's really case-by-case. It's not a clear-cut 3 strikes and you're out (This only applied to the same offense, it was 5 officials in total, and three for the same thing. Most of the time)

Keep in mind, for some things, there is not an opportunity for three warnings. Item duplicating, botting/cheating via autobuyers and hacking other users come to mind. There is a tolerance zero policy on this. There are other things too.

Finally, rules get changed and removed. Foreign language used to be forbidden everywhere. There was actually a rule where a shoutbox post, or a forum post had to have less than 50% capital letters when joined. THAT'S RIGHT! You had to count, especially with short posts. Rules seriously changed a lot since 2011. Multiple accounts went from insta-freeze to warnable offense. Forumsets rules are a lot more lax than they were.

If you need more clarification about things, fill a ticket, and get it assigned to either Rasputina or Dill, who are the persons in charge of the customer service department. I think they will be a lot clearer about things than me, who has been offstaff for a while, now. But, really, we didn't have a number of people to freeze back then, and I'm sure they don't have a list right now.

Thank you for the invested reply, it is truly appreciated. That would definitely explain why there are so many more "old" complaints versus recent. I never payed attention to forum or shoutbox rules back then, since I so very rarely utilized either.
I think I shall go turn in my suggestion :) Maybe someday soon, there will be a little extra bit of text on the rule listing! Whoo! My dreams are small and boring XP

Okay this thread got way off topic fast.

Regarding ways to earn Cash Shop Credits there are actually quite a few ways you can earn them other than just straight up sp. They've done summer give-aways where they gave out cards to random people who participated. A lot of the recent special contests (the cake one, pumpkin carving) have given out csc as a prize for winning. Cards get given out in the free shop during giveaways (though that's been awhile) and every once in awhile they will token shop.

Sure the opportunities might be few and far between but they do exist.