Today’s Wardrobe Layers: what is wrong with this picture

There are presently over 22,000 wearables and nearly 11,000 custom wearables in the wardrobe today. They are sorted across 24 layers in the wardrobe. They are mostly differentiated by location, but some heavily used areas are further broken down by function. They separate as such:

There are many issues with the present system, ranging from unclear sorting rules, cluttered layers, and great disparities between the size of layers. For example: - There are layers with upwards of 2000 (Face), 3500 (Chest) and even 6000 (Head) items each, while others contain less than 200-300 (Full Body, Fingers, etc)!

• Some layers seem to have arbitrarily sorted and misplaced items, and there are many layers sharing items that appear to be very similar in design.
  Quote

  
  Ground vs Foreground vs Backdrop
  
  Hat (first 3) vs Head (last 3)
  
  Ankle vs Leg
  
  Over Chest vs Shoulder
  
  Body vs Chest vs Full Body
  
  Backdrop vs Ground
  
  Backdrop vs Ground
  
  
  There are many many many more of these examples, for nearly every pair of layers with potential overlapping.

Proposed Future Wardrobe Layers

Rather than the present 24 layers, I would like to see these 25 layers (one of which breaks down into 3 sub-layers):

My goals in creating this new layer system:

• explicit, easy to follow placement rules for all artists (both official Subeta artists and CW artists)
• a more even spread of the number of items between each layer, as far as possible
• easy sorting for all users through accurate, understandable placement of items
• make these changes without allowing for an increase in the number of items worn by each HA I hope to achieve this through new layers and repurposed/renamed layers. I have written out explanations for the major changes I made which can be found below a complete guide of sorting rules for all layers.

An In-Depth Guide to Proposed Layers (with examples)

[spoiler=Full Body Layer] Items that cover many major layers (Arms, Chest, Bottom, Legs, Hat) should exist in the Full Body layer. These items should virtually cover the entire HA. See examples for further guidelines. Example items: compete body suits, costumes, long and sleeved dresses, large costume trunks, etc Full Body [item=Giselle Snowshoe Skintight Bodysui

A LOT of work was put into this! And i agree with what you're saying. There are a lot of items that are in between. It'd be nice to have some clear guidelines. (As a CW shop owner, it's hard to put items into categories sometimes, so something like this would be great)

Wow! You put your heart and soul into this. Great job! I totally agree with you and would love to see this implemented. I hope they listen. :)

Dear lord I could cry this is WONDERFUL

One thing though, I don't understand why the wouldn't be considered skin. It's a tattoo...right?

But oh my god separate over face, make up, eyes, and lips layers? MY LIFE. THANK YOU.

Hi Ara! I really like some of the changes you suggested! I agree that a number of items are perhaps mis-categorized (as the ones you've listed) but I think we need to also take into consideration that the older items were introduced at a different time. ^^

I do very much like your suggestion of the Over Face and Eyes/Lips/Makeup. Since the E/L/M are sub-layers, what would be the mother layer be called? Since I think having them as individual layer names with their own button would be confusing for why the avatar won't save. There are also numerous makeup items that also over lap. The current example I can think of is (Lips and makeup) Is a lip item but also covers part of the face.

Overall, I think it would be nice to re-categorize the layers but I think it would also be unfair to some degree regarding Custom wearables. I'm going to draw on the background/foreground/adjacent remodel: A number of your categorized foreground items would have been considered backdrop items in the current system. (IE, frames and cutouts) and right now, the pricing in CSC is the difference of 1000 CSC. If recategorized background items were considered foreground items, how would we be able to compensate those who released their CWs using the old categorization? The same would go for the vice versa scenario. Would the Subeta team be willing to shell out already consumed CSC or "ban" already released CWs that have been re-categorized until proper payment be due?

It would also take a long time to reorganize each and every item on the site. I'm not sure that it's in their budget to keep someone to do that. :P

(As a friendly note, I'm not trying to say it's a bad idea, I'm just playing Devil's advocate because there will be people who will question these kinds of things.)

Keep up the great ideas though! :)

Wow. This is great! Thank you for creating this long post! I don't know if the differentiations between the sub-face layers would be super realistic (there would be less need for Ooh La Layers...though perhaps people would purchase more CWs? I am not sure). That being said, some re-adjusting is definitely due. Perhaps to make the process more efficient there could be more item tagging like there was a few years ago? I'm sure the Subeta community could get through 33,000 wearables in a jiffy ;)

I agree with the basic premise. I've used drawers to fix some of these problems, and have broken things up in many similar ways. Some of my drawers include eyes, lips and wigs.

There is one other option, however. I've created some "functional" based drawers that span all layers. I don't think this can be incorporated in the currently existing wardrobe (or your proposed changes), but, it might be worth looking at. The types of drawers are pets, body parts, and tattoos.

The main problem with this, of course, are layer limits. My functional setup just doesn't work that way. However, another possibility is that the Beta Wardrobe currently does not include drawers, or any kind of sorting of this nature yet. Maybe your sublayers and my functional layers could be incorporated as pre-selected drawers/tags in the new wardrobe.

Thanks so much for your support! This is something I've been interested in working on for months and months (I had a similar suggest board way back).

I feel that with tattoos it may be more beneficial to have certain tattoos sorted different layers. That way if you are looking for a way to spruce up your legs or arms specially you still have access to tattoos that appear exclusively in those areas of the HA. "The Skin layer would not include makeup/piercings that are limited to the face, or tattoos that specifically cover only the arms or ankles or legs, etc. Only larger pieces that cover/touch upon more than one area of the HA or small pieces that stand apart in their present layer would be included in the Skin layer." I could definitely have an unpopular opinion on the matter, especially since it could make more sense to have items of the same function all sorted into one single layer, rather than dispersed across others.

The Makeup layer would include items such as those! "Any remaining face items such as blush, makeup kits (a combination of eyes, lips, or makeup), eyeliner, etc. would be sorted into the Makeup Layer". I personally don't feel that any compensation would be necessary. There was no compensation for those who created or purchases small items (such as rings) before the current system was enacted. Any items created before a layer revamp would remain priced as they are, while newly released items would be priced in accordance with the new system. I agree that it would be a painstaking, time consuming process. However, the longer this goes un addressed the worse it gets. Personally I feel that this is something that could be feasibly undertaken by the general Subeta user population, provided that they are educated and informed on any new layer sorting criteria. It would be much easier than the tagging system!

Those three layers do not act as individual layers! "They are sub-layers, and act as part of the Face layer. While you would be able to view them separately, you could only wear 2-6 items between the three (3-6 slots with GA and OLL)." I love the idea of having the Subeta users assist in the sorting of wearables in the appropriate layers. I think it would be a task that many would be excited to help with, more so than the attempt at item tagging.

• Pets: since pets appear on different places on your HA (a cat across the shoulders, a snake clinging to the leg, a horse in the background) I had no way of putting them into their own layer without seriously comprising preexisting layers. I adore the idea of having a sublayer for pets/companions! Or at least something that ties them together so that users can view them easily in one place. I believe that they should first and foremost appear in and count towards layers such as Shoulder, Legs, or Background, but like you said it would be great to also have to the option to somehow view them together. • Body Parts and Tattoos: "Body: Items that cover some major layers (such as Chest/Arms and Bottom/Legs/Feet) should exist in the Body layer. Partial figure altering items or unique limbs belong in the Body layer. Full Body: Items that cover many major layers (Arms, Chest, Bottom, Legs, Hat) should exist in the Full Body layer. These items should virtually cover the entire HA. Skin: This new layer would include items that lay on the HAs skins without functioning as a sort of clothing. If any of these ‘skin’ pieces are already designated to a specific localized layer they may stay there. This layer would not include makeup/piercings that are limited to the face, or tattoos that specifically cover only the arms or ankles or legs, etc. Only larger pieces that cover/touch upon more than one area of the HA or small pieces that stand apart in their present layer would be included in the Skin layer." That's what I included in my OP, though I'm beginning to question keeping arm tattoos separate from leg tattoos (etc.) as Inknote brought up a similar point!

Putting the makeup/combo items in the makeup layer would make sense but I think those items are primarily lip items which is why I brought them up. (They have lip in the item name.) I can understand the no compensation. Hopefully it will be easier to categorize!

Mmm. I don't think that the general sub population would take kindly to having to do any "work" on the site. I mean, Amber has been working at reorganizing the rarity of a number of items which IMO would be more doable by opening it to the public. I think to create less headache, it should be done by admins to minimize disputes and disagreements on items.

I also read your response to having a UA with sorting of wearables. I don't think would happen since there isn't even a UA with CW help, only an official board (this is no disrespect to Jessi). IMO, getting help from a UA should only be needed for serious matters and not for something another player can help you with. (IE. harassment, site bugs, etc)

I think it would depend on the item. I would without a doubt put the Autumn Kiss Dp Lipstick in the Makeup layer, but I could rationalize putting the Rotten Lipstick in the Lip layer since there is no blush attached to the lips (just rotting lip flesh). I wouldn't put any real weight into sorting items based on their names. An excellent example of why can be seen in the myriad of items called pants that are really leggings, or leggings that are really pants. I think one person could manage the project if they were patient and passionate. I've considered just doing it myself just for kicks, but I definitely feel like it would be a waste of my time if it was never implemented. If I had even an hint that sorting done by me would be processed into the site I would start work in a heartbeat. What does UA stand for? User Admin? If I specifically said admin at any point I probably meant it as more general staff? Someone either existing or hired on (even temporarily) to assist with the work needed.

Makes sense! ^^ Yeah, it would suck if you did all the reorganization and was not implemented. :c

Yeah, UA = user admin. I think maybe having an assistant admin who can answer on an official board? (Similar to Jessi's job)

If any admins have any input, I'm interested to hear!

This is definitely interesting! I would like to see some consistency with how things are placed in the layers.

Thought my only real suggestion is that I think the Lower Back layer should still be kept. I don't see why tails and bustles and such should be lumped into a Back layer, as their position is quite different on the HA's body than something like wings, for example. For me, it doesn't make sense to clutter up that layer.

I've always thought that there should be a separate hair/wig layer. There's just so many wig items, but there's also a lot of general head items. It gets crowded and hard to find what you're looking for. They keep saying no to new layers, but it would really only make sense in my opinion to at LEAST have a new wig layer. I mean, we have a fingers layer, and a hands layer. Really? Yes, hair IS on the head. But you know what else is on the head? the face. Would it make sense to merge the face and head layer by that logic? How about literally all the other layers merged with the body layer? Why do we have a separate fingers layer from the hands but not a separate hair layer from the head? What I'm getting at is the more categories of layers, the better.

And I do think that wearables should be categorized properly, I find things that I think would be in one layer, in a totally different layer. Like I remember one time I was looking for . Looks like it would be in the arm layer right? Just like the other bracelets and cuffs? Nope! Hands layer.

A lot of the already existing wears could use some work on which layer they go in, for the examples listed in the OP. Though I suppose they would just expect you to create a bug thread about it and they'll move it maybe a year later, AKA the slowest re-organizing ever. (no offense staff). I just think that all the wearables need to be double checked, I mean the wardrobe is getting revamped so it seems like a good time. I mean I know there's a lot of clothes to go through but... from the looks of this thread, users are more than willing to help out, in a timely fashion.

This because SO MUCH MORE possible once we move completely to the new wardrobe. Right now with the old wardrobe, all items are sorted via their image. So in order to change an items layer, the image filename must be changed (along with some database settings) which is REALLY HARD for the item admins (amber/ariel) to do because it's not really built into our panel.

The new wardrobe, on the other hand, only uses the data from the database. Items can be sorted all over the place without any significant work. Maybe this would be another good "put the users to work" type feature where we show all the items and give out some sP for organizing them :)

The main reason that I decided to consolidate the lower back and back wasn't because I felt that they were overly similar, but because I wanted to make room for new layers (without increasing the number of layers). Does that make sense? Since they are similar enough in location I didn't feel that it would be overly difficult for users to adjust to having the two consolidated.

I'm glad you agree ❤️ You really get exactly where I'm coming from, haha!

YESSSSSSS. A thousand times yes. bows down Would you consider make adjustments to the layers themselves in order to make this change the most effective? I took into consideration the limitation of a set number of layers when I undertook this little project, in the hopes that it is something that you might consider working towards. I really love the idea of having the users assist is sorting the items, as it would be the most effective and take the least about of time. That is, so long as everyone has a clear understanding of what should go where. As it is now a lot of the layers are very of ambiguous! There are still some gray areas that I've run across in my own layer definitions (like facial hair and tattoos) but these are things that can easily be set in stone and make clear for everyone!

This is one of the most thought out plans I've ever seen. Good job ! :)

I, for one, wouldn't mind sorting like we did with the minions because I'm a sucker for limited time achievements haha. The only thing is the achievement for the minion one never showed up right for me.. so if that's the route they went I'd want it to be something I could check on as I'm doing it. I might be interested in doing it for sp too :)

Love, love, love this!

Moving to HA suggestions!

Praise . This is amazing. Fully support.

This is absolutely stunningly well thought out and written. You get all the points, . All of them.

That being said, I just want to give my full support. Honestly, some items will always be a challenge (such as the arm tattoos), but even if we just reduce the number of oddly placed wearables, I think this would be better than what we have now. A few items that could be good in multiple layers are just... well, it's going to happen. But at least this system would WAY reduce that.

I also want to point out that keeping a lowerback area may be good for people who like to combo up in mystical type wears. For example: a cloak, wings, and tail. Admittedly, I see this being really rare though, so not really sure it would be worth it to keep the two (lowerback and back) separate.

AND YES PLEASE TO NO HAT LAYER. IT IS SOOOO HARD TO FIND THINGS BETWEEN HEAD AND HAT. And once there is a Hair layer, there is no need for me to strain my brain in finding items between Head and Hat. Oh Gods, let this happen!

Oh, and the Body spoiler tag isn't working right... fyi. Might help to fix that in your post. ^^

So yeah, FULL SUPPORT. :)