Thanks for nothing, various users in the art community. To constantly nitpick and obsess over points that I don't have issues with, and criticize what I do. I needed help on a few points; one I fixed myself partially, but the others weren't addressed in a way that was actually helpful.

I'm not going around saying there are "5 million things wrong" with anyone's art. Art isn't a cookie-cutter hobby and I got more criticism than any help at all; needless criticism. Don't try to go around trying to tell someone to change something about their art because you don't like. Especially not when they ask for help on fairly simple points.

Right off I'm gonna say get away from following tutorials to end up with 'a pose' since you loose a lot of the structure that you need to build up on top of the image. Tutorials are good for techniques, but not for whole images since if the original artist has made a mistake you'll just copy it and not notice you've done it until too late, if at all -- such as with the crotch area here, you could use a better understand of the underlying form before putting things on top, even skin. I just finished something that might actually be useful for demonstrating how I approached adding clothes etc... since I was struggling a bit with the poses. Now I work digitally, so it's a lot easier for me to just layer sketch over sketch, but I use the same basic principles when working traditionally, I just do thumbnails etc... on a different page and do my sketches very lightly instead of lowering the opacity of the layer.

{click image for larger}

Refs/sketches on hands and feet that helped me tons on breaking down the shapes.

Downloadable PDFs on the human form that are awesome.

I actually have a load of sub-sections to my tumblr on refs, I'm still building it up but there may be other useful things on there for you =3 Link.

Normally I do wire-figures and flesh them out but certain poses are difficult - specifically crossing-over of limbs. Were there mistakes? Yes, but the tutorial wasn't for that specific pose. I ended up erasing and thinning out the fleshed-out figure across the hips, waist, thighs/legs and arms. I managed to pull up the crotch by looking at a comic book. Thank god this isn't the finalized version. x_x All that would be seen by the scanner would be eerased lines.

I think you're missing my point. Sorry if my links weren't useful. Good luck.

Not really. I've fixed most of the issues; I don't have trouble with clothes. I focus on anatomical correctness pretty often. Everyone has a different style/method/whatever. Drawing feet that will go into tights/stockings is annoying because it still requires definition. The fleshed out prototype was missing hands, which I corrected for the most part.

I don't quite know why you're posting here if you're going to shake off advice as 'it's personal style', you posted looking for help on clothes and hands and feet, now you're telling me you don't have trouble with clothes? You asked for help with hands I offered help now you shrug it off like was unsolicited advice, I don't know what you're looking for unless it's a pat on the back. Whatever, I feel like I wasting my time, good luck with the corset you wanted help with but apparently don't actually.

Normally, I draw simpler clothes, ie: a shirt and pants or skirt, a dress without much of a pose. Drawing lingerie-type clothes is a challenge, due to the pose. It's personal style because you may not have issues with starting off with a fleshed-out figure and a pose whereas I do. You might draw more lingerie-like clothes but I don't. In most drawings, characters aren't holding anything, sometimes don't have hands or the way they're holding the object, you only see their fingers. In this case, I have to draw her hands in full. I've done sketches of hands but not wrapped around a rounded object; its a point I've mostly fixed last night. I ended up switching the corset from a full corset to a waist cincher due to trying line up the abdomen with the bust that's visible.

Here's the updated version as of last night. Unless you're still mad that I didn't find your links helpful. Circles are problematic areas.

It's late and there are still 5 million things wrong with the little person I spent 5-10 minutes sketching out on the side but here. Stylistically or not the crotch is 'technically' too high. My drawing doesn't do a good job of showing it because her legs are too long still, but why? Because your torso is about the same size as your thighs which are about the same size as your calves and your calves are really really long compared to everything else. Which I guess is okay because there are some styles that do it, and there's no need to defend your style as being the reason I'm pointing it out to say when your crotch looked like it was in a weird spot that was why. What bothered me most though was the feet. I'm start by saying unless your thigh highs are toe socks idk how much 'feet' you'll be seeing but if I can see her knee is jutting to her right and the foot to the viewers front is sort of angled that way the big toe is going to be farthest away from us. Which means it makes no sense as to why your big toe overlaps the little toes. Also she was floating. I bluelined your feet so you could see my very shitty rendition of at the very least setting some toes on the ground. I also went ahead and attempted to position my arms like hers and what I found it that it's really uncomfortable. You're hand is like right about at the shoulder but not quite. I'd move it down actually to make it look the most natural (and feel the most comfortable if you were to pose like that) but if you're going to not want to move the shoulder straps and all that at least move it up a little further. Also move in that one shoulder. It's pretty dislocated. I think it's too late for me to give any more even semi-decent advice though but hopefully you see one or two things here you can at least think about.

The link is broken. I never bother with backgrounds and don't bother with the ground either; it became time-consuming and frustrating overall. It's also not an uncomfortable pose, arm-wise. I've almost always drawn very tall, shojo-esque people. It's still not done. They'll be thigh high tights, which can and do show some of the toe. Specifically an outline that isn't overly detailed.

It should be clickable. Try again? I don't bother with the backgrounds much either unless I need them but if you look at the little blue lines it's only a little tilt of the toes and it makes a world of a difference to just ground her in your pose. Also with the arms, yeah it is. It's because the thumb and the other fingers look like it's circling the shoulder and almost cupping it. You have a really odd angle of the hand that isn't helping.

Even with 'very tall shojo-esque people' they are still in proportions. Which means they don't have really long calves and short everything else. It's normally the heels that give the appearance of long calves but from ankle to knee your calves are really long atm. Some anime body proportion examples. Your legs still look long because if you'll notice they're torsos are longer and actually fit their legs.

No, your link dead-ends to dA's error page. I already said, I was having issues with the hands and have already tested the pose. It's fine. That isn't her heel either, it's the bony protrusion of the ankle. You haven't seen a CLAMP character, have you? They're incredibly tall and pretty disproportionate.

It's hard to distinguish because you it too pronounced.

As for the CLAMP characters their thighs are as long as their calves even if their torsos might by a little disproportionate your calves are longer than your thighs which makes it just look awkward. Also CLAMP characters tend to have long torsos as well so their legs are only slightly out of proportion in comparison to torso length if they are at all because they aren't always.

I agree with Emotional's points about the legs. If the proportions were edited they'd look a lot better. The bone of the ankle is also a little bit too big, and it looks a little high to me. The way her foot is positioned the ankle wouldn't be jutting out that much. It looks like it's swollen the way it is currently.

I'd also agree about the hands. I just put my arms in that position and had to twist my wrists a lot to get my hands to look like hers. Especially the hand on her shoulder. It's not a comfortable looking pose. There's nothing wrong with stylization but it can be done in a way that just makes people look uncomfortable and awkward rather than simply unrealistic. Even stylized characters have to be proportional to themselves. If they have extremely long calves but only normal length thighs they look "off". Same with the torso/leg length.

This isn't really relevant to this drawing but it might be helpful in the future; Tutorials are usually not very helpful with learning to draw poses unless they show actual photo references. Drawing poses from other drawings is also unhelpful, because you tend to learn other people's mistakes doing that. Drawing from life or drawing from photos of actual people is the way to go usually. Posemaniacs is also very helpful because they show poses using 3d anatomical models and you can change your viewing angle as you see fit. They've got a very good selection of poses too. You can still draw in a stylized way even if you're drawing from a realistic reference.

Its only a starting sketch, and how I do many of my characters. I'm also referring to their characters in xxxHoLIC, who are all tall, skinny and have little regard for proportion. Another example: Sailor Moon. Heavily disproportionate. Do you complain about them too? You're merely focusing on things that don't need to be fixed, because they only bother you and aren't looking at what does need to be changed. It's not your art, its not for you. My problem is fixing the hands and the feet, not change a whole drawing because one user doesn't like it. I needed help, not criticisms on how I draw or how disproportionate a character is. Saying 5 millions things are wrong when I, the artist, find only two isn't helpful.

It's been said before and I'll say it again: her feet need to be fixed. Whatever. Her hand on the left side needs to be fixed.

Really tired of people trying to point out things to "change" in my drawing. Things that are, to me, just fine. Don't like the drawing? I don't frankly care. I'm not getting the help I need to make her hand look more like a hand or to adjust her feet to look decent.

I thinking this was more a case of misunderstanding, that those users weren't trying to be overly critical or trying to get you to change things you didn't want to change... That they were only trying to help. I'll admit I only scanned through your original post before you changed it, because there was A LOT of information. It was hard for me to get a handle on what you wanted help with... I think perhaps you would have fared better if you had been very specific about exactly what you wanted help with (i.e. the hand and feet) in your original post, and left out extra info about the drawing. It's important, yes, but too much text can confuse the issue.

I hope you don't mind, but here's my thoughts: From what I can see, the left hand is at too severe an angle and needs to be rotated downwards to match the arm. (Try looking in a mirror and placing your hand like it is in the drawing... That exact position is very difficult, and for me impossible, to achieve.) Also, when the foot is directly facing forward, the ankle bones are not that pronounced to the outside and there is an even smaller protrusion on the inside, up slightly for the position of the outside protrusion, and the foot will get broader as it comes down to the toes due to foreshortening... (Kinda like an elongated trapezoid.) I'm afraid I don't have any readily available references... I'm going from an art book I bought a while back.

I hope you find that somewhat helpful, which I'm not sure you will since I can't provide references. (Also, I think trying the pose yourself, with a mirror or by taking a photo, can be helpful even if you are the wrong body type or even the wrong gender. It can at least give you a better idea of placement.)

I'm aware the wrist/hand is at a severe angle, hence why its the biggest issue but the arms otherwise are fine (pose? Fine. Hand? No) It looks more like her hand is broken or its even a prosthetic but it wasn't completely fixed/set to begin with. I tried several times to move it up more to the shoulder or down at a slight angle so its relaxed in appearance, but I have little experiment drawing a hand slightly curved as if its holding something. Not a commonly addressed position. The ankle was just a temporary placemarker; I don't normally have bare feet, ankles, etc showing whether its prototyping or on a finished drawing. I only ever have a very slight idea of drawing feet and they still come out badly from wire-figures. Foreshortening is relatively easy but not a technique I need often, especially since I don't trouble myself with feet heavily like I said.

I'm still learning anatomy myself... I feel like I've got a decent handle on how things should look, but I never can quite get that to transfer to my work. Ugh.

Anyway... I think your best bet would still be to try the arm pose yourself. -tries the pose, one armed cause I'd never be able to achieve that exact pose with my body type- I think the fingers would be wrapped around the back of the arm and, considering the slight turn of the body, only the part of the top of the hand would be showing past the wrist if at all. You may just need to have the arm kinda ending at the wrist, with the thumb showing above as it rests on the arm... Ummm... Yeah... Not quite sure how to describe the way it looks... As for the feet, I'm not great with them either... I've gotten better, with practice, but I still end up leaving them boxes without toes generally because oh-so-much weirdness ensues when I try. LOL So, yeah, no additional suggestions there... Hopefully, if you are adding shoes or something, the feet will work themselves out as your drawing progresses.

I do wish you the best of luck with the drawing!

If I were to add shoes, it would probably be the cutesy, vinatge-y froo-froo slipper-heels (they just seem to fit better with stockings, corset and garters, etc). Initially, I tried to make that particular hand show the top and only barely showing the second set of knuckles so she still obviously has fingers but they're not 100% visible. Toes shouldn't be hard but they are to the point of frustration.

I'm sorry but if your legs are wrong your crotch is wrong and you specifically complained about her crotch. I'm sorry but if you're legs are wrong your feet are wrong and you specifically asked help with her feet. I'm also sorry but Sailor Moon's thighs aren't any longer than her calves.

You asked for help on the toes, which depend on the feet angle which looked like they were to the side because your protrusion was too extreme and because of how you handled the calves. Also:

he has a long torso to match his legs, xxxHoLIC has a lot in regards to proportion.

I never said your sketch had 5 million things wrong, I only said that the sketch I drew at the side (of a picture that wouldn't even show for you) had 5 million things wrong. My sketch, not yours.

That's very rude to say when you asked for help and people gave you advice. You can only thank us for nothing because you completely disregarded everything anybody on the board said to you. If you like the piece that's fine, ultimately that's what matters. Just don't go around asking for advice when people pull up exactly what you asked for (like Shala did) and you are just going to blow them off 'because it's your style'. If you don't find our advice (not criticism. Criticism would be saying something looks bad, advice is finding something off and giving you ways to make it better) helpful you don't have to post asking for help because this is what you're going to get.

Hopefully you and your boyfriend likes it. I'm sorry that you weren't interested in Subeta's help/advice.

Wow thanks so much for some of those links <3 I really enjoyed seeing your progress and that tumblr looks like it'll be really helpful in the future.

No, I didn't get help. I did not disregard what was said. What was linked wasn't helpful to my situation. Did I look at it? Yes. Did it give any help? No. Did you help or provide advice? No; you didn't provide much of anything, you complained repeatedly about proportions when it's not your art nor is it for you. Don't like it? Stop looking at it and walk away. Its people like you that irritate me, the ones who want everything done a certain way. You were being critical, not advising.