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Feb 6, 2014 12 years ago
Tali
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Cinthia

I'm sorry this is so long, but I wanted to be descriptive to answer any questions about my dog that a person may think of.

I'm having two problems with my dog that I'm really struggling to address and fix. These are issues that I don't have any experience with, considering that my childhood dog never had these problems. I've done some research, but I'm not finding any potential solutions for my exact problem. If anyone could give any kind of advice or experience, I would seriously appreciate it.

By the way, he's a male corgi named Jake. The shelter that we adopted him from said that their vet estimated him being around 1-2 years old.

Peeing whenever he receives attention Not always, but it is almost a given that he will pee whenever someone gives him attention. Doesn't matter if it's a stranger or one of the family members that he sees daily. The thing is, we let him outside in the backyard constantly. We take him on 2-3 walks a day on top of that. He has plenty of chances to empty his bladder outside. Jake understands that he needs to go to the bathroom outside. I've read up on it and have noticed that it could be a symptom of urinary tract infection. However, he has none of the other symptoms that could lead towards it, so I'm not sure if this is the case. If it comes to it, I may take him to the vet just to be safe. But at the same time, his previous vet (that the shelter took him to) never diagnosed him with an infection, unless if he didn't specifically look for this problem. If he's healthy, then my second guess is that he is doing submissive urination. He's not overexcited when he greets a person, but he actually looks a tad fearful. His ears go back and he seems to shrink down. He does this the most whenever my dad greets him, but he does do it to about anybody else, too. I don't know his past nor do I know how he was treated. He will not pee until someone bends down to pet him. This leads me to think that maybe nobody should pet him when we first enter the house? But then again, sometimes someone could be home for fifteen minutes and when they finally give him attention, he will end up peeing anyway. Not always, though. Or maybe he is just not fully potty trained. Of course that could be a possibility. I'm leaning towards submissive urination, though. The thing that gets me is that most research says that a puppy will grow out of this. Granted, he probably still has a little bit of pup in him, but I would've thought that he would've gotten over it by now.

Constant barking whenever he hears movement in the house I get it. Corgis bark. Dogs bark. However, if possible, I'd like to try to control the excessive amount of barking. I know how to train him not to bark on walks. We're still working on it, but it's definitely getting better. He generally barks at people and other dogs, but most of the time, we can gain his attention and address the problem. When we first adopted him, he wasn't much of a barker. Sure, he barked on walks, but that was it. About three weeks later, something just awakened in him that causes him to bark a lot. It happens most often when he is in my room, door shut or not. Whenever he hears a noise or any kind of movement outside of my room, he becomes fully alert. He'll either give a low growl and then bark or he will bark with no warning. On walks, I have an easier time controlling his bark because I know when to prevent it. When I'm sitting in my room, I have no idea when he is about to bark because he does not always give warning signs (alert ears/stance). Sometimes, he's just resting and then it comes out of no where. I can't tell what the reason of the barking is. I don't know if it's warning or anxiety or not. My mom will generally announce that it is just her and Jake will quickly calm down after that. However, I feel like she is rewarding him for barking because she is communicating with him whenever he barks.

We've had him for a month now. In my honest opinion, I was not happy with the shelter that we adopted him from. The staff was not very enthusiastic and negative. Only one woman was really confident and said great things about him. I don't know his history. I'm not sure if he experienced any trauma or abuse. I do know that he was returned at least once.

Yes, I've done research on the corgi before we adopted Jake. I'm just not well educated on how to address these two specific problems. Other than this, he is a fantastic dog. He learns tricks pretty fast. He knows his name very well. I will consider getting with a trainer if deem necessary, but I would like to see if I can fix it myself before I do that.

Feb 6, 2014 12 years ago
Dannica
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The peeing sounds like submissive urination to me. That's an issue I dealt with in my current dog although it sounds like she wasn't quite as bad about it as yours.

The big thing that I found helpful was to identify her triggers, and then manage them, hopefully breaking the set pattern of behavior along the way. Any time that you can avoid initiating pee mode is a win. For my dog, the first time you'd reach out towards her head after coming home was a major trigger, so I'd walk in the door and right out backdoor (basically ignoring her aside from letting her follow me out), wait a few minutes (she's super good about peeing outside pretty quickly after being let out and I always figured a mostly emptied bladder was always a good place to start), and then greet her. That way you don't have to clean up pee if the dog still triggers, and you don't wind up putting off "ugh, you're awful" vibes to the dog and reinforcing the anxiety and fear that are causing the issue in the first place. Another big help to avoid patting her head right off the bat. Something large reaching for a vulnerable blindspot can be scary! Instead, try a chest scratch to start with - it's much less threatening. Or if that's still too much contact for your dog, maybe try sitting on the floor and waiting for him to relax and initiate contact on his own. Every dog is different, but tracking what it is that sets your dog off and then finding an alternate behavior on your part really can do wonders. :)

It is so much easier to adjust your own behavior that it is to try and adjust a subconscious reaction on the dog's part, but through your actions it is possible to reshape the dog's reaction. It does take time though - my husband had a ridiculously hard time not patting our dog as soon as she greeted him at the door and wound up cleaning up pee every day for those first couple of weeks, lol. After he got on board with doing initial greetings (and potential peeing) outside and she'd had more time to adjust to us and the new location though, things got SO MUCH BETTER. After 2-3 months of the outside greetings she'd settled down to only peeing when the normal routine was upset, and after 6 months or so it really became a non issue in her case. I only do the outside routine if I've been gone on vacation or something and I expect her to be crazy excited.

Feb 6, 2014 12 years ago
Tali
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Cinthia

Thank you for your input!

Yea, he doesn't pee as soon as someone enters the house. He seems to only pee once somebody gives him attention by petting him. My mom and I have basically figured out what to do to try to prevent it, or at least minimize it. As soon as one of us get home, we let him outside immediately without making a fuss over him. Sometimes we'll go outside to pet him just to be safe. He sometimes has mistakes with us, but not frequently. It's my dad that seems to be the problem. I just don't think that he really gets it. I give him tips, but he either forgets them or ignores them. I tell him to not give Jake any attention as soon as he gets home. I tell him that if Jake looks the slightest bit fearful, to ignore him until he warms up. I've told him not to bend over Jake to pet him, because my dad is much taller than him so obviously that can be a bit scary for him. My dad kind of does some of these things, but he isn't consistent. But in my dad's defense, just last night, he had been home for several hours. He walked into my room with Jake following him. Jake jumped onto my bed, my dad was about to pet him, and then he peed. Thankfully, his dog bed was on top of my bed, so it only got onto his bed and was easy to clean up. But still, that threw me off. I have no idea why Jake did that. When it comes to my dad, it's gotta be the way that he is petting Jake that worries our dog. I wasn't watching my dad, so I didn't catch what he did to give Jake attention.

Some of it would be so much easier if this horrible winter would pass. My parents and guests don't find greeting my dog outside in this cold weather and snow very appealing, lol.

Feb 6, 2014 12 years ago
Aislin
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I would definitely agree that the peeing is submissive/fearful peeing, and it seems like your dog is especially fearful around your father, or perhaps men in general. First of all, many many dogs do not like being pet on the top of the head at all. Some do, but a lot merely tolerate it because they're getting attention and any attention is good. But for a timid or fearful dog, and especially for a short little dog like a Corgi, going over top of them is extremely intimidating. Counter-conditioning is going to be most effective for you I think.

So for example, if Jake will tolerate you petting him on the head, or even just holding a hand over top of him in general but doesn't like it very much, that'd be a great place to start. Get small training treats (Charlee Bear treats are great, or making your own dehydrated beef liver treats is another great option) and basically what you would do is do something that makes him slightly uncomfortable, like hovering a hand near his head, and treat when he tolerates it. Repeat until he seems fairly comfortable and then move to more of a challenge, like moving your hand closer or petting his head. Continue challenging and treating him. If he ever gets to a point of being fearful rather than uncomfortable, then go back a step and try again later. Usually such sessions are best kept short, like 15-20 minutes at most.

Also, someone needs to make it clear to your dad that he has to cooperate with training the dog. At some point the counter conditioning is going to need to include him so that dog can get over his fear. First of all, your dad needs to stop petting the dog on the head and/or looming over him. Every instance where the dog fear-pees sets a precedent for the dog that your dad is scary and peeing makes him go away. He should crouch down, and offer a hand palm-up at about the dog's chin-level, and the dog can choose to sniff him or walk away. Eventually the counter conditioning should progress to you and your dad and dog sitting on the floor getting treats, dad standing nearby while the dog gets treats, dad giving him treats, dad touching and giving treats, etc. It could take a few weeks or a few months until the dog is less fearful.

As for the barking.... how long have you had him? A lot of dogs seems to go through a phase of settling into a new house where they bark a lot. When we got our dog she barely made any noise for the first 2 weeks or so. Then she seemed to realize that this was her home and started barking at every noise in the hallway (we live in an apartment) and at everything outside. She would have a worried look on her face and worried body language, so I would just say "It's okay" in a soothing voice and give her calming signals. I don't know exactly when the behaviour stopped because it tapered off gradually, but now she only really barks if there is some unusual ruckus going on, which I think is perfectly reasonable. I guess what I'm saying is that if you haven't had him very long and his behaviour seems worried rather than attention seeking, he will probably benefit from being reassured more than being ignored (which would be correct if he was barking for attention-in which case he would look more excited and be focused on you or whomever he wanted attention from).

Some resources I would suggest for you are KikoPup's youtube channel and The Dog Forum

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Feb 7, 2014 12 years ago
Tali
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Cinthia

Thanks for the advice! You make some interesting points that I haven't thought of.

I didn't realize that some dogs don't like being pet on the head, but Jake acts like he really likes it. He does the thing where if you stop petting his head, he'll paw at your hand and nuzzle your hand with his nose for you to continue. So I don't think that's the problem. I think the problem is looming over him to pet him. He has no problems against men in general. In fact, my boyfriend and guy friend came over today. He has already met my bf, but never my other friend. He had absolutely no problem with them. He was excited to see them, even. However, they were willing to greet him outside (even though it was completely iced over, ha!) and neither of them got to the ground to pet him. They just let him come up to him. I was very pleased with how well Jake handled the situation. I know that Jake likes my dad. He likes to cuddle up next to him on the couch or lay in my dad's lap and let dad pet him. Just that initial greeting is what gets him. Some research suggested that the submissive urination can be a dog's way of showing that he is less dominant than his owners. I dunno if that is really the case or not. I've suggested Dad to keep some treats with him with his initial greeting with Jake. I will remind him about that. I will also keep your other ideas in mind and give them a shot!

As for the barking, yes, Jake sounds just like what your dog did. For the first two or three weeks, he was rather quiet. Just a week and a half ago at most, he began to bark at any kind of noise in the house. We've had him for a month now. His body language isn't fearful, though. I try to reassure him by saying "it's okay" but he completely ignores me and doesn't realize I'm here. I'm not sure if walking over and petting him would calm him down or end up being counter-productive by teaching him to keep barking. He doesn't bark for attention, though. I'm assuming that it will be something that will dwindle down as he becomes more comfortable in the house, but I wasn't really sure.

Feb 18, 2014 12 years ago
NannyQuen
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FritzyFroy

it's great you have figured out taking him out before greeting him. You may also want to try to use treats with him. Try to find a "high value" treat (a.k.a. delicious treat) and give it to the person who greets him. Practice this multiple times a day so he can get use to greeting people. If he ends up peeing, do not make a fuss because that will only make him feel worse. Try to use a high pitched and quieter voice. Do NOT look at him directly in the eyes because dogs see that as a sign of dominance and you don't want to make him feel more uncomfortable. When he does well with one person greeting him, use a new person to do the same. You have to continue this process and be very consistent! These things don't happen over night!

With the barking, I could be wrong, but it sounds like he is afraid of the noise. What kinds of noises are they? He may just be a dog sensitive to noise. In this case, you have to let him check out whatever is making the noise. As dumb as it may sound, you may have to get on the floor and pet/talk to whatever is making the noise. For example, if he scared of the vacuum, turn it off. Let him sniff it. Sit on the ground with him and lay the vacuum on the floor so it is not as intimidating standing up. By petting and talking to the vacuum, you are reassuring him that the vacuum isn't hurting you. If he can sniff the vacuum, treat him. Once you see he is more comfortable, you can turn the vacuum on for a second and see how he reacts. He may not like this, so you will need his favorite toy(s) and again TREATS. Treat him when he is behaving the way you want. Try hard not to be upset with him when he isn't doing what you want.

I train puppies for the blind and we sometimes have these problems. What we do is have CDs we play at a VERY LOW volume. These CDs have hundreds of noises such as babies crying, thunder, trains, etc. so the dogs can slowly get use to some of the sounds. This is something that is not done once or twice. You must be very consistent and it is a slow process, but certainly worth it. Good luck!

Feb 18, 2014 12 years ago
Tali
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Cinthia

The submissive urination is becoming better. It's definitely not as frequent, but we do make sure to let him outside frequently. He's enjoying the outdoors more now that it isn't so freezing cold outside, lol. He's still nervous around my dad. My dad has never done anything that would cause Jake to worry, so I am guessing that he may have had some past experience with a man that is causing him to act nervous. I still have to remind my dad to use treats every time he greets Jake until Jake understands that my dad means no harm, but yea. It's odd because for the first two weeks, Jake loved my dad. Then all of a sudden, he's generally always nervous around him. I dunno, we are still working on it. But it's weird, because my boyfriend is taller than my dad and Jake loves him. Jake likes my other guy friends. He only acts nervous around my dad. On rare occasion, he will act submissive when I first greet him, so I simply ignore him and let him come up to me once he's comfortable. I told dad to do the same.

As for the barking, he just simply barks at any kind of movement. It's mainly whenever he hears my family members walking around. When my mom is walking through the hallway, when my brother walks back and forth from the bathroom and his bedroom multiple times late at night (he has autism) or when someone is walking up the stairs. Once he sees that it's just one of the family members, he is fine. I could be wrong, but I'm assuming he thinks that there is some kind of threat that is causing him to be alert, growl, and sometimes bark. But at the same time, he can't be barking at midnight or 1 in the morning. I've let him walk around the house when it's just my brother to help Jake get used to the sounds of family members simply walking around the house, but I don't want him bothering my brother when he is just doing part of his routine.

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