Duality Quests: More Context

Earlier today we updated what was once the Cursed Quests to be the Duality Quests. I'd like to provide more context into why that change was made, why it's been so long in the making, and how we can move on in a positive way going forward.

First, users brought up the issues regarding how Mori and Nori were portrayed so this brainstorm thread so born. If you look at the date, you can see it was created well over a year ago and users brought it up before that. It's unacceptable that we took so long to address this. While yes, our team is small and incredibly stretched thin, it shouldn't have taken us the amount of time it did. We as a team have a problem with breaking tasks up into smaller things; we always want to do everything at once. In this case, we really thought it made the most sense and was the most respectful to get everything changed at once. It was clearly not the right way to go about things, and I personally want to apologize to those I put off with my "we're working on it" generic comments.

Now, what was the issue with Nori and Mori?

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"Mori and Nori as well as items relating to them have been changed due to the use of terminology that is offensive to those with Dissociative Identity Disorder. While they were not meant to be a direct representation of the disorder, many users have voiced their concerns that the inherent nature of her backstory alongside it being painted in a negative light opened up a lot of opportunities for offensive language being used throughout the site. Since Mori and Nori are such an accessible and essential part of the site, having things like this at the forefront may reenforce the thought that the usage of these terms is acceptable and normalized, which is not what&;s wanted at all in a site that seeks to be inclusive and diverse."

This was beautifully said by user who has experience with DID and has been a champion for educating the staff and users. I asked them to sum up what the problem for users without having to read the entire suggestion thread.

We've updated the text for the Mori and Nori quests (the intro text, the turn in text, the failed quest, the reward text), the quest shop text, the subetapedia main entry about the two as well as the quick facts listed in the quest givers list, and various items around the site. We've also renamed the achievements associated with Mori and Nori. Did we miss something? Please ping me () so I can adjust it.

In the future, I will actively try to not offer excuses ("our team is small" "our focus is on a holiday") and will do my best to work with users to get things updated in a timely manner. This isn't always possible, of course, but I personally could have done a lot better job with this particular issue.

Why does this all matter? Like 's quote says, we really do strive to be inclusive and diverse. We don't want to have things on site that upset users in a negative way like this. It's one thing to not like an item because you think spiders (or something similar) are scary, it's another to have to deal with an item promoting negative stereotypes to a mental health disorder you may have. By not addressing user concerns about Mori and Nori in a timely matter, we as staff made part of our user base feel unheard and unimportant which is never what we want. We've adjusted items with a quick turn around before (Algonquin Plushie comes to mind) and the fact we took over a year to make these changes was plain wrong.

Why post a new news post instead of just adding another comment to the earlier post? The users who brought up the issue with Mori and Nori, continued to fight for the change, and actively tried to educate users and staff deserve this post. They deserve to be publicly acknowledged for the work they did.

September 22, 2023, 10:23 pm by Rat
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thank you for the explanation in this post and taking accountability in the delay and the generic responses, i admit the situation was frustrating to me, i don't have DID but i have friends that do, and i also generally think that being welcoming and inclusive is very important, so i was happy to add my voice to the users requesting this change.

i do hope that the team takes this to heart, i know how much it sucks having a lot to do with a small team, but i do hope that you guys are able to address little things in a more timely manner going forward. as i mentioned (somewhat tangentially) on the mono ri board, it seems like the forums with requests for changes to items (namely the Item Name/Description Update thread and Make this a Book/Food/Minion/Toy thread) haven't had much attention for some time as well, I hope some time can be spent doing small changes requested there as well :)

September 22, 2023, 10:12 pm by sggkloosemo
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Super cool of you to make a post and be so transparent about it.

September 22, 2023, 10:04 pm by Kallisti
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Hooray hooray! I’m glad y’all did this.

September 22, 2023, 10:03 pm by Tiobe
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In a world that is increasingly frustrating, it’s lovely to me that Subeta doubles down on their commitment to inclusivity 💗 awesome work, Amber (et al). and huzzah for new lore ✨

September 22, 2023, 9:55 pm by Serena
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Thank you again Amber! Really glad that this has been tackled in a mature manner.

September 22, 2023, 9:54 pm by Someone
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I was happy seeing them switched from being cursed and maybe this could be why. Dissociative disorders do get a lot of negative attention so glad there’s some positive for them 😊

September 22, 2023, 9:54 pm by Someone
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I was happy seeing them switched from being cursed and maybe this could be why. Dissociative disorders do get a lot of negative attention so glad there’s some positive for them 😊

September 22, 2023, 9:50 pm by FyreNWater
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Thank you for the updates. Love to see growth, learning, and changes for the better! Let's all strive to be inclusive and welcoming! <3

September 22, 2023, 9:41 pm by stars_water
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Maybe this? It looks related.

September 22, 2023, 9:35 pm by Runasutaru
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Oh. What a funny coincidence, then! I can't believe Nori and Mori caused you trouble at the last minute like that. Tsk! Naughty girls.

September 22, 2023, 9:31 pm by Amber
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Someone brought this up in the discord, ! I think I'll end up removing it from the achievement and release it again in another fashion in the future. Maybe collection cursed antique items or something we have on site. I'll look into it when I'm back from Shabbat (which I'm totally leaving to do now).

Actually, it had nothing to do with the weekend quest. That's completely random and if anything was more of a hassle to deal with when updating everything today (changing the real time weekend quest instead of just setting it up for future instances). I did promise y'all by end of Summer and I did my best to meet that!

September 22, 2023, 9:29 pm by Runasutaru
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I sensed the choice and timing of the weekend bonus quest was heralding the change (as per the most-recently promised date on the forums), and I'm glad I was right.

Perhaps I am mistaken in this observation, but the insistence on making the changes all in one go feels like perfectionism took hold of the staff. There are times where it's definitely worth working towards exceeding expectations and putting out pristine results, but there are others — like this one — where making the achievement-name change early on and then chipping at other sections over months and years would have yielded better results with both the writing efforts and the community; listening closely to users' wishes early on in the forum thread would've made that clear. Regardless, I am glad the change was made, overdue as it was.

September 22, 2023, 9:27 pm by Laurey
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The Duality Quests achievement (which is retired, so you probably need to select the "retired" option to view it even with the link) has had the achievement name updated, but the forum title associated with it is still the Cursed title.

I'm not sure how to best address this because the achievement itself is currently retired, so no one new can actually obtain it, and I'm sure some people who already have it really like the Cursed title and would want to keep it. So I don't know if some other achievement could be created that gives that forum title and just remove it from the old achievement? Not sure how all of that works on the backed, but it's just a semi-issue that still exists because of the changes (which overall I do agree with and am glad for staff listening to player concerns).

September 22, 2023, 9:26 pm by FCoD
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Just one more reason why I love this site.

September 22, 2023, 9:19 pm by Narshe
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I'm glad this topic was treated with the utmost respect and care, despite how long it took to address it. I hope others also understand why this change was made and see it isn't harming the site to be more inclusive and accepting of revisions. Change is good! Especially in this regard. ♡

September 22, 2023, 9:15 pm by Pandaslowpoke
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The Description for the Starlight Spirit from their quest shop has a typo/weird phrasing.It starts like the old description did, then jumps awkwardly to describing what the spirits do in a way that makes it ambigous as to wether it's talking about the spirit or Mori's spirits

September 22, 2023, 9:06 pm by Jayme
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I love this, I love Subeta, and I love y'all... thank you <3

September 22, 2023, 9:05 pm by fun
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thank you everyone for the positive response, and thank you to members of the DID community that have spoken up alongside each other to get this changed.

September 22, 2023, 9:02 pm by Amber
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Thanks, . Updated that!

September 22, 2023, 9:01 pm by Avel
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The Duality quest shop has the Split Beanbag. The description seems fine but you may want to update the name to match everything else.

September 22, 2023, 9:00 pm by Amber
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If you come across any bits of the site (items, text somewhere) that still uses the old language for Mori and Nori please ping me and let me now. I won't be online for the next 24 hours or so due to Shabbat, but will update things when I get back online. :)

September 22, 2023, 8:53 pm by Sensuous
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i appreciate that we can have respectful conversations and admit errors. we are all on the same team. thanks to both parties for helping better our site. :)

September 22, 2023, 8:51 pm by EvilRedDuckie
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Thank you to and everyone else - including for working so hard and tirelessly to make sure we have a truly inclusive place full of love to share with each other. ❤ :D

September 22, 2023, 8:50 pm by Emi
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thanks Amber for all your effort!

September 22, 2023, 8:49 pm by Lypsyl
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Thank you for making the change, and I appreciate the apology for the time it took to make it happen.

September 22, 2023, 8:48 pm by Amber
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(I included in the news post because they were okay with their name being used. I did not include the names of users who kept pushing for the change, but you can see them all on that thread posting multiple times!)

September 22, 2023, 8:46 pm by Slowerthanzero
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I think this is well put and explains everything very clearly and nicely! Thank you~!

September 22, 2023, 8:46 pm by DivineSimulacrum
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Amazing post. Being a returning user I had no idea about the lore or identity of Nori and Mori but after reading this post and more about them, I love that this change was made. While I don’t have DID personally, many friends close to me do, and this inclusion is nice to see in the worlds that I choose to live among.

September 22, 2023, 8:45 pm by Damon
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Thank you for this updated and informative post!

September 22, 2023, 8:45 pm by Theatre
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Thank you so much, , for putting your time and effort into this explanation. And thanks again to staff!

September 22, 2023, 8:45 pm by smile
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Thanks for the accountability and the great explanation. It's very appreciated!

September 22, 2023, 8:45 pm by Sweetheart
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it’s very cautious & caring of you guys to change the name to duality, very beautiful. ❤️

September 22, 2023, 8:45 pm by sushi
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I like the name more. But moreover, I think it is awesome to listen to users and strive for inclusivity and solidarity. Thank you guys. <3

September 22, 2023, 8:43 pm by Paradise
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Great post! Thank you for explaining!

September 22, 2023, 8:42 pm by Weesha
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Well put! Thank you!

September 22, 2023, 8:42 pm by Ipsi
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Duality is a much cooler name!

September 22, 2023, 8:42 pm by Senti
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Thank you for explaining it!!

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