Quest Shop: Pride Sashes

June 26, 2018, 6:13 pm by

(i certainly showed up at an interesting time. yikes! sorry.)

June 26, 2018, 6:12 pm by

lovely stuff. c:

June 26, 2018, 6:07 pm by

It’s more comparable than wigs and hair colors as far as discrimination goes.

You’re welcome to have a seat and celebrate Hanukkah, but don’t make it about Christmas when it’s clearly about Hanukkah.

June 26, 2018, 6:03 pm by

Religion ≠ Sexuality Surely coming off screaming and forcing the views of your own over other is purely rude, but asking for a seat is completely different.

June 26, 2018, 6:02 pm by

If someone asks for a special heterosexual representation during a pride celebration, they fundementallly misunderstand the purpose of said celebration, and to continue to do so is ignorant. Consider the persecution and the amount of fighting that has happened to make the marginalized spotlight even possible. Many of us are beyond acting “civil” when the world is at the fingertips of everyone and yet childish notions prevail.

June 26, 2018, 5:58 pm by

Oof, just read all the comments and... not gonna get into ace discourse. (I'm biased: as an aro I absolutely believe ace+aro ppl belong at pride but I'm not touching it beyond that.)

I do want to talk about pansexuality+bisexuality, though!

While I can't say my opinion on it is correct or even widely accepted it's what I've come to understand it as and what's helped shape my identity and how I relate to these labels (pan and bi). Please feel free to correct me or weigh in, but please do so knowing I mean no disrespect in what I'm about to say.

I've viewed pan as being attraction with no thought to gender identity/gender identity being "irrelevant" or secondary. ie: attracted to traits regardless of who they're on/a part of or not having a preference with genders.

I've viewed bi as having certain gendered attractions (for example, maybe liking girls with short hair but not having any particular feelings/attractions about anyone of other genders having short hair), or basically preference where gender isn't "irrelevant" or secondary, although that doesn't limit who you can/do find attractive.

(I put irrelevant in quotations bc I don't want to sound dismissive of people's gender identity, as to many it's a very important part of who they are! I just can't think of a more expressive way to convey my point, so I apologize for that.)

So basically I see a difference in how the attraction manifests itself, not in who you can be attracted to. So it has nothing to do with "2 genders" or "includes trans ppl" (which both are just... transphobic and super problematic, obvs), which I feel is important to at least share my view on as I don't look down on or side-eye anyone using either of these and after seeing some discussions on the more problematic interpretations of both of these I thought it might be worth sharing my take on it.

Not looking to step on any toes though, and I can only speak for myself. ❤️

June 26, 2018, 5:49 pm by

These items are gorgeous. And reading 95% of these comments fills me with so much happiness because genuinely good people are THRILLED at their creation! And that's GREAT! But wow, there certainly does appear to be a lot of unnecessary hate being directed at the cis/het crowd that isn't deserved.

It seems to me that all the people inquiring about the hetero flag have generally been issuing non-judgmental questions. And that these folks are unaware of some of the more political ugliness associated with said questions. And after some civil explanations of why the inquiries aren't welcome, everyone seems to be walking away a little more educated, and a little more understanding. This is good! Conversation can be good!

But... I have also been seeing the cis/het crowd being called ignorant, whiny, uneducated assholes. And being told to go "die mad about it." Maybe I missed it, or maybe the comments were deleted, but for the life of me, I didn't see anyone whining. No one was "demanding" to be included. In fact, I really didn't see anything particularly nasty being directed AT the LGBT community. So I really don't know how this much anger was infused into the conversation.

There are going to continue to be questions about why there is no hetero sash. And you know why? Right now, it's not because of malice or meanness- it's because there are 250 freaking comments in this news post, and very few people want to read them all. There are plenty of people who haven't encountered the issues that are discussed here, and plenty of people who could stand to learn more. But they shouldn't be automatically shit on. By all means, correct misconceptions, educate others on nuances, and discuss the inner workings of these topics. But be civil!

And full disclaimer, not that it's anyone's business, but I am bi. I'd like to think I'm speaking from the perspective of someone who just wants to get along with everyone...

June 26, 2018, 5:47 pm by

As an heteromantic ace, I understand the feeling of exclusion. There should be a het flag so everyone can be happy. I don't see the point of exclusion.

June 26, 2018, 5:46 pm by

Really appreciative of the lesbian flag. Femme lesbians are invisible even within the community, and the flag itself is rarely used or recognized; I went to one of the largest prides in the country this past weekend and saw exactly three girls wearing those colors, compared to easily hundreds of bi/pan females and dozens upon dozens of ace flags.

I'm gonna die alone with a concerning number of cats because no gay women ever suspect I also happen to be into chicks, but at least I get 'dat pixel sash.

June 26, 2018, 5:44 pm by

didn't you get the memo? we're turning lgbt into a closed club for cool separatist kidz. fite the cishets. the community totally has enough social, financial, and political / voting power to afford being rude to everyone else and pulling the oppression card every other sentence.

June 26, 2018, 5:42 pm by

If not LGBTQA+ people want to be included, they can be there as allies. Otherwise, this isn't for them, and that's just how it is. They have tons and tons of representation and celebration everywhere else, in places made for them, by them, that aren't accepting to us. If they want said representation and celebration, they can go to those places and celebrate their straight-ness there.

Until the time comes when we truly can celebrate ourselves in those spaces without fear of persecution, discrimination, harm and hate, then things will just have to be separate. It's not like it's race-related segregation or anything, jfc-- it's the LGBTQA+ community having their time and place.

June 26, 2018, 5:38 pm by

Would you march into someone’s Hanukkah celebration chanting “MERRY CHRISTMAS”? No, because that’s disrespectful. Sometimes equality is about respecting differences and knowing the time and place to be lauded.

June 26, 2018, 5:36 pm by

Would you march into a Hanukkah celebration shouting “MERRY CHRISTMAS” and waving a san

June 26, 2018, 5:31 pm by

equality leaving people who truely want to be included into off because of a bunchful of uneducated people in both sides

pick one

June 26, 2018, 5:27 pm by

It's okay. :) And I guess you have a point, it's just that I've never seen the point in trying to exclude or put down anyone that I would like to agree with me. I mean... all that does is put people on the defensive, you know? That's just my thoughts. I try to apply that to all areas of my life, but obviously I'm not going to force anyone to do the same.

June 26, 2018, 5:22 pm by

It was a typo, I was using a general "you" before I read that you were ace-- my apologies. We all want acceptance, dude. But as things are right now, some people are a lot more accepted than others, and those people need to come together, celebrate their unity and resilience and pride... even if that means shutting out the people who typically oppress, misunderstand, and persecute us. They can be allies all they want for a few different reasons, but they don't get to be celebrated for being straight.

Someone brought it up previously: It's not unlike "white pride". Veeeeery similar thing going on there.

June 26, 2018, 5:19 pm by

THANK YOU so much for not forgettnig the lesbian flag oh my god!! im a gay guy but i hate having to see my sisters in the community get ignored all the gd time... i love these so much! changing my HA immediately

June 26, 2018, 5:17 pm by

I’m ace/aro, so happy we were included in this as we’re usually ignored at best. I’m also happily surprised to see this is far less ace hate than I expected.

June 26, 2018, 5:16 pm by

I hope you're using the royal "you", because I already stated that I'm not heterosexual and you're kind of jumping down my throat like I don't know what we're going through. I understand that you're angry, but I'm not sure I'm the target of your anger. I want the fighting to end. There doesn't need to be a divide, and there's no reason for revenge. I am who I am, you are who you are, and my neighbor is who he is. We're people. Some of us like girls, some like guys, some like both, some like nobody, and others are more nuanced. I just don't see a reason to fight over it, when ultimately what we want is to be accepted.

June 26, 2018, 5:13 pm by

*That celebrate.. them. Whatever. typos. words.

tl;dr next person to complain about "why no straight pride sash????" is getting fed to my . there doesn't need to be a straight pride sash + you can't compare sexualities/romantic preferences/gender identities to hair colors (because you don't discriminate seriously against people with different haircolors, wtf?), and if there's any item relating to "straight pride" I hope it's an extremely sarcastic item

June 26, 2018, 5:12 pm by

The end goal is that, yes. But pride month is for celebrating differences and letting the people who have been the outgroup for so, so long take the spotlight. The ostracized, the marginalized. That includes asexuals, it does not include cissexual heterosexuals.

If you want to compare it to providing a service for certain people but not others, I’d say it’s more comparable to something like a soup kitchen. People who can’t afford food are welcome, but if you’re perfectly capable of providing for yourself, why should you get a free pass, too? And even then it’s not the same, because heterosexuals are welcome to come celebrate with us. Just don’t ask for a flag to wave, too, because just isn’t the place for it. .

June 26, 2018, 5:11 pm by

What omg_carrie said ^_^ plus it gives us an excuse to make lots of swag with the card suits [img align=center]https://i.pinimg.com/236x/fd/1c/27/fd1c27c9d6fdca9ddbb392c250270c8a--asexual-aesthetic-damian-wayne.jpg[/img]

June 26, 2018, 5:11 pm by

And to Subeta I want to say: thank you. I wish everyone had a way to be included, but thank you for what you gave us. It means a lot. :)

June 26, 2018, 5:07 pm by

The flags are for celebrating sexualities and gender identities that have suffered and been persecuted throughout history; they're a symbol to our resilience, our communities, our survival and our continued existence in a world that gives us adversity.

Heterosexuals don't need a flag because they are accepted as the "default" and the "majority".They have so many things that celebrate you already: basically every book or movie has a heterosexual love story in it nowadays, they can hold hands and show their pride without being questioned or bothered while walking down the street, and they don't have laws, restrictions, criticisms and discriminations aimed at them just because they're straight.

This may sound mean, but that's because I'm really, really tired of people here arguing "but I'm het, where's my flag" when you haven't suffered and faced adversity because you're straight. They don't get one when you already have popular society on your side by default. Too bad.

June 26, 2018, 5:07 pm by

Hey, just want to point this out! :) It's not really possible to be a cishet asexual. The point of asexuality is that you don't feel sexual attraction at all, so you wouldn't be attracted to the opposite sex. As an asexual, I have had deep romantic relationships (emotional connection, huggles and such) with women and men, but never have experienced sexual attraction. Don't worry, we get this misunderstanding a lot. That's why we're not welcome with the LGBT community or the Heterosexual community. We're liars, we're sick, we haven't met the right one, it's just mental illness, suck it up buttercup. It really hurts, and "corrective rape" happens to us too. We need acceptance, too.

June 26, 2018, 4:59 pm by

Thank you all so, so much for these! To everyone: whoever thought of, pitched, approved, drew, coloured, or any other step of the process I'm missing; I'm really appreciative to any staff that had a hand in making these become reality! (And to those who support it even if you didn't directly get them made aha.)

I'm going to be getting so many, both for myself and for various pet TCs.

And I hope this doesn't come off as selfish or ungrateful but if there's any plans to make more in the future I'll go ahead and cast in my request for an aromantic one! ❤️

June 26, 2018, 4:58 pm by

As an asexual who faces and has faced all manner of grief for it from both het and lgbt (so happy for the ace flag), I still wish there was a het flag. It's just logical. Excluding one is like releasing a line of wigs in red, black, blonde, and gray. The people with brown hair will naturally frown and say "hey... where's mine? :( ". Well, you don't get one because your hair color is common and some of you hate gingers. All that does is further fuel animosity and create a divide where there doesn't need to be one.

In the end, we want everyone to be accepted, don't we? I thought the end-goal was for it to not be a big deal at all, like eye color or height. Was I incorrect in that thinking?

June 26, 2018, 4:38 pm by

Thank you guys for the Bisexual flag!!! There's been nothing but hate and aggressive arguments over my sexuality. It's awesome to see the representation!

June 26, 2018, 4:28 pm by

Aaaaaaa, this is so cool!! Thank you for this, Subeta, and thank you so much for including Asexuality in this too, it's a comforting relief given how much a certain discourse has gone on on some... other sites. ;7;

I'm grabbin' all of these for sure~

June 26, 2018, 4:23 pm by

I wonder what color a demisexual sash would be? Not nit picking. Just curious.

June 26, 2018, 4:22 pm by

; it's like one of those shitposting/cringe groups.

June 26, 2018, 4:13 pm by

these are adorable period. dat's all i have to say. a+ staff.

June 26, 2018, 4:13 pm by

first Vegarten and now this thread, the drama is so good lately it revived my interest in the site

June 26, 2018, 3:59 pm by

Ahaha. Oh. Wow. This blew up when I was asleep. A lot of other people are addressing the "I feel uncomfortable when not about me!" het/cis pride thing, and I think it's pretty obvious that the kink stuff is purely Jokes, so. Uh. Here's something I need to say.

Being intersex and being LGBT are fairly different matters. You can be proud and/or comfortable with being intersex, you can be LGBT and intersex, but it doesn't really make you LGBT by being intersex. I have a minor intersex condition (hormonal issues mostly) and its effects can make my life hell on earth, give me a lot of discomfort about my appearance and body, and I honestly hate every second of it. I'm LGBT because I'm a lesbian, not because of this. I don't doubt that others might want to feel pride for their conditions and appearance, and that, yeah, it does break a lot of "accepted" gender and presentation stuff in society, but it's... not something everyone celebrates being.

June 26, 2018, 3:42 pm by

I simply made a request for Bear and Leather sashes next year. Nowhere did I say they were to do with sexuality or gender.

June 26, 2018, 3:39 pm by

I'm curious about what will be the next Subeta's Polemic™ new feature

June 26, 2018, 3:37 pm by

-sidesteps drama- when it's said out loud, the first syllable of "asexual" sounds kinda like "ace" so I assume that's why it's shortened to "ace"! :)

June 26, 2018, 3:29 pm by

To those of you asking for a het pride flag:

You don't get a het pride because my bisexual behind is sitting here closeted in my own workplace and home because every single one of my coworkers constantly refers to the one other LGBT officemate as "the f slur". You don't get a het pride because your entire sexuality and therefor your life isn't illegal depending on the region you're in, or at the very least ignored by lawmakers and citizens alike in even the most gay-friendly of places. You don't get a het pride because the most I've ever been discriminated against while in a heterosexual relationship was by people who called me not queer enough, or greedy, or indecisive, or having a gay phase - all because I'm bi, not straight. You don't get a het pride because I bet you're mad right now at the "snappiness" of my response, when you've failed to do the slightest bit of research on the meaning and hatefulness behind """"heterosexual pride"""" other than seeing an outgroup that has been ostracized and hated and systemically killed for centuries finally getting their day and deciding you want to whine about not being included. As if this comment of mine and others like it aren't the most you've heard in anger against your sexuality, and even then the anger is directed at your ignorance (which you have control over) and sexuality (which you most certainly do not).

If you think a het pride flag is a good idea, read a book. If you think the rest of us showing our pride is offensive, or just something someone should keep to themselves so we can "all get along," PLEASE read a book. If you want to show support for the LGBT community, ask for ally representation, not a cishet pride one.

If you still think cishet pride is a good idea, you're probably very angry with me right now. And you know what? I don't care. My people have been stepped on for too long and I'm sick and tired of it. I don't see any nightclubs being shot up because straight people exist, soooo "die mad about it."

June 26, 2018, 3:26 pm by

looks like i did jinx it my dude...

June 26, 2018, 3:26 pm by

It's really cool to see these new items here, and they look really nice too! I'm glad to see an ace pride one as well!

Though I'm none of the above, I am an ally <3

June 26, 2018, 3:26 pm by

Fair enough! I hadn't thought about it that way since I assumed nb to be under the trans umbrella, and it didn't occur to me that some nb people may not id as trans. Thanks for the insight. :o) That's what I hope to get by commenting is not just to say my part but to hear other points of view. I get it now. ❤

June 26, 2018, 3:26 pm by

Love these! It's often said that Aces should be excluded - thanks Subeta for not doing so, it was great to see all of these but I was extra-pleased to see the Ace one.

June 26, 2018, 3:25 pm by

The gender and sexual orientation of a person who faces discrimination is what pride is about. Thanks for showing why ace and nb people deserve representation at pride.

June 26, 2018, 3:23 pm by

Oh look, THERE is the unnecessary, unwelcome, and illogical ace discourse. Here's the thing: If your argument is that a marginalized group doesn't deserve representation, you shouldn't be making it no matter what you think your 'point' is.

June 26, 2018, 3:18 pm by

I just want to point out that even though the white stripe in the trans flag represents non binary identities, not all non binary people actually identify as trans. I personally don't, it's complicated and personal but I wouldn't feel comfortable using the trans flag when I don't identify as trans. Also, the trans flag alone is more associated with being binary trans than being non binary so having a separate flag can be quite useful. Just wanted to tack that on.

June 26, 2018, 3:15 pm by

YAY! Thank you so much for all of them, they are so amazing! I'm so excited!

June 26, 2018, 3:12 pm by

yeah pansexuality was basically promoted with the whole "bi means 2" thing and i myself bought into it back then tbh but since when the bi community spoke up about it and the definition got edited bi and pan have been two different terms for the same sexuality lmao... but a lot of people still insist on IDing as pan and it's like ¯(ツ)/¯ what can we do? like, they even got a comparatively widely recognized flag and all, unlike let's say intersex people. lol

June 26, 2018, 3:04 pm by

I was so happy to see this, especially a lesbian flag bc it's so often left out, but the whole thing is kinda a downer between the comments and the inclusion of a non-lgbt identity like ace. Nothing wrong with being ace, I fall into that category myself, but it's not inherently LGBT. If you are gay and ace, or trans and ace, you're LGBT, but if you are a cishet asexual you're not. Disappointed to see the flag here.

It would have been smart of staff to do an L, a G, a B, and a T and leave it at that, just cover the bases because now its opened the floodgates of people asking for kinks and heterosexual pride and other random stuff. It's too late to get rid of any of the ones that are already made, but all I can say to staff is to PLEASE not include hetero flags, or kinks, or things the well-meaning super-inclusive people try to add like intersex. I am intersex and it's a medical disorder, not a gender. We can be cis or trans. We almost unanimously agree on not being included. And its really frustrating and othering to have non-intersex people pushing for us to be 'included.' As for the well-meaning super-inclusive people I understand they don't mean harm and having been hurt or left out themselves, they don't want anyone else to feel that way, and it's sweet. I don't have any ill-will towards the people who try to include everyone bc it comes from a good place.

I'm nonbinary and I don't have anything against the NB flag, there isn't anything wrong with it, but the white stripe in the trans flag represents nonbinary people, so its a tad unnecessary. As for pan, I really don't like it bc bisexual has always meant 2 or more genders and since pan came around people have been redefining bisexuality to make them seem different. They're the same. People are free to id as they wish, but I've already seen people define bisexuality incorrectly in the comments. I've also seen people say that pan includes attraction to trans people, which is so bad. Trans people aren't a monolith or another gender and every sexuality includes trans people. If you are a lesbian like me you would date cis or trans women. Straight men would do the same. Everyone can date trans people. Just try to be accurate and respectful with your definitions when explaining identities to others.

I know that these may be controversial opinions, but everyone deserves a chance to say their piece and I don't mean any harm. I'm not here to fight or argue so I won't be responding to anyone angry at me in the comments. I just wanted my voice to be heard. These are all complex intra-community issues, and we aren't always going to agree on everything. That's ok. We can agree to disagree.

I applaud staff for doing anything pride-related in the first place and I realize how hard it is to research identities and flags esp if you don't belong to a group yourself, (no one person can be in EVERY group.) I also know that new identities are made all the time, along with new flags, and acronyms and not everyone is on the same page and its hard to know what to use. I also understand that doing too few flags would get complaints about not being inclusive enough, and doing too many will get people like me saying that you've done too much and gone too far in an effort to be inclusive. That's just from LGBT people. They're gonna get garbage from bigots who are anti-LGBT and some comments from ignorant but maybe not malicious cishets upset about not being included. It's potential they don't understand the implications of asking for a cis flag or a het flag and they're just used to always being included. Regardless, it was a genuine and kind effort by staff to do pride items knowing that they will surely upset people and not be able to please everyone and I appreciate them doing it anyway in order to show support. It does mean a lot and I don't mean to be ungrateful.

The last comment I have to make is a small one, but the lesbian flag used is the lipstick lesbian flag without the kiss, and recently the community has made a new flag to be more inclusive of all lesbians and not just femmes. It would be so great to see an item using these colors, but I understand why that would be a big ask, especially since we already have a lesbian item and this flag is so new. It's here if you want to see it: https://78.media.tumblr.com/2a37387600572e3f19d78399c3fb5bd3/tumblr_p9vtfwlU4u1wiachwo2_1280.jpg

Final reminder, that while we may not always agree, it doesn't mean I don't love and support my community and I don't mean any harm. Just wanted to state my opinions and its ok if we don't feel the same way. Happy pride, and thanks to staff for the valiant effort. ❤

June 26, 2018, 2:48 pm by

Brands during Pride month: "How you doing fellow gays?"rainbow icon

June 26, 2018, 2:41 pm by

aaa im in love!! thank you so much for these <3

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Quest Shop: Pride Sashes

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