Neugarten, the new Alegarten

June 22, 2018 4:11 pm

Summer is here, my liebchens, und look at this sunshine! There's nothing I like more than sharing food, drink und good times with old friends und new friends under ze sun, ja? I am very excited this year because I am getting to see you early, und also because I am finally able to really turn over ze new leaf und go full vegan! Saying goodbye to my old ways was tough, but rewarding. It was ze right time for me, und even if it isn't ze right time for you to make ze full switch or being vegan isn't something you're into or able to do, I hope you'll come und enjoy some new foods und ideas during this festival.

A new leaf requires a new name, ja, so I'd like to welcome you all to celebrate Neugarten with me! I’ll be grilling up hot food und vegan ale und beer over at Gunter's Grill, und two others from ze vegan community are joining me to sell some awesome vegan products. Manwar from ze Trading Card Center is here selling many packaged vegan ingredients und replacements, from non-dairy milks to his favorite hummus recipes, und Rumi from Stick it to ze Man! is here selling various Fashion und Lifestyle items. Just a taste of vegan life right now, hopefully, next year we can come back bigger und even better!

My niece, Anne, asked me if she could stand in for me to sell some of our old products, which I'm pleased for her to do, I like having my niece around! I also love all my customers, und hope you will try new things as well as ze old!

Come along, enjoy some new food und we're here for questions if you're interested in learning more. We’ll be here until July 3rd at 11:59PM!

June 23, 2018, 1:47 am by

As a vegan I’m loving the new vegan themed items - but I had to giggle because only one of the foods or dishes I eat on a daily basis were featured (I guess I’m odd) If the artists ever get stuck on what to make for this holiday in the future...poke me. I’m happy to share :)

June 23, 2018, 1:46 am by

[qoute=]I don't mean to sound ungrateful! I just was hoping for less of the like... "othering" that comes with being vegan/veggie, not everyone who lives/eats like that is all "rarara I am a warrior and you are bad if you are eating meat or other animal products!!" and it's a stigma that I want to help eliminate :3[/quote]

Oh my gosh yes. I am vegetarian and I say you can eat whatever you like it's your decision just like it my decision to eat what I want ^_^

June 23, 2018, 1:45 am by

I agree with everyone that are saying a pride-related event would've been better. I would have loved to see much more in terms of stickers, wearables and other things with a pride theme.

If it wasn't for the fact that I have collections to complete and a gourmand pet that I want to feed 1 of everything to (although as a fan of meat he would rather avoid this stuff) I wouldn't even bother with this "event"...

June 23, 2018, 1:44 am by

https://subeta.net/ss.php/brewery#/shop/Geschenkboutique -- it's hard to see the links in the news post (at least, it is for me), but "my niece asked [...] to sell our old products" is a link to the old brewery

June 23, 2018, 1:43 am by

So many passive-aggressive items aimed at meat eaters.. It's starting to feel like if you're not a part of a minority you don't deserve any respect.

June 23, 2018, 1:40 am by

Wow, I was looking forward to the old wearables since I couldn't afford them all before, but I guess that's no longer an option (unless Staff said something about them being relocated, because I couldn't them among the debates).

June 23, 2018, 1:30 am by

I wonder if anyone has counted how many “judgmental vegans” posted repeatedly in the comments every time non-vegan food was released at literally every other Subeta holiday. Versus how many people are criticizing this one because...vegan.

When I was 19, I had a bumper sticker on my car that said “Vegetarian: Indian word for lousy hunter” (umm..problematic in so many ways) and talked shit about “judgmental vegans” whenever it came up, even though the vegans I knew were totally cool and put up with the unfounded criticism and constant commentary on what they’d eat on an island, or if they had a gun to their head or how I could never live without cheese. And then I saw some shit I couldn’t unsee and I went vegan. And now I hear the constant commentary and have “friends” and family who literally serve me food with meat or dairy in it and tell me to eat around it or straight up lie and say it’s not there. People find out from others I’m vegan and will approach ME to tell me why it’s unhealthy, judgmental, stupid. There’s fifty people in the building where I work, less than ten know I’m vegan and there are folks that I’ve worked with for over five years that have no idea. I’ve seen a half dozen people at potlucks with food I made on their plates make comments along the lines of “thank god there’s no vegans here.”

Vegans who treated me disrespectfully before I was vegan - zero Non-vegans who’ve treated me disrespectfully since I went vegan - too effing many to count

Jerks and blowhards come in all shapes and sizes, vegan or not. If you’re getting your opinion of vegans from internet comments or one dude you know, then it’s your loss for not taking the time to know the other awesome people around you that just might be vegan. Seriously, guys...vegan food is inclusive. And no one said you have to wear the merch.

June 23, 2018, 1:28 am by

Glad to see Alegarten return.

Sad to see the name change especially to Neugarten. Neu is new in German so at some point will the festival be renamed Altgarten? (Alt being old in German). I think Alegarten as a name was good as it was relevant to what was being celebrated. Maybe with more food related items being added a name that had more to do with food and drink would have been good.

June 23, 2018, 1:06 am by

Yeah, I'm sure any similarities between actual German culture and Gunter, Alegarten Neugarten, Veta, and any of numerous other apparent references onsite are purely coincidental. :P

June 23, 2018, 12:52 am by

Quote

Why Go Vegan has been read to Jolette!
Jolette says, "Maybe that would have tasted better than it read..."

I nearly snerked coffee up my nose! I know what the pets say is random but.... :D

June 23, 2018, 12:50 am by

Yikes the comments on this news post are a shitshow lmao

I mean, technically Gunter isn't German since Germany isn't a thing in the world of Subeta

June 23, 2018, 12:44 am by

I just hope there will be more items released before the event ends since I honestly don't see anything in the shops I want to buy. Some more nice clothes would be good.

June 23, 2018, 12:31 am by

So, a few thoughts.

I was always a big fan of Alegarten because I'm into German stuff and I like beer. But I'm also vegan and I really appreciate these items getting onto the site, so it's hard for me to be upset about the holiday taking this new direction. I was disappointed when it was announced our "Oktoberfest" was moving to the summer and changing but seeing how relatively unpopular this event was in the past, I guess I'm just glad it's still around in some incarnation.

Gunter is one of my favorite NPCs and I really wish you guys hadn't introduced that story about him killing his brother; it was super unnecessary and just taints this whole event (everything it was and whatever it will become). So now we have people trying to contrive some argument that implies veganism is hypocritical because Gunter is a murderer. Oooo...k. These are fictional characters; nobody actually got murdered here, calm down. (And really, why'd it have to be the German character who turned out to be evil?)

Finally, I just want to mention there are some biased and disingenuous claims getting thrown around about veganism in these comments. I urge anyone considering this topic to go look up the information on your own, from as many sources as possible, think about it for yourself and come to whatever conclusion you will...just please make it a well-informed one. Some of the statements I've seen made here should not be taken at face value. Also, please remember there are many ways to be vegan; it doesn't imply anything at all except the avoidance of animal products. It doesn't necessitate the purchase of exotic grains or luxury foods that exploit laborers (at least not any more so than an animal product might). You can eat vegan and local. You can be vegan and sustainable. You can be vegan and do keto. You can be vegan and underweight or overweight or neither.

I'm a pretty easy-going vegan and I'm not looking to engage in any pointless internet debates. But I felt these things needed to be said.

June 23, 2018, 12:27 am by

As the saying goes, "out with the ale, in with the neu." :P

June 23, 2018, 12:16 am by

also loving all the fat-/body-shaming stuff that occasionally peeks through on here, a+ for "celebrating diversity" guys. ... really, it's not cool, don't do that

June 23, 2018, 12:14 am by

I always love how things on here get blown out of proportion. What a way to start the festival!

Can I have a fat/overweight HA since boy and girls can wear all the clothes so they can be non-gender? O:)

June 23, 2018, 12:13 am by

No, it's about reducing animal use as much as possible, so therefore the "friends not food" statement is perfectly fitting, so I don't see how it's offensive. I agree the "cruelty free" thing isn't accurate, because there's absolutely no way for anyone to exist without causing harm in some way, no matter what their lifestyle is. I also agree there's other ways to show compassion towards animals besides not eating them. However, I just think it's a little silly that people are getting so angry about this when they're literally just pixel items. I'm sure the subeta staff didn't mean to offend anyone

June 23, 2018, 12:12 am by

Two things I would like to point out...

I am almost always thought of as "pushy" the second I tell anyone that I don't eat meat. I could care less if others eat meat around me, but I hear more harassing from people 'who DO eat meat' toward people 'who don't' than the opposite. The other being that just because I don't eat meat, people think I make my dog eat that way. No. He is a dog... I am a human. Humans can survive without meat, dogs cant.

Please don't think of a whole bunch of different people as one weird forceful idea. It's like thinking all people that practice a religion are extremists.

That being said, I do like that MORE meat free items are being added to the site :) It makes me happy, like it does when I see these items in grocery stores. However, some of the more folksy themed clothing items would still be appropriate, and I can understand why those are missed. I like folksy things too :P The new stuff is cool! It feels a little too modern for the festival though, a bit starbucks-ish.

Either way, thank you for this! I am happy :)

June 23, 2018, 12:08 am by

I'm with on this one. I don't mind the idea of a vegan holiday (although this seems more fitting for a permanent shop than a seasonal event to me), but repurposing Alegarten of all possible events into this strikes me as an odd choice. Why not make this theme a part of Vesnali, or a new version of Peka-Boo? The former's already nature-themed and the latter took place in a not-often-used natural area and already used the multiple shops concept; I think both would've felt more fitting than reworking an event based on a real-life cultural festival that's practically as unrelated to veganism as it gets. I wasn't that fond of Alegarten in its original form, but it brought with it a set of items and wearables that otherwise didn't really get much on this site. The wearables especially were nice, in my opinion, since as said, a lot of them had an almost fantasy-like, medieval feel to them. Meanwhile, the bulk of the new items - and especially the t-shirts, the only wearables right now - feel... hardly any different from the more normal, non-event items and clothes, at least to me. The art for them is still lovely, but I don't see anything here that screams "yep, that's part of a seasonal event" to me like most event items except for the Oatmeal ones - they feel like regular stuff that could've been added to their corresponding shops instead.

If the reason for repurposing Alegarten into Neugarten was that the artists were struggling to come up with items for a holiday revolving around sausages and beer, then why not expand the scope of the event? Real-life Oktoberfest has a heavy focus on those two, yes, but that's not all there is to it. You could draw from some of the festival attractions for memorabilia, like the ferris wheel, the Hexenschaukel madhouse ride, or the motorcyclists doing performances at the Pitts Todeswand. You could draw from the Schichtl magic performances and the costumes used in those, or from the attire of those participating in the Trachten- und Schützenzug marches, from some of the participating groups (marksmen clubs, musicians, fishers, etc), to some of the still less represented foods and drinks (coffee, certain sweets like Schokoküsse, chicken- and duck meat dishes, etc), or types of festive clothing and hair styles that weren't added in previous Alegarten runs. If that's not enough, expanding it to drawing from German culture as a whole instead of just Oktoberfest should also provide more things to work with, and wouldn't be too far removed from the original theme of the event.

I realize it's too late to tweak the current incarnation of the event much, but I hope this can be taken into consideration for the future - it'd be a shame to lose the original event theme altogether, in my opinon.

June 23, 2018, 12:02 am by

Aw, I like the old name better. Not surprised it started already, I was expecting it to start in July however. Oh well, time to throw away all my sP again.

June 23, 2018, 12:02 am by

YAY! THANK YOU!

June 22, 2018, 11:54 pm by

If the philosophy is passive-aggressive by nature and has to go around shaming the people who don't/can't/don't want to ascribe to it, then it's kind of a shit philosophy.

I think we've all got reasons to express our annoyances-- whether it's the passive-aggressive nature of some of the items, or the sudden complete change in festival, or the fact that it's pride month and it could've been a way more suitable holiday that involved celebration of lifestyles and cultures and stuff. (Would've loved that, being a lesbian and all.)

It is your decision to do as you wish, and I respect that, but that doesn't mean I can't vent my grievances about other things. Don't rag on my decisions and I won't rag on yours.

June 22, 2018, 11:52 pm by

hey anyone here like to eat leafs

June 22, 2018, 11:45 pm by

No one here seems to understand that ethical veganism is about animal rights and not welfare, so the treatment of the animal is irrelevant. Everyone says how vegans are "my way or the highway", well I'm seeing an awful lot of that here from meat eaters basically saying how stupid and useless veganism is and we should all just eat humane animal products. Sorry but I don't feel comfortable eating or wearing animals no matter how they're treated, and that should be my decision. Yes maybe the items are a bit passive aggressive, but it just reflects the vegan philosophy. If you don't like them, just don't buy them, and if you don't like veganism, don't be vegan. You don't need to write long rants about all your personal annoyances related to veganism. Subeta isn't made just for you, so there's bound to be things on here you don't like, deal with it.

June 22, 2018, 11:42 pm by

I think everyone should have a couple of days a week with no meat! Like have a P and J sandwich or a bean burrito for lunch and a salad for dinner!

June 22, 2018, 11:30 pm by

I didn't remember that but I went back and checked and you're right, Gunter does mention vegan hot dogs. I guess that does make it a lot less sudden. Thanks for the info! (Here's the news post in question for anyone that wanted to see.)

June 22, 2018, 11:12 pm by

addition:

oh there's even "honey alternatives" in the manwar shop, even though, you know... honeybees actually completely and utterly benefit from us taking and using their honey because they make way too much for their hives to comfortably store. there is absolutely no reason to use honey alternatives when buying honey and supporting small beekeeping businesses is a hugely important thing to do with honeybees being threatened by pesticides and whatnot. conservation and all that. people using "honey alternatives" will never cease to annoy the hell out of me because of this.

yeah, I just... I dunno about this one. the "cruelty free" thing, "friends not food" shirt + the seeming "show compassion for animals by not eating them" and all that passive-aggressive judgment... I really, really don't like those at all, especially since my girlfriend in particular recently started a very meat-heavy diet for her health and she's incredibly caring and passionate towards animals. :| I eat a fair amount of meat, I can't imagine letting go of that-- hell, I even want to get into hunting to help the environment around here, because the deer are seriously overpopulated and need management. Animal and environmental welfare are both seriously important subjects for me, but I'm gonna eat meat anyways because it's tasty and because it's possible to get meat from happy animals. "Friends not food" sentiments can get the hell outta here.

June 22, 2018, 11:12 pm by

I see a lot of people in the comments who are like “oh gosh, here comes the drama…” but I’m actually really enjoying the back and forth below. Even if some people are angry, they’re prioritizing making their points over insulting others, and as someone who is considering making changes in their diet, I’m grateful to see the ecological and moral pitfalls of all classes of products. I may have never known about many of these things without discussions like this. So thank you to everyone!

I do get what people are saying about the revamped holiday feeling like a completely different beast, even if I don't drink and found the sausage repetitive. I hope the staff will brainstorm some good ways to bring back in the vibes of the old Alegarten while still bringing their new content to the table. (I second Sleeb's feels about the wearables.)

June 22, 2018, 11:07 pm by

, I get this thing of the event being for everyone, but uhm, wouldn't it be better if they made /a part/ of the items vegan? I waited so much for this event so we could get some new traditional outfits. Not these shirts ;;

June 22, 2018, 11:02 pm by

Yeah, I rather liked it the way it was, and the unique style of clothing that could easily translated to D&D style characters, no other holiday was like that. Now we get really cheesy, cheap looking graphic tees talking about veganism? No thank you???

I would like the fantasy/Olden Style clothing back.

June 22, 2018, 11:00 pm by

Oh. Huh. Well, that's cool. I guess.

Some of the items/themes here do definitely feel passive-aggressive, though, I'm feeling that. Even just the "cruelty free" thing has always bugged me as a concept; like... okay, so all of the other folks do accept cruelty into their lives and diets? Even though the best meat comes from happy animals and it's pretty obvious? (I'm very interested in animal psychology and behavior, so this is kind of a huge part of that.) Besides, veganism isn't "cruelty free" when you think about all the human laborers, their treatment, and just the unnecessary/excess resources put into growing this stuff.

I liked the old holiday better, just because I've never been comfortable with aggressive/passive-aggressive veganism for a lot of reasons, and there didn't need to be a dramatic change like this. And in agreement with others-- if you wanted Vegan stuff, you could've lumped it with Vesnali or whatever, but.. I'd have really preferred a June-July holiday be a pride thing. If anything, this could've just been a celebration of alternate diets/lifestyles/culture rather than.. this. (++ yeah it does feel really sudden)

June 22, 2018, 10:43 pm by

, same. There are a thousand other vegan-fitting holidays and the choose exactly Alegarten, lol. Why not a vegan-themed year at vesnali?

June 22, 2018, 10:43 pm by

I'll give you the German language point but most alt-right /are/ neo-Nazis. Thanks.

June 22, 2018, 10:36 pm by

I'm just disappointed in general at the change of the holiday.

June 22, 2018, 10:35 pm by

Alt means old in German, and not all alt-right are neonazis. Thanks.

June 22, 2018, 10:32 pm by

I’ve already seen some fatphobia in the comments. Lort. This is why I was uncomfortable with the idea of a vegan festival.

I’m adding my voice to the requests for a queer pride event, because I would love to have Pride related gear to wear as a queer user. Especially since it’s June, y’know?

June 22, 2018, 10:31 pm by

I...don't like any of the wearables at al now. There used to be almost a fantasy feel to it, now it's all t-shirts.

June 22, 2018, 10:23 pm by

Awesome, I just wish the food trucks came back!

June 22, 2018, 10:15 pm by

I love that we can still get the old items and enjoy a new twist on the festival :)

June 22, 2018, 10:04 pm by

Also I love, love LOVE the idea of Altgarden, even just keeping the Neugarten name but expanding it to include other alternative diets. I would hoard every Gluten-Free and Kosher item I could get my hands on. (In America, "alt" has some unfortunate connotations with the "alt-right", aka neo-Nazis)

June 22, 2018, 9:58 pm by

I’ll look into it after I finish cooking dinner! :) Gunter converting to veganism isn’t sudden, though! He did items last year (you can find them in the brewery) that touched on the vegan theme and even mentioned it in news post during Alegarten.

As far as more non-food related items, that’s what Rumi’s lifestyle and fashion tent/shop/stall is for. Who knows what kind of items she’ll have next year. :) Also there’s nothing to say we won’t have booze items for other holidays (hi the pirates like a good drink or two).

June 22, 2018, 9:57 pm by

Relevant PSA to all (IRL) pet owners: If you are vegan, great. But please for the love of god don't force your dogs or cats to be vegan. They're not like humans, they're obligate carnivores. They will become malnourished and possibly die if you feed them only vegan food. Thank you <3

June 22, 2018, 9:55 pm by

Thank you for all the vegan items! :)

June 22, 2018, 9:50 pm by

Cool new food items for my pet. Also I tried vegan cheese once and couldn't stomach it, so more power to people who can.

June 22, 2018, 9:48 pm by

I counted to about 10 sec wait which isn’t too bad. Thanks for ping. :)7

June 22, 2018, 9:46 pm by

At first I didn't mind the idea of including some new vegan items this year, but thought Gunter converting to veganism seemed really sudden and I thought the "if you're not ready to make the full switch yet" thing sounded super passive aggressive. Now that Gunter's speech has been reworded to be less judgmental and I've seen the artists say in the comments here how hard it is to come up with more sausage and beer items after all these years, I like the idea much better than I did at first and think it makes more sense. If I may make a few suggestions for the future:

I like Metroid's ideas of calling it Altgarten and expanding to include other alternative diet foods in the coming years.
A couple people have mentioned that it used to be a cultural festival. Would it be possible to work in some new non-food items related to German culture to help reference that?
If people still want new sausage and booze items but the artists are out of ideas for those, have you considered running another contest for users to submit their own ideas/designs for new items?

June 22, 2018, 9:46 pm by

yes good it shouldn’t actually be 30 seconds, more like two or three (30 is just the dumb default text).

June 22, 2018, 9:45 pm by

I can't wait to see what will come in the coming years ! I used THIS as a base for my cookies ! I used 1 tablespoon vanilla, mashed banana instead of applesauce, mixed all two cups of chips in instead of their odd process, and I didn't use flaked sea salt on the tops. I also froze the scooped dough before baking it because it's how I do Holiday baking prep.

Whoa, that is a shocker ! It sucks finding out something so good has allergy-inducing ingredients in them. Luckily my allergy isn't too bad.

June 22, 2018, 9:35 pm by