Neugarten, the new Alegarten

June 23, 2018, 3:07 pm by

The pictures are just pixels, but the ideology is not.

June 23, 2018, 2:58 pm by

these comments kill me also killing plants is not murder killing animals is Also Not Murder killing of a human by a human is murder lmao

god guys chill its fictional food, its almost like diversity in people actually exists and the same should be said about characters

June 23, 2018, 2:55 pm by

everyone is being so rude an obnoxious to each while pretending to be nice, reasonable and inclusive of everyone and everything, I love it

June 23, 2018, 2:51 pm by

Friends, they are just pixels. You collect them and feed them to your pet. :-D

June 23, 2018, 2:49 pm by

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm just not thrilled about this site diving even deeper into SJW/politically correct territory. That stuff is very toxic when it gets taken too far, and toxicity very much makes games not fun.

June 23, 2018, 2:41 pm by

Veganism is not healthy, and it trades animal murder for plant murder. Just because most plants can't react to things in a way that we as animals can understand doesn't mean they don't want to live too. Science has actually found that some plants are able to learn or react to threats in a way that we humans can measure, touch-me-nots being one of them. I believe there was a crop that was found to have such a thing as well.

Regardless of whether we're killing something that's familiar to us completely different from us, it's still murder either way. It's an unfortunate fact of life.

June 23, 2018, 2:26 pm by

Ok are you serious right now? God, I don't even know why I still play this game.

All I'm gonna say now is that I agree wholeheartedly with

Please go away, the lot of you, anti-vegans. Everywhere else caters to you.

June 23, 2018, 2:14 pm by

Man, I love revamps and new approaches, but couldn't this be handled better than just catering to one group of people? I'm pretty positive that you guys could've come up with something more fun and creative that piques the interest of ALL users. Why not combine the idea with something else so all of us have something to look forward to? It could've been a simple Health festival for all I know, where we have fitting food, wearables and other stuffs to collect. I mean, you can only do so many Vegan items until you run out of ideas like you did with Alegarten.

June 23, 2018, 1:40 pm by

Wow, some of you need to chill the eff out. I don’t understand how anyone can take personal offense to a Vegan Fest on a pet site. Unreal. If you don’t like it, don’t participate, but don’t try to ruin it for others by acting like there is something wrong with it.

And to artists and staff, thanks for all the new items and hard work, as always!

June 23, 2018, 1:30 pm by

Some vegan alternatives are incredibly taxing on the environment - namely agave nectar.

Cruelty-free shouldn't just apply to animals - it should also embrace our whole planet.

June 23, 2018, 12:42 pm by

No, but when I first went vegan, I unfortunately got sucked in to the whole "meat eaters are evil and every farmer just cares about profit" thing, so I believed everything the other activists said. Now that I don't hang around with them anymore, I'm questioning how much of that is even true.

June 23, 2018, 12:36 pm by

Welp this sure is a long comment section.

I just came to see if anyone was talking about Anne being adorable and taking over some of the duties for Gunter despite.... everythingggggg.

Hope you're having fun at this job Anne!

June 23, 2018, 12:30 pm by

Reminder to self and all vegans - Subeta is still the internet. Vegan-bashing is alive and well on the internet and everyone is a nutrition expert. No matter what you say, if the internet finds out you are vegan, do not expect to be heard and roll the dice to see what the response will be (if you’re vegan, you already know what the standard responses are, because you hear them every day).

June 23, 2018, 12:28 pm by

I'm curious. Did you see video proof of beehives being burnt with bees still in it? Also, I've heard of the PETA. I don't trust them. My mum subscribed to them said that they could direct debit $20, they took $40. When she realized and called them to unsubscribe, she was rudely abused by one their members, called a 'senile old meat eater'. There was even an expose done, which aired on The Feed on SBS, how staff from PETA were harassing and bullying farmers and people who worked at abattoirs. Like, I could never work at one of those places. But for some people, it's how they made ends meet, and how they provided for their family, and to bully someone for trying to put food on the table for their kids....yeah....that organisation is really, really shady.

June 23, 2018, 12:04 pm by

A lot of the vegan aggression seems to be grounded in misinformation about farming...I was always told by vegan activists and such that a lot of beekeepers burn the hives (with the bees in them) when they're done with them, a lot of factory farming practices are still done on small farms, etc. Is all this just propaganda from PETA and I'm the one that's misinformed? My main issue with things other than meat is mistreatment, not the whole "using animals is slavery" mentality (which is ridiculous lol). Well that and dairy hates my digestive system :[

June 23, 2018, 12:04 pm by

This is one of the best posts ever!! If you could live perfectly well without harming another, why wouldn't you? Be kind. Be vegan.

June 23, 2018, 12:00 pm by

ignores all the drama Can we at least get the free beers again, please? :)

June 23, 2018, 11:44 am by

The comments aren't even that bad considering how distasteful some of the items are

June 23, 2018, 10:52 am by

No need for sorry, there was an emoji there because i forget the site turns it into a question mark, subeta making me appear passive aggressive instead of friendly haha

June 23, 2018, 10:42 am by

Sorry

June 23, 2018, 10:30 am by

Yes! I 100% support my local beekeepers, but my comment was already long enough, lol ?

June 23, 2018, 10:25 am by

Also, eating honey isn't bad for bees. I've got to get to work so I can't go into it myself, instead I will quote from some beekeepers -
https://velocicrafter.tumblr.com/post/119405673063/is-using-honey-bad-it-would-be-hard-for-me-to

"As a beekeeper, let me say the following. As a vegan, you depend upon beekeeping. It doesn’t matter if you never use beeswax or eat honey. You still depend on beekeeping. It is absolutely impossible not to. Because here’s the secret; you know all those delicious fruits and vegetables you eat? You wouldn’t have them if it wasn’t for bees, and here’s another secret; those bees were probably either kept by the farmer who grew them for the purpose of pollinating his/her crops, or moved to the farm during pollination season by a beekeeper. If you’ve ever eaten a cherry, almond, blueberry, tomato, melon, squash, raspberry, strawberry…hell, most fruits or veggies…you’ve benefited from beekeeping. There is simply no way to avoid it. If you leave it up to whatever pollinators happen to stop in from the surrounding area, your yields will suffer dramatically, which means less produce and less money for the farmer. Therefore, the easy and universally preferred method is to plop a few hives on the property. The girls will make sure that just about every last almond/cherry/blueberry flower is pollinated (They’re VERY good at what they do) and you can happily harvest a bumper crop. This is a universally used practice among food producers. And do you know the best way to help make sure the bees survive? Keep them. Organically, without using any chemicals. And here’s a secret about beekeeping; you inspect the hives whether or not you take honey, to make sure the bees are healthy and doing well. (There are mites and diseases that can severely harm bees, and even as an organic beekeeper who doesn’t use chemicals on her girls there are methods I use to prevent/treat things like varroa mite infestation that can kill an otherwise healthy hive). And yes, when you open a hive to inspect it, you might crush one or two bees. But tell me, honestly, that you’ve never killed an insect. Bees themselves will kill sick/non productive members of the hive to ensure the health of the hive as a whole; I don’t see how my accidentally squishing one to ensure the health of the other 50,000 is any different. And this is what all beekeepers do. And if you, as before mentioned, ever eat anything that isn’t grain-based, this is what took place to put that food on your plate. I would also like to point out that bees will store as much honey as they possibly can…which usually ends up being waaaaay more than they actually can use. To survive a log Iowa winter, my bees need about 100 lbs of honey per hive. Well, last year one hive had TWICE that. (I took 50 pounds, leaving them MORE than enough to get through the winter. I just checked on them today; they’re alive and healthy). You are NOT hurting them by taking a little honey for yourself, no more than you already are by looking in on them every two or three weeks to make sure they’re healthy. And again, if you ever eat any fruits or veggies, SOMEONE IS ALREADY KEEPING BEES TO POLLINATE THEM AND INSPECTING THEM TO MAKE SURE THEY’RE HAPPY AND HEALTHY. KEEPING BEES IS NOT WHAT IS KILLING BEES IT IS WHAT IS SAVING BEES. WITHOUT BEES YOUR VEGAN DIET IS IMPOSSIBLE. WITHOUT THAT “EVIL” EXPLOITATION OF BEES YOUR VEGAN DIET IS IMPOSSIBLE. AGAIN, BEEKEEPING IS WHAT IS SAVING BEES NOT KILLING THEM. SO IF YOU EAT A LITTLE HONEY IT IS HONESTLY NO WORSE THAN EATING SOME ALMONDS AND FRUIT SALAD. “Drops mic” " "Also, there’s a REASON you take honey from bees, not just because you want to eat it. See, like I said before, bees will store as much honey as they can. It’s instinctive. However, there’s only so much room in a hive to put stuff, and honey isn’t the only thing in a hive. They also need room to raise brood, store pollen, ect. Now, if they run out of room, they’ll start feeling overcrowded, which will trigger swarming activity. You can, of course, add more supers (boxes) to the hive, but there’s a limit on how many workers one queen can produce, and you don’t want more supers than they can police, even if all of them are stuffed full of honey. That way lies pests and raiding. So, what we want to do is make sure that they don’t feel overcrowded, while making sure that they don’t have more room than they can take care of. When bees feel overcrowded, they swarm. When they swarm, they raise a new queen. The old queen and half the bees will then leave to try and find someplace to start a new hive. 90% of swarms die. As a beekeeper, you don’t want this. You can, of course, purposefully let them start raising a new queen and then split a new hive off of the old one if you want to. I’ve done this myself. But this is not always desirable, for many reasons (no more room for more hives, can’t take care of more, don’t have a spare hive body on hand, ect.) There’s also the fact that a recently swarmed hive is susceptible to raiding by wasps/skunks (skunks LOVE to raid hives, the little bastards) or mice, as half the bees that would have defended it before are now gone. You don’t want this either; raiding can kill a hive as quick as disease or pests. (This is why I keep a VERY close eye on any hives that I’ve recently split, and have taken potshots at skunks in the backyard with a slingshot before. Not to kill them, just to scare them off.) If you don’t want them to swarm, the easiest way to keep them from feeling cramped and give them a little new breathing room is to pull a few surplus honey frames they’ve filled up and replace them with empty frames. The girls will then happily go back to work filling the new empty frames with honey or brood or whatever they decide needs to go in all that new space. They don’t feel crowded any longer, the hive doesn’t swarm and stays strong, everyone’s happy. And what, then, am I supposed to do with these three frames of honey I pulled? Throw them away? Hell no. That’s 30-40 pounds of delicious, right there. Humans and bees have what’s called a symbiotic relationship. We both benefit from the arrangement. Don’t diss things if you don’t understand how they work. And, one more time…keeping bees is necessary for your vegan diet to remain viable. A beekeeper is going to inspect all of those hives anyway, which is the most stressful part of beekeeping for the bees. You are, with your eating habits, (and by that I mean ‘really just eating’, because there’s NO diet that doesn’t rely on beekeeping) reliant on this practice. Taking a frame or two of honey is the LEAST stressful part of inspecting a hive for the bees. Source; have kept bees organically for 10 years, help other hobbyists in the area who want to start keeping bees. Garden organically. Generally Actually Know Where My Food Comes From And What It Takes To Get It On My Plate. "

June 23, 2018, 10:24 am by

Waited to cool off before sharing thoughts. A good sleep helped. I think the new items are cool and an area that needed some additions. Yay cashew and almond milk! That aside I was really struck by the way it happened and I don't know that I like it.

Alegarten was beer and sausage and leiderhosen. Now it's vegan fest? It just seems so weird and I don't get it. It feels like it could have been a summer farmer's market kind of event separate from beer-sausage-fest. A separate event to represent that demographic. It just.. feels... weird.

June 23, 2018, 9:59 am by

Third time's the charm, right? Like i get it, most vegans are vegan because they love animals and/or they believe it's the way to save the environment, that's totally understandable. I just disagree fundamentally, and i think these items/the rebranding of alegarten is contributing to downright dangerous pseudo-scientific ideas, and painting veganism as a perfect solution for environmental and animal welfare reasons, when it's really not that simple. Like i don't care if you don't want to eat animals, that's absolutely fine, i too enjoy vegetables, every day. What i'm against is this soap-box of glossing over any negative aspects of veganism and touting "cruelty-free" when none of us can live truly cruelty-free. Just because you don't have animals on your plate, doesn't mean animals didn't die for your food, your clothes, your makeup, your tech, etc.

Like, Manwar's , plant based honey alternative, perfect, no stealing from animals, right? But when you look into it further, the current increase in harvest of agave nectar is removing that source from the highly specialized endangered bat species that eat that nectar. Those bat species are pollinators and actually fill almost the same niche as honeybees, and the decline of them has knock-on effects on every other animal in their eco-system. Agave is (probably) fine when a small minority is eating it, but you can even find it in health stores in my country, across the entire world from where agave grows. Not only are they harvesting way too much agave to sate consumers' needs, they are transporting those goods over massive distances, which is another problem for the environment. And let's not even get into the incredible amount of water needed to produce , when we are facing droughts. is another, the nuts are frequently harvested and shelled by child labourers in unregulated plantations. Cashew nut shells cause contact dermatitis and potentially permanent hand damage, even possible amputations, after prolonged exposure. It's not by any means a "cruelty-free" alternative to dairy, and i don't trust a single cashew nut unless it's traceable every step of the way and proven to not exploit child labourers. And it sucks because i really love cashews.

Which brings me to another point: i live in a country with mostly mountains and poor soil. In most areas here, it's more effective to let sheep and goats graze on the wild grasses and leave their poop to fertilize it, than to bring in artificial fertilizers and monoculture the mountainsides to will kale to grow, thereby increasing runoff of fertilizers and contributing to soil depletion and erosion, and eutrophication of lakes and fjords. It would also require killing mass amount of animals that lived in the area and tried to eat the crops, and even accidental deaths when harvesting. Like most fruits we have to import because it's cold and barren here. Historically, our diet is heavily meat, game, fish, and whale based, because that's what's been sustainable and possible in this area. And it's not like we're an outlier, most of human society has relied on animal sources of food. Just because we now have the science to force plants to grow doesn't make it a sustainable or environmentally friendly method, when there's so much we need to do to make those plants grow. And a sheep or a deer grows itself.

There's also the petroleum issue. Synthetic fibres like acrylic, polyester, fleece, and nylon are mostly made from petroleum, a fossil fuel, and are known to shed non-biodegradable micro-fibres constantly. If you remember the micro-granule stuff in soaps a few years ago, synthetic fibres are currently doing the exact same. This is an area most people, vegans and non-vegans, don't know about, but it's a huge problem; plankton eat the fibres, fish eat the plankton, fish starve to death because they get impacted and feel full from the acrylic fibres. Simplified. Synthetic fibres also do not break down if you stop caring for them, not for potentially centuries, unlike animal hide. The production of these synthetic fibres can also be extremely toxic for the people making them. I don't know enough about plant-based fibres to comment one way or another, but i suspect there are similar concerns with some types of them as with the other points, ie. some of them take an inordinate amount of resources to produce when you could just let a sheep out to graze for itself, and shear it in spring.

I will say that i'm very appreciative there's no quinoa added in this batch nor on the site at all, as that is the poster-child of fad diet ignorance. As an aside, there is so much more to bavarian cuisine than just sausages and beer! You could expand it to all of germany/surrounding countries and have a ton more potential already.

June 23, 2018, 9:44 am by

Why do meat eaters ALWAYS have to be like this whenever veganism is brought up? The amount of times I was told to shut up whenever I complained about the pets on here being eaten, and yet the moment vegetarian and vegan stuff is introduced EVERYONE whines about it and suddenly has no problem with complaining!

NONE of the new items are condescending in ANY WAY! It literally doesn't concern y'all ONE BIT! I promise you, no one cares how you're never ever gonna give up meat!!11 so feel like the items are targeting you. They're general things for vegans to enjoy, not to personally guilt trip you (but if they do make you feel guilty, you ever ask yourself why that is? lmao). You guys always have stuff that caters to you (fuck, almost the whole world caters for non-vegans), why aren't veggies allowed to have their stuff too with you starting arguments about it?

Literally, just stop. Even being 10% vegan helps the planet in some way, so quit with the all or nothing attitudes or your "veganism is cruel too so CHECK MATE!1!1!!" supposed "points".

Also lol @ all the anti-vegan comments having like 30 likes. I see you.

I can't wait to see what hate or personal insults my comment is gonna spawn. I'll be ready waiting with the popcorn. I'm sorry I don't have time to sugarcoat things or be super nice about it. If you were veggie you'd understand our frustration.

June 23, 2018, 9:27 am by

I've met so many vegans who look down on others, think they're better than others because they don't eat meat. But they are like the rest of us. They write on paper, never once thinking of the tree that was cut down to make it. Some wear wooden beaded bracelets, necklaces and their houses are decked out in wooden goods from the tables to the floors. (That hippie hipster life, yo) Thus contributing to the deforestation of land, which forcibly removes animals from their homes and habitats. Pot, say hello to the kettle.

June 23, 2018, 5:49 am by

ah i really like the subeta events: valentine's, christmas, and go vegan

June 23, 2018, 5:26 am by

m e g a o o f

June 23, 2018, 5:07 am by

. . . I'm not uncomfortable with the fact that cruelty happens in the meat industry, or with the "truth" that indeed animals do indeed suffer in factory farms. Those are both things I've fully accepted exist and happen, and that I do what little I can to prevent supporting. I'm uncomfortable with the notion that "if you eat meat then you support animal cruelty/don't support animals/(etc)", because that's an incredibly villainizing sort of statement when the world isn't that simple.

Ugh, it got cut off. Stupid enter key. Well, whatever. I'm kind of done with trying to debate-- my tl;dr is that I don't like those items because it pushes the "meat = animal cruelty" concept, which is incredibly wrong and paints a really gross picture of literally anyone who eats meat. It's not because I'm "uncomfortable with the truth", I'm completely aware of all the really terrible shit that happens in the meat industry.

June 23, 2018, 5:03 am by

I feel you're kind of missing the point. I can get it being a pride/insiders only thing, but it still seems very much like a "if you eat meat you support animal cruelty/you can't support animals if you eat meat" sort of message. And not only is that kind of a rude thing to imply, but it's also not true in the slightest.

I didn't exactly ask for your backstory, so I guess that feels a bit unnecessary to me; I suppose I understand, though. I'm fully aware that factory farms and battery farms exist, but that's not going to stop me from not supporting those and instead supporting small businesses that provide ethically-raised meat.

I'm not uncomfortable with that, or with the "truth" that indeed animals do

June 23, 2018, 4:55 am by

[IMG]https://media0.giphy.com/media/PJs3SZLfMQ0Ks/giphy.gif[/IMG]

June 23, 2018, 4:44 am by

Veganism aside (not gonna touch that), I'm just a bit disappointed to lose the cultural element of the event. I'm going to miss the wears in particular; there's nowhere else putting out the same kind of old traditional/quasi-fantasy wears. I get that there are limitations to the Germanic stuff, but I'd rather have seen the concept expanded rather than completely transformed.

was only half joking, but turning Alegarten into a summer fair would have been lovely. Local produce (homemade sweets, sloe gin, elderflower wine, jams and preserves, extremely alcoholic spirits made with leftover fruit), traditional clothing, music, dancing, handicrafts, wonky vegetable competitions etc. Maybe even expand it out into a Subea-wide cultural/folk festival (maybe with a different group getting precedence each year and rotating through, but the other lands/people still having a noticeable presence to still emphasis the message of unity). It could have been an opportunity for more world-building.

June 23, 2018, 4:15 am by

June 23, 2018, 3:55 am by

- I’m a vegan that also has nut allergies. If you ever are interested in swapping info on nut free companies just give me a poke - I know a bunch of safe ones that make tasty foods (not just vegan ones too - I cook meat for my family everyday - and they all eat nut free to protect me cause my allergies are that bad ) - hugs to you because I know what a sucky situation food allergies are! Heart you!

June 23, 2018, 3:29 am by

The stickers, in particular, are the ones that seem celebratory and specifically for vegans, rather than condescending to non-vegans. So, you wouldn’t be a part of that club or know the secret handshake, but we’re not talking bad about about you, you know? I get that you feel uncomfortable with them, but I feel really uncomfortable with the poop covered foods, like nauseous.

I’d like to share my personal motivation for being vegan with you, in case that helps to make some sense of what some of the items are saying or to understand why some of us get tired of the stuff that’s said about us and try to defend ourselves. I’m not opposed to animals dying. We all die. Death is a part of life and I could argue (at another time) that death is life. What I object to, and choose not to participate in, is cruel treatment of animals during their life, particularly factory farms, which is how the vast majority of meat, dairy and eggs are produced in the world. I live in an amazing community and am fortunate to have many friends who homestead and raise their own animals for consumption, and/or hunt deer. I can honestly say I feel no judgment towards those people, because they value that animal’s life. Factory farms are no joking matter and I have never described to anyone what they’re like, because I think it’s something a person can only find out for themselves. Suffice it to say, that’s where the word “cruel” really came into use regarding animal welfare.

Vegan organizations also often don’t talk about what happens in factory farms because there’s no quicker way to shut another person down. Bit what happens is that the word “cruel” then becomes very abstract and diluted, because no one, except those that have seen it, will have that frame of reference. Then other messages, such as “for the environment” start to get tossed about, to find ways to garner support without making people too uncomfortable. And for some people, they are “vegan for the environment” but the origins of veganism come from factory farming and it is cruel. That can’t be argued (although people try).

I honestly think the items talking about cruelty aren’t intended to shame you. But good messages will often make us uncomfortable. I’m guilty of not discussing my reasons for being vegan with people because I don’t want to make them uncomfortable. But I don’t think it’s doing anyone any good, or giving smart, kind people the benefit of the doubt, when we avoid discomfort instead of confronting the truth head on.

I appreciate you putting yourself out there and responding to me. If you’re ever interested in a non-internet-troll vegan’s perspective on some of the specific things you mentioned later in your comment or for any reason, please feel free to message me.

I’m on board with a pride celebration, too...if Subeta releases a Big Gay Vegan sticker, I’ll be done, because that will be the last item I’ll ever need.

June 23, 2018, 3:19 am by

To sum up: The items are problematic. Thinking the items are problematic is problematic. Veganism is problematic. Thinking veganism is problematic is problematic. Whatever group you fall into is right, every word you said was right. Objective statistical data and scientific consensus doesn't matter. Deafening self-congratulatory back-patting. Us. Them. Ad infinitum. I'm going to go have a hot dog. Not saying whether it's vegetarian or not.

June 23, 2018, 2:53 am by

Needs more Trophies

June 23, 2018, 2:39 am by

Mostly these. They just really push a message of "you gotta be vegan/vegetarian to be kind to animals", or "animal cruelty = eating meat", or whatever. Those kinds of vibes. They're uncomfortable, because it's entirely and completely possible to eat meat and still care about the environment and animals, and I've dealt with my fair share of exposure to the "eating meat = animal cruelty" mindset in my life.

I'm just incredibly tired of all of it. It's not "better for the environment", it's not going to do anything about all the animals that exist that have been bred for this purpose, or whatever. It'd all be better off as stuff that pushes awareness or the positives of vegan/vegetarianism without intentionally being all "this is how to be animal-friendly".

I hope that makes sense? It's a topic I'm pretty passionate about, I do very dearly want to see improvements and revamps in the meat and livestock industries, but I also have no intention on giving up meat.

And I get the whole comfort/safe place thing here. There's a lot of support for LGBT people on here, so I can freely express myself without fear of being judged or treated weirdly or whatever, it's nice. I guess I'm just.. kind of taken aback at how quickly people are to say "but not all vegans" when they're trying not to be that one type of vegan, you know? No need to defend yourself if you're not a part of that group.

June 23, 2018, 2:31 am by

Which items have descriptions that state that a vegan person is better than a non-vegan? I’m trying to figure out which ones are so problematic for so many people, but haven’t found them yet. Some seem celebratory and directed specifically to vegans, so I wonder if people are reading into those? Although, I suspect it’s probably mostly items that have any reference to “cruelty” because I’ve found that to be a super triggering word for people in real-life convos. Do you mind pointing out to us which items specifically are so bothersome?

I get that it’s probably easier for us veggies to see some of the more subtle judgmental stuff being said, simply because we have to live with it on a regular basis, so some may not be as obvious to non-veg folks, but it’s definitely there. And, I speak for myself only, obviously, but I’m super comfortable on Subeta, like a second home, so I don’t mind popping on and defending myself. Whereas, comments elsewhere on the internet I usually just ignore. So, that may be why you see more people here speaking up, if they feel similarly. Since there is some monitoring of what’s posted, the really cruel and derogatory stuff will tend to be absent, so more of us might come out of the woodwork. Not really sure if that’s everyone else’s experience, but I have a feeling it may play a part in why you are seeing more of us posting...just a safer environment, in general. Subeta is pretty great that way. :)

June 23, 2018, 2:28 am by

German and vegan? Subeta you sly dog, you trying to get me back into this game HARD.

June 23, 2018, 2:25 am by

A few thoughts...

I don't like the passive-aggressiveness, at all. Like, good for you, you can eat products that most of the time have almonds in them. Which I'm deathly allergic too. I legit cannot go vegan because so many of the companies insist on putting the wretched little nuts in their products. Furthermore, a lot of the scientific aspects of veganism are rather ill-informed...such as preferring your picked-by-wage-slave-if-not-actual-slave sugar instead of honey, which is part of an industry that benefits bees and doesn't harm them. Not to mention the multiple articles as of late enumerating how plants literally have nervous systems that react to anesthesia...like animals....and communicate with each other...like animals..... Not to mention the insistence of growing crops everywhere despite the fact that cattle-raising works far better for arid environments than growing crops, which is unbelievably water-wasteful in every way...

Vegans really are just the most annoying in terms of the passive-aggressive-despite-ethical-health-and-environmental-concerns stuff. They would rather cover their eyes and close their ears and pretend like children that their way is The Way despite the fact that the world is far more complex than they'd like.

Also it bothers me that the german-themed site holiday, about alcohol and sausage, was just totally thrown out and is now being used as a soapbox, completely against the original culture it was about. Before, to me as someone who comes from a German family, the holiday was cute, but now it feels appropriative in favor of pushing a passive-aggressive vegan message. We now have Oktoberfest...except...fuck you meat-eaters...for a real-life holiday about sausage........okay....

June 23, 2018, 2:21 am by

sad to see one of my favorite holidays (and a holiday for my heritage) go completely vegan. i'd have liked a celebration of food and friends and family in general, not one touting one person's dietary choices over another.

June 23, 2018, 2:09 am by

I support 100000%

June 23, 2018, 2:06 am by

My sister would be all over this if she joined...I would never hear the end of it.

June 23, 2018, 2:00 am by

It is kinda funny that people point out that a lot of the items/onsite stuff/etc have passive-aggressive descriptions/themes/"i'm a better person bc i don't eat animal products" stuff going on, and then a lot of vegans pop up and go "we're not all like that".

Like.. uh, we're not attacking you? We're complaining about the items/onsite stuff/approach to this? I'm sure you guys don't fall into the "obnoxious holier-than-thou" vegans that I've personally put up with, but it's kind of silly for you guys to immediately defend yourselves when it's not /you/ specifically that's being addressed.

Just saying. If you know you're not one of those vegans, why so quick to be defensive?

June 23, 2018, 1:59 am by

I might have missed it - it's certainly not in the Upcoming sidebar, but I'm assuming it's still seasonal and ends when Neugarten ends too.

June 23, 2018, 1:57 am by

Ditto everything said about how vegans get treated. Yes there are some abrasive, obnoxious, militant vegans who not only speak up to inform people but also insult and shame them in the process. However those are in the minority, as compared with the vast numbers of omnivores who take special delight in attacking and mocking vegetarians. As for the food items, non-vegetarians can eat vegan food, while the reverse is not true. So vegan options are appropriate for everyone. I've never brought my walnut meat(less)balls to a party or potluck without having at least two or three people ask me for the recipe. (and then become very confused when they find no meat mentioned) Love these new items, thanks so much for offering them.

June 23, 2018, 1:56 am by

np, glad i could help :3 and i dunno if it was there before, but there is a link to the brewery on the sidebar now, with the bear holding the beer o:

June 23, 2018, 1:51 am by

Ah, thanks! I kinda wish it was added to the side bar but oh well. D:

June 23, 2018, 1:51 am by

So many things to say. First off, thank you for having so many options. Although I eat meat, I try to eat 1-2 vegan meals each day. (Because it's better for my health and man... meat is getting expensive.) That being said, I can't eat soy so it's nice to have so many of the kinds of things I eat on site (as I actually have a pet whose TC I use for things I find delicious). Usually everything vegan is tofu this or tofu that in games like this (and sadly in my local grocery stores) and it gets kind of annoying when you're looking for other choices. I do request a million plant/veggie/vegan/etc. related pun achievements & titles however.

Honestly I was waiting for the holiday to change years ago. First off when we separated from the "real world" sort of feel and let Subeta develop it's own lore/culture. Then again I thought perhaps maybe I was wrong when the Asian culture was brought in quite a lot with the newer area. It's had the feel for the last year or two for me though, that we were sort of running out of item ideas. Just like with the steampunk vibe, the new kind of club/cyber-punk deal was brought in or instead of just the zombie vibe, we brought in the cutesy/romantic parts to pandemic. You can only do the same thing for so long. With that being the case, I don't think it's necessarily bad to leave some of the old behind, to see the site grow and change. Though it definitely seems a bit weird to me to take such a meat-focused holiday and turn it into a vegan holiday... that's the part that really makes me go.... hmmm.

I do agree that the wearables are a bit disheartening. I miss the varied wearables, and slogan t-shirts just don't cut it. It's this thing that makes me wish that this holiday was instead merged with Vesnali to make a plant-themed/nature holiday. Growing flowers, plants, lots of plant based food and just pretty fantasy/fairy types of clothing. Some years it's so far after Easter that it really doesn't need to be stuck to it so much and having similar themes I think those would have worked well together.

Although I don't really think we need to add a pride holiday, I would definitely like to see that sort of idea go more into our survival holiday in the romantic side of things each and every year. It would be nice to have some romantic pride of all types. I always loved it when the single-life love was thrown in. I would have liked to see some sort of idea thread about a new holiday for some better input. Or instead just a roaming holiday with a new focus each year. It was fun with the summer festival popped up and it was something completely unexpected. Almost like the theme months, but with much more content. The random holiday, holiday.

Also, guys, seriously do some research before you start saying comments about weight and vegan diets. So many vegans still struggle with weight issues, and it's not something to make light of. Just a simple search on youtube can net you enough of people's experiences with weight gain on vegan/vegetarian diets. Plus it's just a huge disservice to younger people who aren't educated in what healthy food actually looks like. Just because it doesn't have meat or animal products, doesn't mean it's healthy. Just as just because someone is a vegan doesn't mean they're going to be proselytizing about it. What this site needs is a chill out and love each other no matter what holiday. Should have spent one year doing the switch with an Elsa theme. Let it go, all over the place. :P

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Neugarten, the new Alegarten

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