Q 1: What do you think about a system where the only way that your pets progress is by battling and spending experience. No more needing to train (or auto train) to catch up. This would obviously make the starting points a lot more annoying (and we'd beef up the exp gains from early opponents) but make battling the point of battling, not clicking the train button every time your alert goes off.

A 1: I would sincerely be horrified if the only way I could gain stats/exp would be to GRIND it out...like NO! Please no. I've only got one T12 pet and its taken me YEARS to get there...YEARS. I have other pets in various Tier stages and it takes absolutely forever. I use tomes/amulets and like quite honestly spending 6k+ csc on amulets and that only got me at the time 1/3rd of the way...so for me that means I need to spend another 12k csc just to get to T13 (and I had already used a lot of amulets prior) but this is a me recently trying to climb to T13 thing. (I buy amulets for csc etc) But the grind is sincerely awful.

Q 2: Generally how do you feel about the way that pets gain stats now?

A 2: It is slow. Like I understand not letting people get to T13 in a day. But having to grind, use stat boosters, job agency/scratchcards whatever and still take YEARS to get to a point that your pet is like super strong is insane! DefJam's comment struck home for me which was other games like World of Warcraft don't make you wait years to get and play at the top. (For example in a few weeks time if you are spending the time doing quests etc...you can level your level 1 character and max them out to level 60 in well under a month). If you want to do anything I would recommend leaving the training center and maybe capping out the time because once you hit certain levels people don't want to pay like 300k+ for one stat and wait like 24+ hours for that stat...which makes it useless for your higher level pets. Maybe like a 6 hour window or something for max tier would be great because then folks can still take advantage of leveling if they don't have time to grind it out in the battle dome.

Make challengers all across the board give more EXP out and let that EXP continue even after 10 wins? Like if I battle something 500 times the challenger keeps getting harder and harder so I should be rewarded with major EXP gains from that because I kept trying/losing and kept trying till I got it. And I'd love to see challengers with more EXP for ALL tiers...not just your baby pets. I also struggle with training several pets and grinding because I'm always like "have I battled this? Are there XP to be had? I know we can check on each battledome challenger but trying to check 50 challengers to see where each pet is each and every time makes me not do it. I don't know if there's a solution (like hey your XYZ pet can still gain XP from this challenger) or something?

I love stat boosters and would like to keep them. I'd just love a way where in a years time if I've put in the work (training center, stats, grinding out opponents) that I can have ALL my pets at T13 or whatever....I don't want to spend like 5 years just trying to get one pet to that level and then having to start the grind over again.

I'm not sure about everyone else but I have a family, a job, things to do and quite honestly if it was just grinding out for EXP only I'd probably really lose interest in even playing on Subeta. If I'm investing my time I want it to be fun and worthwhile to my pets so that I know if I'm spending 10 hours grinding I'm gaining Tiers or whatever to make it worth it. Because Time is super valuable to a lot of us <3

So my suggestions are:

1. Training Center: Keep but make the max time to level any stat under 6 hours. And I'd really love something where I could pay 25 csc for all my pets and not just one. It doesn't seem like that bad but when you want to train 10 plus pets? That's a money sink.

2. Battle Challengers: Have all battle challengers give significantly more EXP gained (for lower, mid, high tiers) and have the XP gained go UP the more a person grinds it out. 300 XP for win 5 but you know 4,500 EXP for 15 or whatever (you don't have to use those numbers) But let us gain more EXP even after 10. I'd be less unhappy to grind out challengers if the rewards were better for it.

3. Stat Boosters: Keep them and let people use them as they will. Not everyone will have time to grind out challengers daily or whatever so let them still have a chance to have a battle pet. They are spending sP or csc or whatever to get it while the others might be using their "time" to grind it out.

Nvm /5

eh, I'll put some back: T13 is 13,000 stats costing 3750 (strength, defense, speed) and 4500 (health). Say we have a pet that's set up to boost to cap, so its build is set and the player is trying to add 3250 to each stat. 3250 (number of stats) x 3750 (stat cost) = 12,187,500 x 3 (strength, defense speed) = 36,562,500 3250 x 4500 (stats cost for health) = 14,625,000 51,187,500 experience needed to cap.

If you do all 30 battle quests a day you get 26,000 experience. If you can keep this up for a year you get 9,490,000. Soo..... That's like, what? Five years and a few months to get from 22,001 to 35,000?

Maybe I should put it like this: at T12 I can get 100 strength every 5ish days, and 100 health every 6ish days. Once a pet is T13 that becomes 15 and 18 days.

So we have people who think 35,000 should be unreachable or that there should be no cap and pets should gain stats infinitely. People also say that it doesn't matter because 22,001+ is fine for getting 5 wins on almost all challengers. Meanwhile events are set up so that rewards are given out based on top damage done. :/

This is just T13. Maybe it's time to review tier stat requirements, stat costs, per challenger experience payout (some of these are so bad it's not even worth fighting them), and battle quest experience payout. Something you guys need to calculate and ask yourselves as developers is what you think the reasonable time frame for progression is. What is your goal here? Taking away all ways to gain stats other than through experience points is going to screw up battling even if we take intelligence out of the equation.

Q 1: What do you think about a system where the only way that your pets progress is by battling and spending experience. No more needing to train (or auto train) to catch up. This would obviously make the starting points a lot more annoying (and we'd beef up the exp gains from early opponents) but make battling the point of battling, not clicking the train button every time your alert goes off.

I am not opposed to early battling having a better impact for your pets and maybe changing the way exp is gained in regards to battle (even at the upper levels, because those challengers keep getting harder even if the experience stagnates/drops). HOWEVER, I absolutely use the Training Center for upper level pets as well. My main battler is nowhere near capped and yeah, maybe I'm only gaining 1-2 stats per day with him but I also don't have the time/weapons to keep it to only learning to battle. Taking away the training center feels like a really great way to make battling even less accessible than it is now for people who aren't in the top of the ranks already. There's a lot of things that can be changed to affect how we gain experience and interact with battling as a whole, but removing the training center seems very counter-intuitive and more gatekeeping than anything.

Q 2: Generally how do you feel about the way that pets gain stats now? I am fine with it. There's random gains, bonus gains from quests, bonus gains from jobs, bonus gains when the Oracle hits you up, training, battling, and boosters for the uber rich. There's a nice spread and variety and almost all of it still takes time and funds and work.

[edit] Editing to add that I hit post and forgot that I really think we need some alternate method for Intelligence gains. It plays a huge role in battling (and jobs) and right now it's overly complicated to increase the AP gained off of Intel. You have to count points and try to read a book (when you've got a pet with so many already read) at just the right time to get your point before boosters/random events increase again. If you're not keeping track you're not getting all of the AP you should have. That is one stat that really needs an update to how it's recorded. There should be a very simple X intel points = Y AP points and no more guesswork to adding to that stat. My main battle pet has 3086 intel but only gets 192 AP. Like...for real? The amount of money that went into that stat isn't paying out for what I can do with it.

Maybe if it were half the cost to get an AP, like 8 instead of 16, that alone would be an improvement I feel

Q 1: What do you think about a system where the only way that your pets progress is by battling and spending experience. No more needing to train (or auto train) to catch up. A: No please. Though the training center is slow, it provides a cheap way to raise your pet, and it keeps people to be more care about their level so they can train.

Q 2: Generally how do you feel about the way that pets gain stats now? A: It is fine imo, but without new opponents and bqs, so for people with more than one pet and they are not willing to buy boosters for their second pets afterward, the stats gain for them become very slow.

On the other hand, what bother me the most are:

1. the tier system really limit on what you can use. Not only does it annoy you if you have so many battle pets in different tiers but also it limits your strategy use against certain opponents. Pets in lower tiers with more APs are much more stronger, the reason behind this is that lower tier pets only have a handful of weapons choice to use so that you can't deal with many different opponents with the right stats. So I am hoping to cancel the weapon restriction on every weapons, with salable weapons, just counts the total stats of your pet just like in the tier system now. Or at least give some more stronger and alternative weapons for lower tier pets, or even lower the tier requirement for most weapons.

2. Bulk reading to active pet at once, it is all I want

Q1. I would find that even more terribly frustrating than the process we have at this stage. The training center was a great help to both of my main battle pets when they were smaller, and boosting has since brought them up to speed given the limited gains from further training. I would be all for revamping earlier opponents however.

Q2. Pretty much what I said above. Training is great through the mid-point of a battle pet's progress, I'd say until about T9. Experience points could use a little bump across the board? They are notoriously tougher to apply at the late stage and boosters, while expensive, make up for that gap. Oracle Quests are kind of useful.

I'm back because I've seen some things that suggest that you can hit the stat cap within like a year of BQs and that it would be easier/whatever to rapidly gain stats from battling alone and I just want to remind folks that the official battle guide stats section breaks down the minimum stats and maximum stats for each tier.

You couldn't even begin to hit the cap off BQs alone in 1 year. The stats minimum is 22,001 total stat points across Strength, Defense, Health, and Speed. The Cap is 12,999 more points from the second you hit T13.

Right now, at T12, I am getting about 17-19 stat points per day when I do BQs. That means I can earn a total of 6205-6935 stat point gains in one year. When you hit T13, that drops further and I believe the average (from my friend who is t13 and working towards cap) is 10-12 stat points per day for doing all of the BQs daily. So that's 3650-4380 max per year. Which means it's more than 3 years from the start of T13 to a full cap relying on BQs.

I think some folks who capped out didn't count all the plot experience they garnered (especially being in the upper echelons of battlers who have the necessary weapons to max out on event challengers every time etc) as well as the boosters they use and the extra time they may have to put into additional battling until they stop gaining EXP from challengers (does that happen? Idk because the In-Depth on-site guide still is lacking a lot of information that should be easier to find).

Like...going from the start of T13 to Cap in one year is not remotely possible with BQs and/or battling alone. It's not even really possible with just those and training center factored in. You have to spend money (sP, CSC, real cash you turn into CSC) to try to get from t13 to Cap in one year by using boosters too.

I'm currently 5082 more stat points away from T13. I've been T12 for quite a long time. I can finally hit that last tier (but certainly not the cap) this year if I can do my BQs for at least 282 of the remaining 333 days this year. Chances are unlikely because I work and can't prioritize Subeta every single day. The training center helps, I get about 1.5 stat points a day from there for my main battler (depending on how the hours fall and if I can stick him back in for a second round). Even so, I stick him in because that's still an extra 300+ stat points a year I can gain.

For my pets that I train solely for jobs? I don't want to have to try to sort out what they can use as weapons and dig through my armory to waste an entire weapon set up on them (same for scrolls).

I am in favor of the whole thing getting looked at and reassessed to make everything more streamlined and functional, but I would hate to lose the TC because folks think it can't be helpful. My second battler I'm slowly training is t8 and gets 3-4 stat points a day, which amounts to 900+ a year. It's worthwhile.

[edit] Also I like 's suggestion that AP get an adjustment. 8 Intel per AP point would be a lot more reasonable. Especially with limited books (especially in the reasonably affordable range) and those somehow being mandatory to even trigger your AP progress.

My battler has only 580 books left on the entire site that he hasn't read. Some of those are likely completely unobtainable but even so reading them all would only grant another 36 AP points unless used with boosters. I don't have an issue with alternate ways to earn intel and having to get boosters, but it's crazy town that I could read every book on site as the only way I gained intel and only end up with 180 AP for it. It's wildly unbalanced right now.

Q 2: Generally how do you feel about the way that pets gain stats now? I feel like the biggest problem for the casual player growing their pet/s is lack of knowledge of how to grow pets.

Every time there is a battle related news or forum post that explodes into "Why I hate battling!" there are people saying: "Why can we only grow our pets by X!?!?" X can be the training center.
X can be that there are only a handful of Normal challengers you can fight for experience, and it takes forever to get past the first 5 challengers and the experience isn’t enough to grow to Tier 2. X can be Battle Quests. X can be whatever minor thing they tripped over that gives their pet a stat once in a blue moon. X can be auto training/buying a bazillion tomes/buy all the CS challengers. *This one you don’t even have to do at all much less be the only way.

The answer is you don’t only grow your pet by X. You grow them from most of those things plus: 72 Secret challengers that are free or close to it but have to be unlocked, groan and moan random events, free stat from Job Agency, Oracle quest, Shinwa quest boosters, amulets from Quentin quest that have a chance to become tomes when turned into the Mage, scratch cards, experience and booster drops from beating event challengers, amulet and booster drops from beating Normal and Secret challenges past 10 wins, and even more!

I’ve seen people that have been fairly dedicated to growing their pet/s for years suddenly learn in the BC chat that you can BQ every day, or that more than one or two Secret challengers exist, or there are amulet/tome drops after 10 wins or the Mage can turn amulets into tomes. It shouldn't take reading multiple user made guides/spreadsheets, stalking the BC forum and having experienced battlers take your hand and walk you through to learn how to grow a pet. Yet here we are.

Yes, there are additional problems; the too high cost and confusion around obtaining AP and the horrible grind that is Tier 13 are pains for more seasoned battlers. Tweaking things like how much AP costs, the amount of experience earned from challengers or lowering experience cost for Tier 13 are fine ideas. But they won't solve the real heart of the problem because you don’t even get to those barriers if you are taking 5, 10 or more years to get a pet to Tier 8 (which sadly seems to be the norm).

I don’t think you need to slash the ways pets grow down to only experience from battling. I do think there needs to be much better official communication about how you grow a pet. Listing everything above is not needed, though it would be nice if it was spelled out somewhere. The key ways of growing your pet: Battle Quests, Training Center, and battling challengers for experience and boosters needs to be in your face and clearly explained. Not hoping they click one link out of tons in the BC header or stumble into the BC Chat and get adopted by experienced battlers.

If people do those three things, they will see progress every day and stand a chance of actually liking the current system. The problem to solve is how to get interested people that information. Reinventing the wheel won't fix this because you will still end up having to explain how the new wheel works. Instead, teach them how to grow a pet and add in clear official explanations of how mechanics (weapons, spells, modifications, etc.) work. If you can do those two things, you will have yourself a fun little battle system that is much more accessible for all.

I kinda disagree with colddragon. I think to a degree you do need to reinvent the wheel at the lower end of teirs. I think you need to step back and look at it from the eyes of a brand new player and compare the type of progression that you make battling vs any other game.

I think it's difficult to pitch a subeta battling as a game someone should play when their introduction to it is to jump on and train levels for the first 3 hours, and you can crush the first 5 challengers, do 5 levels of BQs and then hit a complete wall that your stuck behind for several weeks unless you start buying CSC to auto train. And even with auto training its still a 24 hour wall.

By having battling be the primary driver of stats, especially early on if someone is having fun battling that first day they can keep pushing I think that would help player retention enormously.

And that could be accomplished relatively easily by slashing the EXP prices even further for low teir pets, and only moderately bumping up the EXP on early challengers.

That's tweaking to making one way of gaining stats more accessible. Taking away all other ways for any pet to gain stats is reinventing the wheel. That said, I like the last paragraph and think it would pair well with an official walkthrough that explains how to grow a pet and basic battle mechanics.

I've only been on Subeta for a year, and I'm definitely a novice battler so my perspective may not be the same as many others.

Q1: I have mixed feelings about getting rid of training. Daily battle quests are awesome and give me enough exp to feel like I'm moving up in tiers at a good pace, but I can really only do them with one pet. So I do use training on my lower tier pets, or else they don't have many stat gains. Additionally, I don't battle with all of my pets but I use training to up their stats for jobs, it would take forever to get any pet in a good job without the training center, unless lower tier battle challengers gave way more exp. On the other hand, training is pretty boring, just clicking whenever I get an alert.

Q2: I feel pretty good about how pets gain stats now, but I'd be open to changes being made!

I’d be sad if we didn’t have the training center anymore. Periodically throughout the day I check in and put my (T7) pet back in training. I’m a half-assed battler. MOST of the reason I’m training my pet is for the achievement of having 1000 of each stat; I also train to get promotions in the job center. Being able to defeat better opponents is just a perk to me!

I would hate to see the training center go.

I think we have plenty of options to train and gain stats, but AP gains need a tweak.

Q 1: What do you think about a system where the only way that your pets progress is by battling and spending experience. No more needing to train (or auto train) to catch up. This would obviously make the starting points a lot more annoying (and we'd beef up the exp gains from early opponents) but make battling the point of battling, not clicking the train button every time your alert goes off.

Would prefer to keep the different ways a pet's stats can be increased as that makes it more interesting and there's more flexibility.

Q 2: Generally how do you feel about the way that pets gain stats now?

It's alright since it is supposed to be a long journey to reach end goal (stat cap). Would be nice if it can take less intelligence/books to get AP. Adding more useful items and stat boosters in the Battle Shop would be cool.

Also mentioned in previous posts: If books/boosters can all be read/used in one click that'd be fantastic and save a lot of time.

Q1

Honestly, pet training is how I spend a good majority of my time on here.. and I enjoy it. If the only way I'd be able to level/progress my pets was strictly battle quests and the experience gained through battling, I don't know that I'd be all that driven any more for training, because I wouldn't be able to focus on ALLLLLL of my pets like I do now. There's not enough time in the world to battle with each and every pet I have... and I like knocking out achievements. Accomplishing personal stat goes. And giving myself something to work at daily on here. Without the training feature... I'd really lose a good part of "who I am" on here. And have very little I could do... Which might sound abrupt but it's sincere =/

Q2

Some of the boosters.. they're a little bit disappointing. You get all psyched to use one... and gain a stat. I think, if I were to offer any form of suggestion about the boosters is keep them in the system, but maybe offer up a tweak to them so there's a chance for more than just one stat here, or two stats there. I mean, I'm fairly new here, so for all I know there could be a booster that's like the Holy Grail of Boosters haha, but all I keep getting have been fairly ineffective and I've been gaining much more stats through just training my pets myself.....

Q 1: What do you think about a system where the only way that your pets progress is by battling and spending experience. No more needing to train (or auto train) to catch up.

Please please don't get rid of the training center. It's where I've gotten most of my stats. Even when my time is tight I hop in here, check the bathhouse and put my pets in a session. It has taken some time but I just hit tier 12 with my Breeze. I did eventually get some stats from experience but I like that there is a variety of options. When I have the time and mindset to spend more time it's battling and battle quests.

Q 2: Generally how do you feel about the way that pets gain stats now? I dig it. Please don't remove options :'(

I'd only agree in getting rid of Jim if some other system was put in place to 1-click gain stats. After all, the job system has just been overhauled, and I'd like to enjoy that by having my pets be strong and smart enough to do it.

Perhaps some kind of stat-boosting books?

i think removing training/boosting entirely would be ignoring the fact that jobs also require your pets to have certain stats. just because i want my pet to have a specific job doesn't mean i want to battle with them, invest in the right weapons, etc.

aside from my one battle pet, my other pets get trained exclusively to achieve the stats they need for their jobs. to conflate "raising stats" with "battling" assumes that anyone who wants to do the former is automatically interested in the latter.

I skimmed the thread and didn't see this mentioned yet, but I want to urge site staff not to get rid of the training center for purposes of accessibility as well. If I had to physically sit here and grind click-click-click battles all day every day to get anywhere - with even my one battle pet, let alone the others I want to do jobs with - I would basically just be locked out of the whole system and all events tied to it.

It's slow (I made Khalid in 2015 and he's T10 now), but I consider that a fair trade. I can rarely do a battle binge with my battle pet, feed him some items, etc. and put him and my others in the training center to putter along even when I can't do that other stuff.

Q1 answer - I would not want it to be the only way of progressing my pet. Of course, it might be wonderful, as I have no clue how you would achieve it. Would need more explanation.

Q2 answer - I am newish to battling, and I must say that I never battled because it just seemed boring. It was sooooo slow and boring getting my pet through the lower tiers, and wish there was another, more fun way, to get there. Now I have a T10 pet of my own, and an adopted T11 pet, and the training is super expensive, and painfully slow. Spending billions to purchase amulets, that offer very few tomes, is deflating. Could there be a way to use those amulets for training, in addition to the tomes? I don't even pretend to know what the hell I am talking about, so take it with a grain of salt. Just as a newer battler, it is very long and mostly boring until you get to the higher tiers, and then training just gets to be more expensive, and even more lengthy of a process. So if you think this newer way would be better, I am all for trying it.