The karen calling others karen 😂
Mistakes aren't the same as a blatant lack of basic knowledge of checking backups for a site that is "only worth selling for the user data" that has been accumulated over the years. This is not just a mistake. This is a result of s/one that has pretty much checked out of this as a business w/ paid employees and only uses it as a hobby. That's not fair to those on the payroll, as well as the users that have contributed thousands of dollars to make their experience better, as well as to support the site.

While I'm over the rage I felt in the initial thread, seeing people dismiss others validated feelings is annoying AF. I KNOW they're working to make it better and try to compensate us, which is why I haven't felt the need to keep bashing on the subject/problem at hand. I've only been checking here to see if people have had their items restored or have continued to see missing items.

And yes, IS the best thing that's happened to this site in years.

For you to take out your frustrations on others, something must be going on in your life that's pretty upsetting other than here. I'll say a prayer for you and hope that things get better.

In these times, love and kindness needs to shine a beckon rather than raging in darkness.

RIP to any items I've lost. I have over 15,000 items in my wardrobe I believe so there's absolutely no way of me identifying what I'm missing, if anything. 1k CSC is nice but if I'm missing more than one CW, that's not even gonna touch what I've spent on those items. Ohh well. I guess I'll figure that out when I get there.

PROTIP: The PAYING SITE USERS are COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED IN THEIR DISPLEASURE AND ANGER, HOPE THAT HELPS. When you're a grown-up adult and you pay your hard-earned money towards a product, YOU EXPECT THAT PRODUCT TO BE DELIVERED TO YOU AS ADVERTISED.

Those of you pulling this UwU smol bean BS, or having the sheer audacity of calling people who are out of pocket by literal thousands of dollars "Karens" need to excuse themselves. Nobody is here for your white-knighting of non-Bug administrative staff. I am one of the biggest Keith white-knights on this site and it literally took me five seconds of thinking to go "Wow, not only is this effed up, Keith is being shady as hell!!" He's not gonna give you CSC cards for backing him up in this serious f-up that has cost some users actual thousands of dollars in their home currency.

CWs aren't cheap. Loyalty card rewards aren't cheap. There are people here who spend nearly a thousand dollars a month on this site, and the response is for Keith to hide and force poor Bug to field literally ALL OF THIS, when that is NOT Bug's job AT ALL AND NEVER FKN HAS BEEN, and then toss us all 10 bucks of shop credit while Keith scuffs his feet and goes "I'm sowwy UwU". Your crappy little responses to people who are literally out thousands of dollars of actual legal tender can be tossed in the dumpster along with that lack of empathy towards users who watched their cash poof away because Keith CBA to fkn check on the logistics guys for his game.

No matter how you people calling others "Karens" try to skew it, this is a serious fck up. A serious one. This is a business, and y'all need to get with that fact.

I don't think the staff don't care; I imagine it's very frustrating to rollout what should be server upgrades, fixes, new content, and it breaks. Causes another issue. And Subeta seems cursed with that happening.

And users have a right to be frustrated that lag, issues, etc plague the site, and shouldn't be expected to just accept it. It's definitely stopped being a cute "feature," though again I'm sure staff are just as frustrated.

And users absolutely have the right to be furious about this. This was preventable with a working backup. It never should have gone unnoticed for this long, much less until so many items were deleted.

CWs are a huge part of the site--clothing in general is--and if people can't be confident their purchases will be safe that is not good for the site overall. I don't blame anyone whose decided this was the final straw and left, though I hope this is able to be resolved quickly and with everything restored.

Please explain how screaming the same things dozens of other people have already screamed is going to help?

I lost stuff too. I'm angry too. This should not have happened. But now that it has, they're working on fixing it as fast as they can, and capslock ranting and swearing and threatening to quit and whatever else has been thrown around about this is achieving absolutely nothing.

(Psst, merely being angry doesn't earn you the Karen label. Don't act like a Karen if you don't want to be called that. Things won't get magically un-broken if you stomp your feet enough.)

It's true, we're all screaming at the brick wall that represents the staff.

We care about Subeta. If we didn't care we wouldn't be angry. We put a lot of our time and money into this, and it's because it's all important to us. It seems like we're all yelling at each other, which is awful because we're not the problem.

i don't think anyone is saying people shouldn't be frustrated or concerned. what happened is a mistake that shouldn't have happened. it could and should have been avoided. we know that, they know that, everyone knows it. many of us, myself included, have spent a lot of money on here, and now some of the items we have spent that money on have disappeared. that's scary. that's real life money we could've spent on other things.

however - the goal is to restore our items. staff are actively working on this in the middle of a global crisis. until we are told that these items are gone for good, which i highly doubt will happen, no one is out of money. our items are temporarily gone. yeah, that sucks. i'm missing items that have sentimental value. staff will return them. the 1K CSC was never meant to replace your items, it's an apology.

maybe you have an enormous wardrobe with items that you have started collecting a decade ago and don't have the time to check what's missing. you are not expected to. the only reason staff asked to check, is because it would make this process faster for them and for us. they said that if you don't want / can't check, you don't have to. they're doing the work regardless.

after countless messages of users being sarcastic, rude and acting like staff doesn't care, could we maybe.. stop that? we don't need to be hyperfixating on which admin is doing what. they've owned up to it. please read their posts. please show some understanding. being angry and accusatory won't fix things. your concerns - the ones that keep being repeated - have already been addressed, and will continue to be addressed until this is resolved. we've all made mistakes, big or small, and what's important now is that these mistakes are being fixed.

link to staff posts if you don't want to wade through this entire thread

i think most of us agree that those of us who were affected are absolutely valid in feeling upset. we're all allowed to be angry and disappointed and confused as to how and why this could have happened. i'm not disputing that. i don't see the majority of other users disputing that either.

what i don't understand is this lie that seems to be perpetuated throughout the thread that we're all out of hundreds or thousands of dollars. we're not. staff has told us repeatedly that these items will be replaced. they are doing everything they can to replace these items as swiftly and painlessly as possible. is there a chance that some items cannot be replaced? yes. but we don't and won't know if this is the case until staff begin restoring the items that were lost. getting indignant and stamping our feet about what might happen is a waste of time and energy. it's like getting road rage because you think someone is about to cut you off. they probably won't, and then all that anger was for nothing and you're just in a shitty mood for the rest of the day over something that never happened.

look, this situation sucks. it sucks for everyone involved. it sucks for us as users, because we're inconvenienced and nervous that some of our items might not be able to be replaced. it sucks for staff, because they have to find a way to remedy this and have red faces because it happened in the first place. it just sort of super sucks in general because all of this is happening in the middle of a global pandemic. adding insult to injury when we really don't know how the situation is going to end up isn't going to do anyone any good. it certainly isn't going to get your items back any faster.

also, the staff didn't give us 1000 CSC to make up for the loss. they gave it to us as an apology with the intention of getting us all our items back. if everything turns out how they intend it to, we'll have all our items back and a bonus $10 to spend however we please. please stop treating it like it's recompense. it's not, and it was never intended to be.

they're also not asking you to trawl through your 15000 wardrobe items to figure out what or if anything is missing. there's an faq in the first post about this. it will help streamline the process, but it's absolutely not necessary.

this is getting really long, so i'm going to finish by saying this: it's okay to be angry. please, be angry. but also try a little patience and try not to make assumptions. sigh and boo and hiss about how much this sucks as a shitty situation, but don't start stamping on the people who are doing everything in their power to rectify this situation. read posts, stay informed, and be kind to one another. we all need a little kindness right now.

I think for a lot of people the issue is about way more than just this specific incident. I’ve only been back a month (7 year hiatus, lol) and in that time I’ve seen a lot of frustration from the userbase about lack of communication and care from staff. Frustration and.. I think disillusionment is the right word. I don’t know enough about the state of the site to comment personally on that, other than to say I’ve noticed that does a lotttt and I hope they’re getting paid well to deal with so much.

Now this I have to reiterate because it’s very important: ’s original thread post CAUSED the panic. No one in that thread knew that the issue was reversible. For an entire day everyone thought that they had lost their items permanently. Especially CWs, which we’ve repeatedly heard they can’t just make extra copies of. (Now we know it’s reversible and I wish more people were reading these threads and not contributing to even more panic by posting inaccurate speculation despite the info being out there now.) But back to the issue—people panicked for nearly 24 hours due to lack of communication and basically what felt like a shrug from the site owner, saying the reason the glitch happened wasn’t “interesting” enough to post. Instead of waiting to have more information he made a vague thread and didn’t reply to it once, not even to calm people down. A lot of people’s livelihoods are made on this site. I totally get why having that security, and knowing that all your hard work isn’t gonna get ripped away from you, is important. And as people who quite literally pay to keep this site running, those who are angry/were angry are pretty justified. That original forumpost was a badddd move on Keith’s part.

I think it’s important to remember that this website is more than just pixels to a lot of users. I don’t agree with all this “screw staff, they’re stealing from us” nonsense but I also don’t agree that people should just shut up and let all these problems happen over and over (and over and over) again. This one incident isn’t the only problem people have with how important issues are handled.

The $10 credit isn't here to replace the items. They're replacing items and gave $10 for the inconvenience. There's no deadline to report a missing item either. It seems fair to me. More than fair since, with four months of missing backups, people could easily take advantage. If staff didn't care at all then they wouldn't be doing it this way.

We're all annoyed with this and it's probably made worse by the scary things we're all seeing and dealing with irl, but it's always worth reevaluating before lashing out. You can't take back something you've said when you're angry.

If staff cares so little about the site that they didn't notice no backups were being made for four months, why should we even care anymore? How do we know this won't just happen again?

Subeta has dropped the ball over and over and over and over and over. I've been on Subeta for almost 11 years and I genuinely cannot remember a time when the userbase wasn't disappointed in the staff about something. Things weren't always this bad, but things have gone so far downhill over the years. What's the point in giving this site, in giving Keith, our money when staff consistently let the users down? I don't even remember the last time a promise from staff was kept and followed through on in a timely manner. The userbase has been saying the exact same thing for literally years: communicate with us openly & honestly, stop making promises you don't know with 100% certainty you can keep, stop overhyping features that don't even exist yet, stop half building things just to ignore them or delete them later, stop wasting our time and money and excitement, focus on things one at a time.

This is not some brand new site. Subeta is old enough and established enough that incredibly basic things like backups shouldn't be missing for four months without anyone on staff bothering to notice. We'll get our items back, sure, of course. But when? "Eventually", like everything else on this site? One day, maybe, perhaps, like every other promised feature or fix or upgrade that never happened?

I want to be stunned and angry and upset that this happened but you know what? I'm not even surprised. This kind of negligence and incompetence is what I've come to expect from Subeta because it has been happening over and over for years. Keith checked out years ago. The staff doesn't seem to care as a whole. The only one who really seems to care and try is Bug, but they can't keep the site running alone. It's ridiculous that things always fall on Bug's shoulders. Where is Keith when things go wrong? Where is Keith when staff break promise after promise after promise and can't deliver basic features they chose to get the userbase excited for? Why is Bug always the one picking up the pieces and telling us bad news?

For many users, this is the straw that broke the camel's back and I'm worried it will be the straw that breaks Subeta. But you know what? I can't even find it in me to care anymore. I'm glad I never caved and about CSC these past few months when I considered it. I'm not going to blindly support a site that clearly does not care at all to support its users, to keep the simplest of promises, to deliver on anything ever, to perform the most basic tasks of website ownership.

I'll never forget that comment from Keith.

What I want to know is why nobody in the staff noticed that no backup has been made in 4 months.

Clicky here - https://subeta.net/forums.php/read/906360

Keith starts at comment 13. On a reread his comment wasn't that bad, but in the light of this fiasco I'm not hopeful.

That comment doesn't sound bad in context but amidst all the flexing in that post lmao... Yikes.

Having been on Subeta for like half my life (lol), I totally understand having moved on and pursuing other interests.

It doesn't really excuse the fact that no back up had been done in 4 months, especially since you were planning a big switchover, but I get that life changes and priorities change.

We all wish Subeta could be bigger, and better, but that ship has sailed. I really appreciate what staff have been doing for years, and continue to do. TBH I think all the staff I've interacted with care about the site. Subeta is a passion project. It was founded by a teenager. Maybe if we could find more of those passionate talented teens we could keep this this growing, but these days it's the older people (lol 20+ people) that stick around on the site.

The wardrobe is changed again and again items are missing. This isn't the first time this has happend. I am saddened that Subeta hadn't learned from the previous times. My wardrobe is huge. For me it's so much work to check if everything is still there. I simply don't have the time for it.

I've been with Subeta for 14 years so I have seen my share of glitches and errors. And I know the staff does their best to repair it and compensate us.

Just keep a good eye on those back ups from now on. Not paying attention to it is now costing valueble time (and money)

Why are people still ragging on Keith for saying that a big company buyer would only care about harvesting user data? It's true. He's saying he's not selling it to protect it from people who care even less than some think he does. He also pays something like hundreds to thousands a month out of his own pocket to keep subeta's servers online? Being realistic, I'd find it hard to believe that any company is interested in buying, recoding to modern standards, and maintaining long term a petsite living past the heydays of petsites, which can't even scrape up the funds to pay for itself. People who are mad that they lost items and are calling for him to sell the site, I think we'd lose more than just a few items if that happened. I've had my annoyances with Keith specifically over the years, but I also can't justify saying that he doesn't care at all.

Don't get me wrong, I'm also mad that they didn't check the backups for 4 months and think it was extremely negligent of them. Something so much worse could have happened than this. It's unbelievable, and we're right to be mad about it. But in this case what's done is done now and all I can do is wait for them to do more work than they would have had to if they had recent backups and hope that it's a lesson learned moving forward.

I'm more interested in knowing why the reports that people's items were disappearing from the wardrobe were dismissed at first (first reports are from the 19th), and what changed behind the scenes between then and the announcement that this happened. Yes, the 19th - which is why I'm skeptical that this only started on the 23rd.

Despite what he thinks, it's what I want to know the most... Even if it's not "very interesting". Even if it goes over my head, I do appreciate when the programmers try to describe what happened when something goes wrong - because to me, it shows that they understand what happened and understand how they can fix/prevent it and helps me trust their abilities more.

Honestly my biggest concern over this is, if it can happen to the wardrobe (or more importantly CWs but regardless) which is the breadwinning aspect of the site and the only thing majorly supported... what else could this potentially happen to.

Will the new, presumably monitored, backups include everything on the site or just the wardrobe? Will it actually be noticed moving forward? If it's everything, is it actually everything?

Like, OC & ID person here, I keep a spreadsheet with all my pet IDs/current name/birthday/stats (nts, add intel and number of TC slots) but what if something like this happened and every species or color just randomly eas deleted because someone abandoned one? Yeah I key a spreadsheet but there's no way I could remember what items were deleted too. Biggest concern is pets are the lowest priority on the site so if this happened, well. I'd expect nothing; at least I know that though |D

The fact that this happening doesn't surprise me, the fact backups were forgotten about doesn't surprise me, and honestly the fact that I'm now concerned about every other aspect of the site doesn't... really surprise me either. I actually took a tour of CWs in my vault just in case stuff I knew I had magically wasn't there anymore either.