I don't think this is the way to go... it would upset users more than it would fix problems because (as demonstrated over and over) users generally respond very negatively when something becomes more luck-based. Examples include: any chance machine ever, old donation presents, etc.

Increasing the cost of tokens-per-vend would achieve the same goal, but users would still be guaranteed an item for every vend. I'm pretty sure vending used to cost 4 tokens per vend (many years ago), so it's not as if it's never been done. Vending would be slightly less profitable, so in theory fewer users would be using it and fewer items would be introduced. And if fewer items are floating around, the prices on those items will go up which will encourage users to buy from the main shops and more sP will be sunk out of the system.

Well, they'd also respond very negatively if vending were totally removed, and they did respond very negatively when the price went up to 4, and plenty of people love vending despite it being detrimental to Subeta's economy so no matter what change people will react negatively.

But then, it doesn't seem like staff wants to change vending very much anyway, so probably we won't have to worry about it.

Most users understand that vending is not an entirely positive force when it comes to the economy on this site and I think generally people are mature enough to handle changes as long as the reasoning behind it is explained.

I'm not saying that users wouldn't respond negatively to upping the cost of tokens-per-vend: I know that people would complain, but ultimately accept the change because the "gameplay" of vending wouldn't be altered. Charging 4 tokens or dropping the probability of a successful vend down to 50% would theoretically have the same effect (double the cost per item in the long run), but I don't think users would react the same way to both changes. Increasing the price of something and radically changing how it works are two different things, and one of them is easier to adapt to than the other.

I can say with a great deal of certainty that most users would rather pay more tokens than have only a 50% of receiving an item because they would still be able to control exactly how much they were spending per item and they wouldn't worry about having a streak of bad luck resulting in getting no items. Vending is already luck-based, so making it even less predictable would be frustrating for the majority of the users that profit from it.

I love this topic.

I also don't like any vending exclusive items, although I do tolerate them better when they're not ultra-rare. Still, I think having a cap and adding vending-exclusive items do send HIGHLY mixed messages. I sure was annoyed at the cap coming not long after the dreaded apple, back in the day... I pulled so many minions from GD it's crazy :x Vending already has a chance at some nice items from the shops they pull from, I don't think they need exclusives.

I know I'm just grumpy about anything chance-related, haha. But especially if said chance method includes flooding the site with cheaper items meanwhile attempting for the nice one. I'm of the (certainly unpopular) opinion I'd rather see items sit in the TS for longer with a 10,000+ tokens price tag than to have to take chances vending. :/

What is this thing called vending? :O I only vend when major drills asks me to because hoarding for bhh and token restocks is much needed. People still vend? How is that still a thing? :O

In all seriousness though, I agree about staff sending mixed messages. How is restocking supposed to be any worse than vending? At least restocking removes sp. At least restocking requires more time invested in playing on the site.

There should be an even higher limit on vends per day imo. You want your items? You camp out in front of the shops like you're supposed to do. Not clicking a button dozens of times a day. At least that way you'll actually lose less sp in the long run instead of getting 100X crap.

Meanwhile, there are people who long for things to spend their sP on. Instead of having specials in unpopular vending machines, why not put these items in the MC instead?

Agreed! I'm sure most users hoard tokens to some degree (myself included) so the usual cost of 300 tokens (or less) is basically pocket change. Currently, 20 Point Wizard Tokens are selling for less that 25k sP. So an item that costs 300 tokens in the TS costs less than 400k (after converting to sP) when bought directly from the shop during a restock.

Since TS items usually end up selling for several million sP (wearables going up to 5 mil or more), it wouldn't be unreasonable for items to be a little more expensive. I would love to see some nice weapons or really high quality wearables sit in the shop for a couple hours at the cost of 10k+ tokens rather than putting a sticker in there that sells out in 5 minutes at the cost of 75 tokens.

Regardless of price or sellout time, I would 100% rather see items in the Token Shop (or the Millionaire Center) than made vending exclusive.

I would definitely rather plunk down 10k tokens on an unlimited/regularly-restocked TS item than try to vend for it. Chance-related site features are the work of the devil.

Yeah, I don't really understand this either.

I thought the first step, of limiting the amount of daily vends - while initially a tough adjustment for some of us, ended up working pretty well. People started vending across more/all machines to mix it up, prices started to stabilize, etc.

Now with this newer thing of adding items exclusive to one machine, anyone who really wants those items spend their daily limit at that one machine. So not only does everything vended from that machine flood the market and deflate, but everything from the other machines start to disappear from shops. And aren't being replenished at the usual rate. Add to that the recent changes in restocking, which caused many of the hardcore restockers to throw up their hands and say 'fuck it' for the time being and, well. Prices of a lot of staple items, like food, books, plushies, weapons, etc. that are asked for in quests have shot up in user shops.

It just seems to be creating more of a problem for the economy than the ones they originally set out to fix when they limited vending. Which, although I was a bigtime vendwhore before that (and I was pissed when it happened, ngl) even I conceded pretty quickly that it produced great results, almost immediately.

So this just seems like a huge backwards step. And they're always looking for sp sinks so put them in the MC shop or something? Idk.

If only this were the case! There might be a small increase in a small proportion of items, but generally, there's still great swathes of underpriced items across the board. It's no coincidence that my favourite shops to restock in are the ones which aren't officially associated with any vending machines. They're not full of massively inflated items due to not having the "pressure valve" of vending; they still have a great deal of items selling for under 10k, but they have a lot more items of common/normal rarity that are better at retaining value than non-vended shops. Vending is by no means a necessary economic mediator.

I used to restock at Get Mugged all the time, but these days it's incredibly difficult to find anything of worth in there. There are items which used to sell for over 50k now sitting around because they're only worth 2k in user shops. I'm pretty sure item values began to slide about the same time as the vending machines were all reorganised, allowing all food to be vended from one machine. It certainly doesn't help that Celebration Gift is comfortably the most profitable machine to vend at since it gives out higher rarities than others; you do get a fair range of items still with some value, but it trashes the price of lower rarity food items.

The sooner something is done to reign in the effect of vending on the economy as a whole, the better.

I like vending, because I like using my wiz tokens for something and maybe getting items that I can't be bothered to restock (because restocking is boring now too), but I agree that releasing vending exclusive items is detrimental to the site and the economy, and it sends a lot of mixed signals because we now have vending limits that were supposed to discourage people from vending forever and devaluing the crud out it items. -.- Make up your minds please.

I must ask, why the rarity on vend-specific items ? I stopped vending because of it. Let's use the new ones as an example. There are three that are 10m, one is 25m, and the shoes are unbuyable. If I vend 1k items a day, and over five days 5k items, and I still hadn't gotten one, there is something very annoying and wrong. I'm not saying one should be popping out every five items vended or anything, but they should be a bit more common than that. I don't get why the site would push for such few items to retain such high value, while simultaneously forcing a large number of other items to become so devalued, at a more rapid speed than usual, that restocking is not only not needed... It's laughable.

"Buy from someone else." Why should I buy from someone else when I can get the item myself by doing the same menial task ? If this were something harder I could maybe understand this response.

"Vend them yourself." I tried and after days of nothing but watching rare item prices drop down to below 500sp, I got damn sick of it. Yes, I can frag, but that only takes a small portion of items that are under a certain value out of the system.

"You cannot own everything." No, I cannot, but I should be able to own items that are obtainable.

I'm a vending whore, I admit it. And vending is the main way I make my sP because I can't RS worth crap and I'm not on 24/7 to quest either.

The vending limit was a good idea, however the vending machine only items is messing up vending again. People are vending the stuff that is essentially worth nothing. And instead of fragging it, they either pawn it or attempt to sell it thus cutting prices and causing more of a problem with how many items are on site.

Frankly, I think retiring a lot of the lesser items that have no use whatsoever would possibly help stabilize a bit. Or even doing what was suggested and combining Vending machines to make it so only certain machines vend thing (kind of like we do now only imagine this: Combining GD and BC to have those items from each machine just vend in one.)

Grave Digger, Burning Chance, Shining Crane and Blue Moon are basically worthless at this point. The only reason I see people vending at GD and BM are for the Vending Machine specific items. I vend there for items to frag. Ocean Depths, Dragons Hoard and Frosty Claw are okay-ish mainly for people who are seeking wearables or trying to vend new items rather than RS them. Prize Get and Celebration Gift are more profitable it seems.

But there is one thing they all have in common: They all vend items that are seriously deflated and very, very old and should be retired.

I love vending, I don't want to see it go. Its relaxing to me and I enjoy it a lot as do others. But I truly feel retiring items would be a good start.