The Atebus Shop is still selling items that were there when I joined over ten years ago.

Jesus, seriously? I was only speaking from my own personal experience but if there are items still being sold after 10 years, that's a sign of major neglect, and makes me even more suspicious about nixing NPC shops when they obviously haven't been paying any attention to them.

I have a lot of thoughts on how the economy could be easily fixed but since this is about vending and I'm no economy expert I'll just leave it at this for now pffffft.

The clothing rack still has clothes from either 2009 or 2010 in there.

There's a bikini top that was literally my first wearable on Subeta still sitting in the Beach Shack and it's so ugly lol. Ugh.

I'm almost 90% convinced that the reason the economy here is so so bad is because common items aren't being retired and new, different items aren't being released in their stead. Even though they're 'common' and you can buy them in the main shops that doesn't mean they don't need to be retired. In fact I'd say that means they need to be retired just as much. There are thousands upon thousands of items on this site right now that I consider to be worthless for a number of reasons, but most of it lies with the fact that there are way too many in the system because not only do they not retire them from main shops after a period of time, they allow them to be vended constantly. There have been times when I've vended the same item practically three times in a row. Like... ????? Items don't need to be as exclusive as Token Shop items or SubQ items... but there certainly doesn't need to be thousands upon thousands in the system when the site only has 900 members active at any given time, on average. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here but I really don't get what's going on with the economy between the main shop issues, restocking issues, and vending issues.

I like vending, but I dislike the mixed messages we seem to be getting.

Vending is destroying the economy! -puts in a vending limit- -adds vending exclusive items which mostly encourage vending to said limit-

Vending is one of those things that's so ingrained in the site that people would rage quit if it was taken away.

I mean there are even site features -- the recycle beast, the fragmentizer, food donations every Fireside, and lots of achievements -- specifically designed to remove massive amounts of items from circulation. Things would start to fall apart if they got rid of vending because they've spent so much time compensating for the constant flood of items it produces.

Not that I really like vending, but it's been around since Subeta started. I think taking it away would fundamentally change the game, and I don't know how the community would handle that shift.

Removing a certain numbers of machines from the site =/= removing vending altogether. We don't need more than 3 or 4 vending machines. And we don't need them to vend pretty much every restockable item under r89

Vending has to be nerfed, because everything else is damaged by the influx of items.

- I didn't see the part about only removing a few machines, so I wasn't responding to that.

I do agree that vending shouldn't be incentivized any more than it already is. Vending is supposed to be its own reward, and people clearly don't need the extra motivation to do it.

I agree with this. Vending is something that makes Subeta unique compared to a lot of other pet sites that follow a restock-and-resell and/or play games design for users to earn points. It's certainly not super fun and interactive but it can be exciting to vend rare or expensive items.

There are plenty of ways to slow down vending, like lowering the cap or increasing the # of tokens per item. I don't think vending needs to be removed, but users also don't need extra incentive to use that part of the site. I think it would have been much better to release these items in the Crystal shop or Token shop.

I don't mind vending. I get a bunch of useless stuff to frag for crystals (that I can't use since the Crystal Shop is again being neglected).

However, I don't like that they're putting items into the vending machines so people basically need to vend to get things. I use vending machines as a quick way to get crystals. I'd rather not have it be something I need to do daily in hopes of getting a special item (or 5).

New items are lovely. But so are restockables (that aren't wearable). And SP sinks.

I like the idea of vending exclusive items. Its a unique and challenging way to get rare stuff. I don't like how much damage it does to item prices... I feel like if they are going to keep adding exclusive vending items the vending system will need a complete overhaul to handle it.

This is exactly my opinion on this matter. If you do something that increases how much vending people do, instead of letting all those items clog up shops and lose value, add incentive to get rid of them by fragging. I actually like vending machine spamming like this for a very selfish reason: I can buy tons of super cheap items and get so many crystals. If cool new items get added to the Fragmentizer shop, you bet I'm gonna be buying up a heck of a lot of those cheap items.

This isn't the best way to go about this, of course, since it isn't an sP sink. But hey, at least it helps keep items from losing too much value.

I think perhaps it's to encourage diversity in vending rather than vending in general, which seems better rather than worse.

Nah, instead of highly crashing the value on a narrow pool of items, it mostly crashing the value of a wider pool of items. Making less and less shops worthwhile to RS in.

Machines that aren't popular really should be culled

Most of the items the vending machines give out aren't repeatedly used. Quests are the biggest sink for the items. Whatever the vending machines give out, there need something that consume it nearly as much, or there will be an overload of unsellable item types.

If we need something that restocks regularly and costs wizard tokens, maybe the Oracle Token shop should adjust its purpose for that instead of restocking every midnight (and nobody knows it exists or gives a hoot to camp out exactly at that time, because things go poof in like 1 minute)

I'm not saying its the right idea, just that this was probably the idea behind it. IMO vending should be culled altogether, it really just puts too many items into a game with a player population that doesn't justify it. But that's a whole nother argument.

How come no one is addressing the actual elephant on site, that revamped wiz quests is giving out way more tokens than that are consumed. Im sitting on 78k tokens, my last big purchase was a pbow during its original run. Everything else esp token shop maxes at 300 tokens, BHH is super sporadic and vending i have no patience for. Vending keeps wiz token prices afloat, part of the problem can be solved by simply reverting to the original wiz time based reward system (with a tweak). 10 sec = 20 wk and sp, 15 sec = 15 wk and sp, 30 sec = 10 wk and sp?, more than 30 sec = 5 wk.

The original wiz time based reward was actually

Less than 30 seconds = 10 pointer

31 seconds and more = 5 pointer

I don't remember if the wizard ended up giving 1 and 2 pointers after long enough.

I think it's simple enough, and doesn't screw you over as much if you buy from your own shop.

Losing on 5 tokens bites less than losing on 15 tokens.

Oracle can stick to 15 pointers. We get her so rarely anyway.

idk, give a 20 pointer to people who complete all 15 quests + bonus 16th if it applies but yeah

OLD SCHOOL WIZARD WAS HARSH.

old school wiz didnt have ready made links to ss either! In b4 we had to have 2 or 3? ss tabs open, copy and pasting itself took longer than 10 secs that and we had to quit some quests coz it wasnt worth the combined sp and 15 tokens, some quests gave out items instead tokens and there was no guarentee 50 token at the last quest! We do not have any of those hassles now and i miss those 'you completed quest in xx seconds' tell ^^;

I don't remember it being on the site when I started over 10 years ago. I had to make all my sP through quests and restocking.

I agree with everyone saying that there are too many vending machines around. Ocean Depths is hardly a reward for getting to Omen Islands when worthless wearables can be obtained from other vending machines.

I have been on this site for nearly 8 years. sP sinks were discussed before my time, during my time, and probably after I leave. Point is, we've had the same discussions for around a decade and nothing has really changed.