Personally, not vibing with the idea of even more questgivers, but with fewer quests per questgiver. Too much running around the site is not really my idea of fun. That just feels like taking two dozen eggs and spreading them out across two dozen baskets, but you had them in two baskets that held a dozen each just fine. I'd say... maybe slow down just a touch with completely reinventing new features when old ones have been a working cornerstone of the economy for... how many years now has it been since you've cut quests from 30 to 15 (for GAs)? More than 10 years? Pretty sure it's close to 15 but idk. Been here for 20, cannot remember everything.

You're kinda running with a limited userbase here and making too drastic of a change will push people away because we are used to these systems that have been in place for so, so long. :/ I don't really want even less people on Subeta...

Reducing the number of actual quests & increasing rewards? Okay, I can sorta get behind that. If we're totaling more or less equal amount of profit from quests as we're getting now (item + sP + quest point reward), I don't think anyone would really mind doing less quests. Gives you time to do other things on the site, like make cool avatars, write pet stories, or work on your battle pet.

And yes, I would be disappointed if I earned less wizard tokens. Those make great gifts & they're great at getting you a bit of extra profit in a pinch.

Games are great, but they should be a supplement to quests instead of being on-par with them. I really don't want to play games when a lot of the ones we've had gave me motion sickness. :'| Cybil Sledding was criminally bad at making me feel like everything around me was sliding upwards after a whole 5 minutes of playing that game.

Lemme just check if I'm reading this right though: you're getting rid of quest points and having us earn rep points so we can buy quest shop items with those? Like we did during the Recycle Beast's recycling run? I'm... not sure now I feel about this. Iirc the whole point of quest points was nudging people into doing more quests. Instead of getting rid of them, how about having a chance of bonus QPs to the weekend quest bonus? Or give different bonuses to different questgivers. Wizard gives bonus tokens already? Saggi gives bonus sP? Great! Pete can have a chance to give you a retired food item. Carl can have a chance to give you a retired Keelhauliday item. Quentin can have a chance to give you a mage amulet. Library? Chance for a retired book. Toy? Retired plushie/beanbag. Duality & Maleria? idk, retired random holiday items? Ran out of ideas for these two.

[edit] Went off to try the new and improved Wizard quests and... oh boy. I like that they're streamlined and incredibly easy for mobile players. But. I really don't like how you don't even get to look at the shop search any more. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've found incredibly undercut items in user shops thanks to shop searching for quests and ended up buying them all up to turn a profit, or frag for crystals. Ditto for buying up restockable items for profit - I usually snap them from main shops while questing, but if something's selling for 2000sP in main shops, but 20 000 sP in user shops? I'm buying the main shop stock up and reselling it.

The items have hovers for me, but I can't search shops for them from there. It took clicking around to figure out that clicking on an item takes me to - an item info page. With 5 shop search results there. Which...... feels weird? "Use from vault" is annoying as the first option because I sometimes keep a stockpile of certain items for gifting, making scrolls, baking, etc. I do not want to get rid of those items. Having it pull from Inventory - Main Shop - User Shop - Vault (in that order) would be better. But it still means the people who restock are going to take a hit on profits if all the items are always available in main shops. (which... is something you were planning to do iirc??? Please correct me if I'm misremembering, I vaguely remember a rarity crunch mentioning this. Was that idea scrapped?)

tl;dr - Old quests are essentially a "push buttons, get money" activity. New quests feel like even more of a "push button, get money" kind of activity because there's less buttons to push.

I don't normally join in these conversations, even if I watch them, but I feel like this is something big that could be genuinely very good for the site. I've been here for almost 18 years, now. A little longer than that from an account that I deactivated when I was younger. Change is absolutely intimidating, and I can't say that I fully enjoy navigating the kumos site all that much right now as it's still new and unfamiliar to me as someone that's come back to be more active in this past year. It's taken some getting used to, and we all spend most of our time on the legacy site. So I understand why some people are worried about this big change - I get you!

But I also get that the site was coded by a much younger Keith, tweaked over the years as technology has marched on. It might look fine on our end, but he can see the stats and the code from the staff side of things. We're also in an age where cyber security is a major, major concern, on top of generative AI being a major problem that a lot of websites are facing.

That said, here's what I bulleted out for my thoughts.

• I love the reputation idea. Part of what I enjoy about video games with social links, bonds, etc is building up that relationship and feeling like I'm making an impact on the character involved. That it'll lead to unique interactions, maybe titles, better prizes, better permanent buffs, and access to higher tiers? Exquisite, love it, it's a really great way to engage with the setting of the site while events with plots are currently on hold for the immediate future.

• I don't personally have anything to contribute for Shinwa suggestions, but I really like what both Avel and Lea have suggested for it. It holds onto the unique aspect of her place in the NPC hierarchy, so to speak, both lorewise and mechanicwise, along with her inability to leave the shrine freely.

• The idea of including NPCs we have as quest givers offers the chance to flesh out Subeta more in a variety of ways. Circulating items with certain genres/themes going for them, giving an area of the map more attention (ie; Shengui Guo doesn't have a lot going for it right now, compared to other parts of the site), maybe even distributing a little bit of setting lore/info that you might not have been able to include in an event or has gotten buried in site updates. And we'd get to know the NPCs more as characters while also getting more things to do and read.

• I'm personally someone that enjoys doing the quests (although trying to keep Duality even in my achievements is a constant battle, but that's my own neurosis). Unless something happens for me IRL to prevent me from doing them, I tend to make sure that they're done by the end of the day and will event start them after midnight if my fiancee falls asleep before me, if I need to do Mori for that day; having the chance to be more mobile friendly by selecting some toggles and hitting the button would make it infinitely easier to do quests in bed or at work where all social media (including sites like Subeta) is blocked on the intranet. THAT SAID I feel like the number of quests being decreased is honestly, like, fine. We're going to be getting increased prizes in exchange.

-- HOWEVER, decreasing the amount of NPCs we can take quests from per day is a bit more of a bummer for similar reasons stated in the thread, especially with putting the reliance on RNG. My luck with RNG on this site is abysmal no matter how consistently I try to stay on top of doing something (see: Crypts, bathhouse, Oracle). I know that decision fatigue or the Sabrina eating pancakes meme might hit a lot of people, if you were to leave it up to them, but it could still be a viable thing to be able to select your NPCs for the day. Alternatively, the suggestion of assigning certain NPCs to days of the week might also work out. Have some NPCs (like the Wizard, maybe Duality with the AM/PM condition, Carl, Alexander) available all week and then assign others to days of the week. Sarah/Sagi Saturdays!

• It might be nice to have a shop search/account search link attached to the toggle options, for those that would prefer to do the searching themselves, rather than letting the quest do it for them. I'm not sure how best to implement that but it might be a nice touch. I think someone upthread mentioned a possible means of doing it but that was a few pages back.

• I do, genuinely, understand the concern of the prices of things after being purchased from the quest shops, bathhouse, crypts, etc and put into user shops and how that'll translate to new quests. Yes, fewer quests and an easier process to doing them would make it easier for newer or more casual players to get sP AND have access to the tiers, but I'm worried about that jump from unique shop to user shop and the price hike that comes with it. Even as someone that tends to at least stay around 10 mil as a base unless I splurge on something Big I find myself gawking at some of the prices that come out for things that I want that are from, say, the crypts or bathhouse.

• Keith mentioned this in the Discord: for everybody worried about their QP and whatnot: they're looking to be able to exchange that for a great rate into sP, so that it doesn't go to waste. I'm not sure about the rest of the currency, but we really ARE very bloated in terms of currencies on the site.

I think that's all that I can think of at the moment.

This feels absolutely like an "I'm bored so imma change something just because" kind of situation. There was nothing wrong with quests inherently. It's incredibly easy to click the item to search the shop, buy it and back up to give it to the quest giver. Honestly as soon as Kumos becomes mandatory, I'm bouncing. I despise Kumos with the heat of 1000 suns. I get wanting to revamp quests to a certain extent. Giving different and more quest givers would be rad but lowering the quests amount feels like it's just going to screw up Subeta's economy a lot more (which honestly its amazing that it still has one at this point.) I partially feel like the only reason it's even brought up in the first place is to feel vindicated when people agree and like the changes and only knock down people like who actually have worries and criticism, but it just gets brushed aside instead of actually being talked about. Feel like the site should be fixed as a whole before new implications are fixed. I mean the site seems to break more than a 2015-2023 Nissan. But what do I know?

Also, once the change is implemented (because let's be honest, it's going to) what's going to happen with all the wizard tokens we already have?

Really, really nervous about all of this. I get that change is necessary and that progressing is always a good thing, in hindsight, and is a natural thing that happens - but too much change, especially with something so fundamental to the site, which will upheave and alter the entire economy in general…that’s scary. And the more it happens, the more you risk alienating your most loyal longtime users.

I’m trying to remain open minded to all of this and give Keith the benefit of the doubt. But doing so is honestly…it’s getting harder and harder. I’m terrified of coming here one day to find an entirely different game. I’m now genuinely wondering if my days here are going to be numbered. And this really saddens me, because I love it here.

I would also be concerned about getting less wizard tokens. I try to always have at least 15k tokens in my vault just in case I feel like grabbing an Aemis when they restock in the Token Shop. And every time that I get over 16k tokens I do some vending so that I can fill up my shops with items to sell.

And, personally, I don't see the items we get from quests as "junk items", since they go into my shop so that people that need them for whatever reason (like for quests). I don't do fragging (when I need the crystals I buy them from other users) so none of my items go into that XD

Ah I don't normally post on these kinds of things because I really get anxious. I don't mean that to be overdramatic or anything, just realistically how I am. Anyways, my point is that I feel like those of us that are extremely anxious about change seem to be unheard. I guess I mean that it feels like it doesn't matter if we post or not because at the end, change is going to happen and be extremely drastic..unnecessarily..even if it's meant with good intentions. I suppose it just doesn't feel like good intentions. If that makes sense. Dunno. I'm just going to be really sad and disappointed to have such a vast change and nothing be the same to the point that there will be no nostalgic comfort left.

Other than the auto pricing feature, the only reason why I get CSC is really for the questing. Sure, sometimes a CW may catch my eye but auto pricing and questing is what is keeping me active every day. Not sure I will still participate if it's changed much more honestly. I get wanting to change things up to keep the site alive but as things are getting too expensive in the real world, I will have to seriously consider if I want to keep exchanging my hard earned money for virtual credits if the value is just not there.

Good luck, I know this can't be easy.

re: some of the comments about users banking currencies that they then don't use -- maybe there could be some kind of "Bank of Subeta" that could let us exchange currencies?

I'm definitely guilty of banking Wizard Tokens and Crystals for example, and I'd much prefer if I could exchange them for Quest Points.

I missed this in the previous posts but everything current in tier 0 is awesome. I was worried about the seasonal shop books that I have missed and missing them again because my level thing was too low.

I think this will add some longer term goals with daily incremental progress. The site needs goals like this - they encourage activity and give reasons for people to log in every day. Right now the quest shop is structured so that (at least for me) - I have a pile of quest points. Something new comes out. I immediately buy it. I go back to adding to my pile of quest points and never going back to the quest shop.

it is me, i am one of the people you speak of. i have been on this site for almost 17 years and quests are the bane of my existence. i never do all the quests. it is simply too much crap for my brain. and i remember when there were EVEN MORE quests. really, on my time here, i have tried my best to at the very least do shinwa and quentin + wizard quests. the last few years, i'm lucky if i even do shinwa. it's just not interesting to me. that being said, the implementation of weekend quests has helped.

's point about getting people engaged with the site resonates with me. if i was a new subeta user, i would not know what to do with all the dailies going on. and i personally am more likely to do the quests with the new reputation feature rewarding me for continuing to do them + the fact you would have to do less of them. i also think the new quest feature's increased usability is yet another motivator. i really like the idea of the tiers unlocking the quest items to be bought with sP. sP is easy to get. with the fewer quests it would be hard to keep quest points as an option.

don't get me wrong, i also understand why people WANT to do all the quests. it is the lifeblood of subeta for sure & people have been doing them for 20 years at this point. it would be a very significant change to get used to.

others have mentioned this already, but i was also wondering about how this would affect quest achievements. tiers might need to be adjusted?

I know you only have the wizard on for now but are there plans on maybe adding a few more NPCs? I think one NPC works with trying to test how the streamlining works but I think to get a good feel for how questing overall will feel, adding a couple more NPCs would be better. It's kind of hard to imagine how this will feel with multiple NPCs like what we have right now when we only have the one.

Any chance you could include lowest on the shop search with amount? I like restocking from quests and this would let me know whether to just click the speedy way or bother opening the shop search.

So I feel like I should chime in, as one of the 2% of questing nuts. I do them all, every day, and dear god is it a slog. I'm all for reducing the number and increasing rewards to compensate.

I remember last time quests were revamped, and this same discussion happened way back when, but the revamp then did wonders for questing and made it far more bearable. I really think we're overdue for another update. That said, I can see where a lot of the concern is coming from. The proposed limits just don't sound like they'll be able to keep the economy going. Maybe it would balance out if we go from 2% of users doing every quest to ~50% of users doing more quests. But idk those numbers sound really, really low. I feel like there's gotta be a happy medium between the current 150 quests, and...what like 20?

Also I hate QP they can go in the trash. And I think I have a vague memory of being the person who suggested them. The reputation system sounds like a fun and interesting alternative! I'm excited to see where that leads.

Are we going to be able to do the extra wizard quests again today. I keep checking but it says You've reached your daily limit for this quest. Try again tomorrow! I did them yesterday when you started this board and I keep checking but it won't let me do them again

i am also having this issue, just checked mine again

I just got a bunch of cws from wizard questing. O_O Was this supposed to happen?