• did Rumi's quests reset to zero? I started from 0 there despite having done quests already the other days

• in the middle of doing a quest for Mabel I got a "page expired" message. Refreshing didn't help.

• that green bar above the QG box is not readable anymore, it's way too bright, especially with white font against light green background (is that even required?)

• generally getting constant pop-up messages "page expired"

• still wish for a counter how many quests I've done for each QG on the quests main page, i.e. how many are left if any

• still not sure why the active elements are on the left side of the screen but the buttons on the right? But at least it's better than before now that the quitting button is smaller and below the complete button

• there has been said a lot about page layout already and I agree. There is too much space, boxes too big. I'd wish for a more compact layout.

i see it's not quite clear that this works and i need to refresh the quest page to be able to select the inventory option and finish the quest. i never leave/refresh the quest page in the current quests just open the shop page in a new tab buy the things buy and close the shop tabs and finish the quest.

this is just how i do my quests. doing the new quest really throws off my flow XD is there a way we could always select the inventory option or have preferences set to inventory? if refreshing the page that it auto selects inventorry if the items are there

Do these quests reset at midnight Subeta time or 24 hours after the last completion? I did mine at 11pm Subeta time on the 14th, but they still haven't reset today.

lol my post got caught in a site update and was eaten. 🙃

Shops have not restocked since 1.00 a.m. - is this unrelated or a Kumos programming victim?

... and our Quest Point count also seems to be a little off today ...

Yes, I know, I was the first to mention it in the morning before later making an edit to my post here, just in case.

My extra quests haven't reset for 2 days :(

Always exciting to see how these things develop. I really enjoy questing currently, but will admit this is largely because of achievements. I only have 60ish Mori quests to go before I’ve completed allll the questing achievements.

Once I’ve achieved that over the next week, I can definitely see myself feeling less motivated to quest. So the reputation system is a fantastic change.

I can’t decide - as someone with thousands of quests completed - whether I’d want this to be reflected in the new reputation system (ie starting on a higher tier). Starting from the bottom motivates me to climb the ladder again, but does that then undermine the time spent on quests before? I’m not sure.

I’m also a bit sad to see the number of quests decreasing so much. I enjoy taking half an hour or so to mindlessly complete them. Although I suppose if there’s even more to do on the site, perhaps this time will be taken up elsewhere.

Good to see the Quest Shop also getting a rethink. Even though I complete a lot of quests, it always seems like I have way too few points. I end up hoarding them (like wizard tokens) unable to decide what to spend them on first. So good to see this is being looked at.

I will also add - I still really love achievements and find them a massive motivator for me on the site. Hope to see these continue over on the new site.

thank you! I think I’m only lacking Mori’s quests as I’ve either got to complete them before 11am my time (tricky with work) or after 1am! So very close…

Hard agree on the achievements that you have to endlessly grind for. I absolutely love getting achievements and working towards them but there’s a few (snowballs are one of them) that I’ve not really attempted as it’s just loads of clicking for little reward. Really love the way you’re thinking about these.

Adaptable system sounds incredible and I’m so excited to see how it’s going to end up. As a new user I imagine there’s just SO much to do, I’d feel totally overwhelmed. I haven’t even got into battling because I feel like I’ve missed the boat with training and levels etc, so I can only imagine how newbies must feel. At least this is a way to guide through rather than just do thousands of quests in isolation and get to see your achievement count go up.

Dare I say, thinking about it, that actually it’d be fun to start from the bottom? I don’t know, I’d like to go through the new system for the first time, rather than jumping and getting a quick reward? I suppose I wouldn’t mind either way really. Quests are probably my main site activity when an event isn’t on (not really sure how that even happened) so I suppose the only thing I’d be concerned about is them being over very quick and then I wouldn’t know what else to do. But I’m probably overthinking that.

New achievement section sounds brilliant. I always support any and all new achievements so it gives me something to aim for. A way to show them off on your profile is gonna be fantastic.

Are the medals the trophies on your profile? If so I was just thinking about them the other day! I can’t even remember getting some of them! Would adore seeing these back again. The avatar borders have served a similar purpose for me so far.

Top work on all this Keith. Subeta has been part of my life for a long ol’ time, I love that you’ve still got the enthusiasm to keep it not only alive, but thriving. Thank you.

I'm looking forward to this change, honestly. Questing currently isn't that hard, but the fact that there's so many of them (150 regular quests/day w/ gold account, not counting blue building/battle/etc) paired with how many quest points I'd need to get everything I want in the shop is a lot. It's intimidating to even try because the gap just seems so big.

The reputation system seems interesting, and the idea of different ways to catch up feels like it'll also take some pressure off the gap in the new system for me. Obviously there will still need to be some sort of effort to get to the tiers I want in each NPC shop, but the fact that there's a lot less quests per day with bigger rewards makes it much more approachable.

As for the flow of the current test, I overall like it! So far things make sense to me, and I do like the little dialogue blurbs each NPC gives. It feels a lot easier than before while still feeling like the same spirit of the old quests.

For a couple pieces of feedback:

I see what people mean about the scrolling. It's not terrible, but it's one of those things that could see some improvement? 's mockups are solid to me!

I also like the idea of just being able to purchase everything on one screen, but I also enjoy the current system of having shop search buttons below the items. This way, if something is in the restockable shops than it is the user shops, then I can buy up extras to resell later. I think the item hovers are still a work in progress if I remember, but if they have the shop search function like the current site has, then that'll be good enough for me.

Lastly, on the /quests page, there's also a lot of scrolling. I still like the NPC dialogue here, but it's also the same ones repeated on each NPC's individual page. Maybe condensing or giving a short 1-2 line description of the quest type could help make it more concise? ie requesting [type of item] for [reason], [rewards] for exchange. Like the Hustler could be "Turn in retired Subeautique items for a chance at a great reward...but you might get hustled instead!"

I don't mean that in a "I'm not reading all of that" way but more of "the flavor text could be a bit more impactful if we get to see it once". (And you may have already said something on this being a placeholder/etc, but just in case!)

I know sidebar widgets were brought up in the past, and I don't remember everything from that thread, but if a quest widget like we currently have is something that could be added, that'll totally take care of the scrolling on the /quests page for me.

But overall, I'm happy with the proposed changes. I've done a few quests (when I remember to) on kumos and it just feels so much easier. I definitely wouldn't mind spending 10 minutes on a regular basis to go through as many as I can. The scrolling is more of a QOL thing, but on the whole the process is a lot less intimidating/repetitive and I'm excited to see how things get implemented!

ok i just read through this thread after questing with the new system for the first time today and i have some thoughts! change is always hard and as humans, we're very resistant to it, which is so funny when life is always changing, isn't it? i'll start the thread with my little UI complaint that i didn't see anyone else mention, though i might have simply missed it: the main subeta navigation dropdowns at the top are layered underneath the npc quest box so getting to other pages from the quest page is a little annoying. i assume this is just a z-indexing issue and hopefully an easy fix.

i will be the first to admit i have never been fond of the sheer number of legacy quests subeta offers. of course, no one has to do all of them in a day, but it often feels like to be able to afford virtually anything, if you don't do them all, you won't be able to. not to mention, if you have a gold account, it feels like a waste not to do them all. i am all for a reduced number of quests. that being said, after trying out the new quest system, it's so much easier that i can't say i would mind the same number of quests either! or fewer quests per npc but a lot of npcs to choose from. i love that idea!

p.s. to those reading, did you know you can go to an npc's shop and then change the number at the end to get a sneak peek of all the npcs on kumos right now? there are npcs from numbers 1-24 currently. 👀 no telling if they'll all have quests tied to them and sorry to keith for snooping but i thought this was exciting to poke around in.

anyway, i vastly prefer this new quest system to the old one. not sure how i feel about the quest shop dealing in sP as opposed to quest points, but it's always hard to get a feel for things until you get to use it properly, so i'll have to reserve my thoughts on that until i get some more questing in. one thing i am curious to know is how our current crafting system(s?) (which i admittedly have literally never used at all ever in my more than 10 years on subeta) will be refactored and how it will tie into the questing system as well. curious to hear keith's & other user's thoughts on this.

i do have some thoughts on the "hoarding" quest points / wizard tokens / etc. discussion, which is to say: i think maybe some of the point is being talked around than really picked up on. my experience in game development isn't in browser games, it's in video-games, but this is something we see in video-games, too — users hoard money and items to save them for "when they really need them," and maybe they do end up using a little for a really tough boss fight, but it's nowhere near what's actually required, and by the time the credits roll, they've still got a pile of 91 potions and 5000 special arrows they never used. obviously, there are still things we who are saving up our QP/tokens/crystals/etc. want to buy, there's a reason we're saving them, and sometimes those things drop without warning and we don't have enough. if i am not mistaken, keith isn't trying to take away your hoard of things so you can't afford these drops, he wants to eliminate the need for you to have to hoard things for years and years only to potentially miss out on stuff entirely because it's a poorly designed, unfun gameplay mechanics (no offense meant to past keith and other programmers who designed the system, lol). there are much better and more exciting ways to introduce things like godly weapons and other valuable items but still limit their availability, but you have to build them into a new system from the start.

i hope i'm right about this, and if i am i hope that helps ease some of the fears & anxiety about that specific thing i saw a lot of as i was reading through the thread. obviously i might be talking out of my ass here bc i misunderstood, but that's the impression i got reading through the prospective changes he laid out.

Keith re profiles on Kumos. Stealth is ignored and clicking view all pets/friends etc goes to 404

Extra time for extra quests today :-) . Happy to see, shop/account search have been added to the items - why do we have to click on them and not just do the hover thing to see everything?

I still need to scroll down after a lot of empty page to start the quest (where the Back button is - doesn't everybody use mouse or tab to go back?) and then see the items needed - if it all were viewable within the space it is now, "quest has started" line, which pushes everything further down, wouldn't be necessary to know it has, rofl. This is unnecessary and I kind of feel like the site thinks I'm an idiot and need to be led by the hand - of course it has started, when I clicked "start"!

I feel, the progress bars don't need to be so prominent, nor does the NPC's pic. Also, as others have said, the flavour text needs too much space.

Already the Kumos header is broader than on legacy, so everything starts further down the page.

Having to refresh the page to be able for "use from inventory" to be select-ed/-able, is contraproductive to speeding things up.

Also chime in with others, that it would be nice to see on the all quest NPC page, how many quests have been done.

btw. Maybel again asked me for a Caffeinated Wabbit - one of the items that got eaten from my vault, this seems not to have restocked since then despite being common rarity only. It's not expensive in usershops right now, but I'm trying hard to rebuild the previous suplies - which is tough enough, even if they are available.

so far everything seems to be functioning smoothly, but i wish the main quest page would show you how many quests you've done for each quest giver / if you've hit their daily limit.

also i'm sure this is just sort of temporary right now but the quest blurbs are quite long and take up a lot of space; i think there should be less blurbage going on on this main quests page, so we have more of an overview of all the different quest givers at once and don't have to scroll quite so much to actually reach the "view quest" button.

A. There aren’t any of the pants in shops /at all/ B. Why is it asking for an item worth 2.5m? So far the max I’ve seen returned was ~1.1-1.3m, and recently only ~500k which caused massive losses. Is this quest just a money sink? Couldn’t complete the quest to find out. XD I was very grateful when I boneheadedly clicked ‘complete’ that it didn’t purchase the item even though I couldn’t complete it! Thank you for that. <3

The Hustler recently asked me for an item that was selling for 2mil+ in user shops and then another item worth 600k or so. I happened to have a spare of the 2mil+ item in my vault so I completed the quest and got... a little over 4mil IIRC. I've also lost sP on what feels like half his quests. I never know what to expect, it keeps things interesting!

In general I am very much continuing to enjoy these new quests. They're so streamlined and nice.

I really like 's mock-ups and I do hope that the feedback on the layout will be taken into consideration! I understand the desire for the NPC image to be fullsize but needless scrolling is just one of those web design pet peeves that a lot of us have, especially when it's a page that we visit so often and the most important parts are at the bottom. I use Stylus with Chrome so I just quickly made a new style for any URL that starts with kumos.subeta.net/quests and I set a max height for the image. Since there isn't, like, a specific class or anything for the image that I could use, I was worried it might mess up images on other pages so I didn't just use the new CSS snippets on Kumos, which is kind of a bummer. But anyway, I like the page SO much more with the NPC image smaller.

I also have to echo the requests for the main quest page to show how many quests we've done and how many we have left, as well as something like short descriptions of the quest for that page instead of repeating the NPC flavor text. It seems kind of strange that the page displays the NPC's flavor text like that.

I also wanted to give my feelings on the way it sounds like quests and what quests are available will be handled, with people choosing what quests to prioritize and do. I believe it was mentioned earlier on this topic that some people are bad at decisions and would prefer for what quests are available to be decided for them, rather than choosing daily. I am one of those people, lol. I had actually kind of liked the idea of rotating quests (as long as it's not RNG-based) because I feel like it would encourage us to do various quests instead of just sticking to our faves always and forever. I also thought it was cute to think that some NPCs might need our help only on some days or something to that effect. Part of my hopes for the reputation system is that it might get me more invested in Subeta lore and some of the characters here. That's why I was so excited about the possibilities of different dialogue and such, feeling like we're befriending NPCs, etc. I guess I can just choose to try to do quests for a variety of NPCs, but I'm a little worried I may end up feeling like I have to choose between that or really working toward items I want. It gets especially intimidating when things like battle items and books are considered, since I like to try to work on my pets in that way as well.

But I also do get the argument for us picking and deciding what we want to prioritize. It's just hard to be excited about the idea of much 'specialization' on Subeta because my priority with items is pet treasure chests. It's like, I am obviously a pet person, so theoretically I should be interested in the quest NPCs that would be more geared toward pet people... but I am one of the many people whose pets serve as virtual representation of an OC totally disconnected from the Subeta universe, so I don't actually use a lot of 'pet' themed items with their treasure chests. And like many of the people who use pets for OCs, I have a very eclectic variety of pets that need all kinds of treasure chest items...

I'm still excited for the overhaul but I feel more cautious than before, because I can say with pretty much absolute certainty that I will end up indecisive and regretting some focus or another, lol. So I'm glad there are plans to allow other users to 'catch up' and everything, and I'm hoping that it won't feel too overwhelming.

I have mixed-to-positive feelings about the changes, but I just worry that balancing is going to be a nightmare. It's easy to say that you can just rely on other people to grind the reputations you don't want to do, but that kind of assumes that there will be proportional numbers of people doing each reputation, especially if you have to make judgment calls about which repuations you work on. I suppose I'm just worried about its potential punishing of people who don't aggressively specialize.

Like, for example, I enjoy battling (+ reading books to my trained pet), feeding my gourmand pet, collecting treasure chest items for OCs and 'an ode to things I like' pets, doing item collections (like plushies and beanbags and minions), and customizing my avatar; I don't necessarily love the idea that I have to make a judgment call about which of these I want to pursue, and then just hope that enough other people are doing the ones I'm opting out of in order to make the other items reasonably affordable. If any NPC's rewards are more initially desirable than any other's, even if it balances out with time, I worry about the resultant knock-on effect of needing to sink months into trying to juggle reputations, especially with the lowered quest-per-day-per-npc cap. This goes double especially if multiple questgivers' higher-tier rewards include (for example) food -- and I can't imagine there won't be some overlap, considering there are only so many types of usable item -- because... well, better hope you're not doing the same quests as everyone else doing a gourmand pet, because it's going to take you three months to build up the rep that fewer people chose to do and you'd better hope nothing else drops in that time that you could have been grinding for instead!

(See this past year's Morostide items having such a wild and steep difference in pricing between functionally-identical items because of uneven groupings. Admittedly, choice of reputations is much more end-user-determined, yes, but a lot of people aren't going to, or going to want to, consciously coordinate and try to determine which quests are the most optimal.)

Basically I'm just not sure about introducing such a steep opportunity cost that punishes not focusing on one thing. Part of why I like Subeta and why it's been so sticky for me is that it IS so easy for me to dabble in lots of different areas and pick up new collections and goals. I'm sure this is something you're keeping in mind and trying to juggle, so this isn't meant to be doomsaying, I just didn't see this concern raised as much when I skimmed through the conversation thus far and wanted to toss my two sP into the ring.

... Now if only Kumos weren't so glacially slow. (Again, I realize you're working on this and have a lot of plates spinning and are working on it, so I'm just ribbing!)

So I'm not just griping: I like the reputation system at least in theory as a mechanic, I like the increased focus on a variety of NPC personalities, I don't mind fewer quests with better rewards, I don't mind the idea of nixing quest points, and I'm generally all for things that make the game more accessible and engaging for more players. I like mindless questing but even I don't do all of my quests every day or even the majority of days.

• while doing Rumi's quests, I got an error message (see screenshot). As you can see, it's barely readable, neither is the green message bar (white font against light green background). Also not sure what went wrong. I made my choice and clicked "complete quest", then this came up. None of the items were in my inventory.

• while generally the site layout is coming together, that QG box at the top is way too big. There is not much information in it that would require all that space. The QG could be a head shot which would half the height of the box already. Why not only have that on the quest main page, but as soon as you hit "start a quest" button it's reduced to a smaller bar.

• Maleria should only ask for scrolls that can be made at the Secluded Shrine, not challenger loots. Also the payout doesn't match the costs at all... Not sure if Maleria should ask for scrolls at all, my suggestion was more directed at Shinwa, at quests that should require more effort.