It's already been explained why weapons tend to be lower tier than what you're actually fighting, if I'm not mistaken. someone somewhere mentioned it I'm sure, in my skimming of the thread the other day.

But hey, our mileage varies on what we define as fun, which is subjective at best. I prefer looking at what should be addressed objectively. But that's just me. That's not to say you don't address some good points. But we're probably gonna have to agree to disagree on some others.

Keith, I suspect that you might take what I'm about to say as "Sophie doesn't like anything ever", but I would greatly dislike that kind of updates. I feel like it would exacerbate the issue you have right now, which is that people are battling new challengers 10 times at launch and then, not touching it again.

Splatoon 3 did that from launch and it was an horrible decision in my eyes. It worked with a format of four three-month seasons and launched a lot of stuff on Day 1 of the season (new maps, new weapons and their free equivalent to their battle pass) but there was almost nothing else added during the three month period.

Meaning that, once you were done engaging with the new weapons and maps, there was nothing special to expect and naturally, the community was more inclined to discuss what was about to come with the NEXT SEASON PASS, rather than stay engaged with the current content.

Splatoon 1 was the most played game on my Wii U, Splatoon 2 was getting there on my Switch and then...Splatoon 3 was just gutting. It wasn't fun, because once you had the new things drop, you knew that there would be nothing new coming for months. And, if there is nothing of interest coming, you just go...elsewhere.

I respect what you're trying to do. The idea of having something that's more exploration and RNG battling wise is interesting - it does remind me of Neoquest II on Neopets, which was a masterpiece.

I think we really should have that kind of experience on Subeta - the small RPG vibe is something that none of our current games encompass. The issue is that it shouldn't replace our battle system - but it could compliment it by having weapons rewards attached to it by achievements and gameplay features.

A lot of battlers on Neopets did play NeoQuest II because it did drop good weapons upon completion, things that were useful for battlers without being the actually BattleDome they had.

There is a lot of potential in that idea you had, but more as a complement to our battling system.

More accurate weapon hovers for scaling weapons. There is a world of difference between what some of these weapons do at different tiers and if you're not someone who has the tier effects memorized you need to seek out other players' guides. (I think 's guides should be integrated into the site at this point because they're that good)

More clarity on post-10 drops for opponents. They drop mod crystals, tomes, amulets, etc, but the only way to find out this information is again, through other users' guides.

A way to filter by icon types and effects in armory. I have a bunch of weapons in my armory and being able to more easily sort them based on finding an earth blocker would be super nice, but also super helpful for newer users trying to figure out how to make what they have work.

And the most controversial one imo, a way to see what opponents we're missing at a glance (preferably with tiers). There are hundreds of battle opponents at this point, and trying to cross reference what I have unlocked vs what I need to unlock is annoying as hell. Reducing confusion on how to get more opponents as well as what opponents to go for could help new users prioritize what to purchase/unlock.

That is precisely why I said my comment had nothing to do with your post. My comment was about the ability to earn late game weapons without having to spend billions.

Before any details were revealed, I expected T11s to be able to beat Supreme Hydragellos, so I was disappointed to see that he was challenging for my T13 pet. Even though it took me hours and hours of battling in the war of 2022, I preferred the global boss since it was more equitable for all players. Again, my previous comment had nothing to do with your post. It was simply to demonstrate that you don't have to spend billions on weapons. Time is the real investment - training, battling and waiting.

It may be worth noting that the God weapons are Tier 11. There's like five Tier 12 weapons on site, if memory serves. I can't remember any Tier 13 weapons. I like it that way, it wouldn't be fun to play if you only got the good stuff at Tier 13.

So the most difficult boss challenger dropping a Tier 11 weapon is dropping appropriately. I can certainly see the debate on whether it should be the hardest boss, mechanics to fight it, what's needed to beat it being easier or harder to obtain ect. But the Tier of the weapons won from it are fine.

I see the point of lower tier dropping for harder challengers being an issue in general though. If most people "need" a Tier 10 to beat a challenger and a true Tier 8 weapon is the reward, the mismatch could be demoralizing. I'm saying true Tier 8 because there are some weapons you keep using for the life of your pet even though they are technically much lower Tier.

But that's the thing, you [I]do[/I] only get the good stuff at tier 13 (speaking specifically about the maniacal combos and the new sword). And yes you're right, it doesn't make it fun to play.

Few more unrelated thoughts about godlies. The fact that the godlies are t11 just makes me want to see them available even more. I'm all in for either devaluing or making them stronger and t12/13 but still bringing them back. In my honest opinion it makes no sense to have items SO old and so scarce. Add the godly box to the loyal member achievement for being here for 10/15/20 years idk (also add the option to select an item from the boxes I hate the fact they are random) Maybe add a fanciful box to the Strong Pet achievement for having 4000 strength. Add boxes to the battle shop, make them so you can only buy one of them. Or make achievements such as "get X amount of Impossible tokens"

That's because this time the Hydra was not a global boss. It had to change so it didn't kill the site outright. Before as a global boss, you didn't have to be T13 to get a Core, it was doable if you were T6. Sure you'd have a fuck ton of losses, but if you could do it, all the more power to you.

As for the godlies, I would like it if the godly boxes could be earned. Why on earth was that not considered for a 10th win achievement or something for the Hydra? Or make it 15 or 20, but it was an opportunity to do it. And it was completely ignored. Earning a box somehow through means of battling is the better way to go than spending 9 billion sPs for it. Put it in the battle shop for a one time purchase of 1000 Imp tokens or something. Do SOMETHING.

Yeah, I'm not thrilled about it either tbh. Having been around for so long and being used to the global boss format, this change was fine but if we could get it back to the way it was before without crippling the site, I'd say bring it back. It's just more exciting.

A little late to the party, but I'm just chiming in to say that battling and restocking are the two things I do the most on here, and have for the past nearly 20 years (in January for me). If battling were to become random or "Major Drills style" where you have to complete a list of objectives to be able to challenge an opponent or increase your chances at a specific one rather than just being able to fight them whenever...that would be the end of it for me. I, and a lot of others I'm sure, do not have the time to invest into completing objectives or hoping to encounter the specific opponent I want to or need to kill. RNG in the battling system outside of what we already have would not add to the fun, and would actively discourage it for me.

I know that in the past the Battle Community was called "the most spoiled" subset of Subeta, and I get that to a degree. But please don't fundamentally change the way we encounter or challenge opponents, at least without an option to revert to the legacy format. It would be neat to see more focus on making battling less of a grind for newbies to get into, as was suggested previously, by reducing training times (or increasing the number of stats Training can give?), making certain opponents scale with pet tier (with subsequent reward increases), and more dynamic than "click this button 20x and oop, you got critted so you died, pay 30k to heal and try again".

Again, this is coming from a very, very old hat that's been on here since the site's infancy, grasping onto one of the last remaining things that has not become unrecognizable from when I started on here as a teenager.

Spitballing ideas for dealing with OG godlies

1. New achievement that requires you to win 500k or 1mil battles, boom, you get a box.

2a. One-time claimable box in the Battle Shop once you earn 1000 Imp tokens OR 2b. Each OG godly is in the battle shop for 1000 Imp tokens, but the catch is you can only pick one. Once claimed, the godlies disappear. This takes away the gacha aspect and allows some freedom of choice.

3. Crystal shop, slap a box in there, same thing as 2a where it's claimable one time for an account rather than stocking just 10, for 1 million crystals. It always sits there til you get the crystals to buy it.

4. Do 1 million battle quests, get a box

5. Those cheated godlies that are known about, take them off the cheater's account(s) and throw them in the Free Shop next time it happens. May the odds be in your favor of pulling one.

6. courtesy of : Achievement where you hit the current stat cap of 35k, you get a box.

suggest your ideas as well. Try to consider that battling is somehow involved--even if it is kind of a stretch (the crystal shop i mentioned because you can frag so much crap you get from battling). Also, if these were to be implemented, please remove the gacha aspect. Let us choose our weapons.

I like all of these! I'd even say that in 2b, don't make the other godlies disappear when you buy one, just have them all for 1k tokens, 1 purchase per account for each godly. 6. Longtime Member achievement prize. Fanciful box for 10 years, godly for 15 or now 20 years 7. Regular hustler, AoN rarity.

That's kind of something I was thinking about too, but wasn't sure if that'd be too OP, for 2b.

The other idea i was thinking is remove the gacha element but then make the godlies non-tradeable. Could be controversial, but then there's no more concern about how many of each goes out if they can't leave the account they're on. Cause the loyalty box idea could only work if the godlies were non-tradeable, like a voucher you can get from the loyalty box. Cause the point of the loyalty box is that you cannot sell whatever you pick out of it. It's meant for you and only you. not something to profit off of.

I was thinking not so much as a loyalty box but as a one time thing for reaching a big milestone. And I wouldn't worry about making each of them available for purchase at the battle shop. If anything limit 1 purchase every six months or something. Or, since we're brainstorming, what about a "special battle shop", invitation only. Could work like the subeautique, you get invited, buy 1 item and have to earn another invitation. You could then add an invite to the loyalty box, have them as achievement prizes, etc etc

Glad you are limiting the 1k battle token option. You don't want to know how fast my army can earn 1k Imp tokens. While not common, I do think there's enough armies out there that it should be considered.

Also the hit the cap one. I have 5 pets I keep just under cap. Guess it wouldn't matter if it's not a tiered achievement.

Fun fact: I got my O-staff from the crystal shop eons ago. It was killed as a returning possibility almost as long ago. But hey change is in the air so maybe it can return.

I'm also very late to this discussion and maybe it doesn't matter anymore, but I especially like the idea of somehow facilitating the beginning of a battle career. I joined subeta more than 17 years ago and trained my first battle pet probably just as long, but only actively battled in the last about 5 years. Before that, I was never motivated to find out more about the whole system, the clicking felt tedious (still does a lot of times actually...) and my pet felt like it was too weak all the time. What changed that? The battling community! I really love how users help each other with advice, but also items borrowing or even gifting etc. So I was thinking, why not make that an official part of battling? We could have some sort of system with godparents, where more experienced battlers can pair/be paired with less experienced ones and help them understand the mechanics of battling. Basically we already provide such a system via the forums, but people who don't use the forums completely miss this. And if there was an official version of this, maybe some sort of reward for both parties could be implemented. Like EXP gains for both if they reach certain goals that the trainee could realize with the help of their godparent or maybe others can think of better options?

Also yes, please make it easier for pets in lower tiers to progress! Maybe make them earn more EXP from opponents in lower tiers that when those are battled by higher tier pets? Or make the battles less tedious in some way, requiring less clicks? And please allow pets being assigned their own battle set. I know there are a lot of battlers that don't care about this and have huge armies, but as a more casual and super lazy battler, I can say that I don't even bother battling with my less strong pets (one of them being tier 8!) because I just hate how much clicking and changing sets for each battle it involves.

And completely unrelated, going to add that as someone who currently focuses mainly on battling and has very little time, I would absolutely hate having to wait until being challenged by opponents. But I think enough other people have already stated that they dislike this idea.

Oh yeah, 1k is pretty much a joke for anyone with armies. xD But I feel like those of us with armies are outliers. Your average user appears to only maintain one battler, maybe two at most. But because armies exist, putting a hard cap on it has to be done to keep it fair.

I was contemplating if "maybe" if the 35k stat cap achievement could have tiers. Like, the first box you get for your first capped. Then the second tier is for the second capped. But I fear that could exacerbate Keith's concerns of cheaters. And I can't say I blame him since pets can be adopted in and out, which could easily lead to abuse of boxes. The current penalty isn't harsh enough.

Yeah that's why I think if it's going to the battle shop it should be 1 purchase per account per weapon. And I assumed the battle cap achievement was suggested to reward it just once, just like most the achievements that reward high tier weapons. Then it doesn't matter if it takes you 5 minutes or 5 years to gather the tokens, you just can get 1 of each anyways :)

Either per weapon, or a singular box, it's all about keeping a balance. Personally if box, then remove the gacha element. Because of armies, I definitely foresee problems with allowing each godly to be 1k Imp tokens a piece, even if they are one per account. Because they're currently tradeable/sellable. So making it a singular box (but being reasonable and removing the gacha element) per account would be better, or if the blasted gacha element has to stay, then having your pick of one godly out of the checks notes on number 8 possible choices outside a box is reasonable imo.

I dunno how anyone else feels about the idea of making them non-tradeable weapons. It locks them behind a feature that people don't necessarily like, but if you are someone who battles and also does the wardrobe, it benefits you at least in that regard to have as many KWands as you want since you can't profit off them anyways.

Game design is hard stuff. xD

I'd be good with multiple gods tied to account. But I absolutely hate selling/trading and I'm not broken hearted I'm not wearing god weapons. I feel I'm the farthest from representive as you can get from how a typical person plays the site.